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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Jadest v's lloyds


jadest
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Think yourself lucky - my LTSB case is stayed untill March next year!! Doing my best to get it lifted though.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Unfortunately its been stayed (suspended) by the court pending the outcome of the test cases that are due to be heard in the Mercentile court. The idea is that a test case will set a precidant for all the other simular bank charges cases - in other words it'll sort the issue out once and for all. The courts are being completely clogged up with all the bank charges cases lately so you can see why they're doing it, but unfortunately there is very little chance of the banks actually showing up - they will more than likely settle before the trial can take place, as they always do. Even more so becouse the test cases will be in the multi-track and they would have to disclose sensitive information about their charging systems. How they're allowed to abuse the court system like this I'll never know.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hiyall,

If a case gets resolved through the mercantile court, ending up in decision say, similar to the credit card situation where the recommendation was for a max charge of £12, would that mean that we would all be limited to claiming back each of the charges minus that amount? I hope my question makes sense...

Bye for now,

Cat

29 March 2006 Data Protection Act Request sent for ac 1 (then she got a bit distracted but got another charge so...)

27 May Prelim letter sent for ac 1

27 May Data Protection Act Request sent for ac 2 & 3

21 June Prelim Letter sent for 2 & 3

14 July LBA sent with schedule for ac 1 & 2 & 3

7 August MCO filed – defence expected 10 September

11 September defence filed - signed Sean Copping

12 September AQ form received

18th September AQ sent back to Lambeth Court and copy sent to solicitors both recorded delivery

13th Feb 2007 Court Date Set

15th Feb Reclaimed Money is in my bank Account

 

Cat's opinions are those of a nurse and most definitely, definitely not those of an accountant or solicitor, although she was always quite good at sums and elocution.

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no, iv read this before somewhere.....its to do with them originally charging £30 plus pounds in the first place , and not being able to justify ANY of it, therefore you can legally claim it ALL back. the new charges i think are now classed as "fair" and therefore dont have to be justified.

it was something like that anyway.

on and on it goes!!!........:???:

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Hi Cat,

 

No, I doubt it. That was the OFT ruling and it was a bit of a fudge. They still said that £12 was likely to be unlawful. If the case was ever heard (v. unlikely IMHO) and the banks lost, they would only then be able to charge a genuine pre-estimate of their actual loss, ie, however much it costs for the postage of a letter and maybe a proportionate allowance for the maintainance of their computor systems. I would say they're actual costs could be no more than £2.50.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi Jadest,

 

Thats good news with the phone call. Hope they keep to their word now!

 

I'm at a similar point in that got my AQ in on Monday and received a copy from SCM today.

 

On their AQ did they put they intended to call any witnesses? On the one I received they have put '1' but it seems strange for them to put that if they plan to negotiate?

 

Matt

11/07/2006 - First request sent

21/07/2006 - Standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

25/07/2006 - Letter before action sent

01/08/2006 - Second standard 'sod off' reply from Lloyds TSB

03/08/2006 - Claim started through moneyclaim for sum of £1756.26

04/08/2006 - Claim issued by moneyclaim

09/08/2006 - Claim served by moneyclaim

06/09/2006 - Defence entered

25/09/2006 - AQ returned (no Lloyds AQ yet)

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On their AQ did they put they intended to call any witnesses? On the one I received they have put '1' but it seems strange for them to put that if they plan to negotiate?

 

Probably scare tectics, designed to make you go weak at the knees and faint at the prospect of facing a WITNESS:eek: in court!

 

Why not ask them for the name of the witness, profession, employer and area of speciality?:D

 

Elsinore

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Yeah, they put that on every A/Q. I wonder if its the same witness:confused:!

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Yes mine said one witness too... I think it has to scare tactics but I will contact them again, on Monday, to ask who the witness is, profession etc.

When they tell me I will post it on here!:)

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Progess

 

first letter sent 10th June

Received reply 20th June

Second letter sent 30th June

Revieved final response 7th July

Filled in claim on line 30/07/06

Recieved Acknowledgment of service 4th August

Defence submitted 6th September

Allocation Questionnaire due back 20th Sept

Sent my Allocation Questionnaire back 10th Sept

Got there copy of Allication Questionaire 23rd Sept

Court date set for 25th Jan '07

 

 

 

Paragon Finance Progress

Sent first letter 24th August 2006

No reply so second letter sent 10th Sept 2006

Received letter back saying they are going to investigate my claim

Offer made by Paragon for full ammount plus interst! Rusult!!!

Cheque recieved *Won*

 

 

 

Any thing I write on this site is only an oppinion as I am not a solicitor or legal whizz!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi all,

I called court today they said that the case has been allicated through small claims track and I will here from them soom re: court date. I then called SC&M and surprise surprise they have still not had any intructions from LloydsTSB. I guess I will here nothing till I get court date or until court date is approaching.

this prossess is so long and drawn out... and in the mean time lloyds are calling me every day for the £200 that I am overdrwn due to the charges they took out this month.

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Progess

 

first letter sent 10th June

Received reply 20th June

Second letter sent 30th June

Revieved final response 7th July

Filled in claim on line 30/07/06

Recieved Acknowledgment of service 4th August

Defence submitted 6th September

Allocation Questionnaire due back 20th Sept

Sent my Allocation Questionnaire back 10th Sept

Got there copy of Allication Questionaire 23rd Sept

Court date set for 25th Jan '07

 

 

 

Paragon Finance Progress

Sent first letter 24th August 2006

No reply so second letter sent 10th Sept 2006

Received letter back saying they are going to investigate my claim

Offer made by Paragon for full ammount plus interst! Rusult!!!

Cheque recieved *Won*

 

 

 

Any thing I write on this site is only an oppinion as I am not a solicitor or legal whizz!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Has any-one who had to return there allication questionnaire around the 20th Sept had a court date or heard from SC&M about a settlement? I am so fed up of there delaying techneques surely the court should be able to do something about this. Can any-one suggest a way to speed Lloyds up?

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Progess

 

first letter sent 10th June

Received reply 20th June

Second letter sent 30th June

Revieved final response 7th July

Filled in claim on line 30/07/06

Recieved Acknowledgment of service 4th August

Defence submitted 6th September

Allocation Questionnaire due back 20th Sept

Sent my Allocation Questionnaire back 10th Sept

Got there copy of Allication Questionaire 23rd Sept

Court date set for 25th Jan '07

 

 

 

Paragon Finance Progress

Sent first letter 24th August 2006

No reply so second letter sent 10th Sept 2006

Received letter back saying they are going to investigate my claim

Offer made by Paragon for full ammount plus interst! Rusult!!!

Cheque recieved *Won*

 

 

 

Any thing I write on this site is only an oppinion as I am not a solicitor or legal whizz!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Jadest

 

I know its frustrating, but I don't think there's really much you can do to hurry things up unfortunately. Just sit tight and try to be patient. The good thing is that you have at least got a court date - many cases are being stayed at the moment.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hold on in there Jadest...can't be long now. I'll keep an eye on how you're doing

Saj x

SEE MY THREAD HERE...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/7358-saj-lloyds-tsb.html

Data Protection Act letter sent recorded delivery 15.5.06

Compliance 1.06.06

PAR letter sent recorded delivery 7.06.06

1st denial received 13/6/06

LBA letter sent recorded delivery 21.06.06 (received 22/6)

Moneyclaim filed 7/7/06, Served 15/7/06

Allocation questionaire returned 28/8/06

Court date 1st December :lol:

SETTLED UNCONDITIONALLY IN FULL 5.10.06

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Hi Jadest, Just to let let you know I'm still here but have very very reduced access to computer so I will catch up from time to time.

Cat

29 March 2006 Data Protection Act Request sent for ac 1 (then she got a bit distracted but got another charge so...)

27 May Prelim letter sent for ac 1

27 May Data Protection Act Request sent for ac 2 & 3

21 June Prelim Letter sent for 2 & 3

14 July LBA sent with schedule for ac 1 & 2 & 3

7 August MCO filed – defence expected 10 September

11 September defence filed - signed Sean Copping

12 September AQ form received

18th September AQ sent back to Lambeth Court and copy sent to solicitors both recorded delivery

13th Feb 2007 Court Date Set

15th Feb Reclaimed Money is in my bank Account

 

Cat's opinions are those of a nurse and most definitely, definitely not those of an accountant or solicitor, although she was always quite good at sums and elocution.

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Thank you all. I am trying my best to stay patient but Loyds are calling me every day over £197 that they took out is charges this month and has made me over drawn... I moved all my payments to another account as I could not afford the charges and to pay all my bills... so now the overdraft has been sent to the collection department... Honestly they call me every day. I told them as I get paid I will give them there £197 but they still keep harassing me daily. I told them if they had not took illegal charges I would not owe them any-thing, and actually they owe me £4,800 and I am not calling them dailly to harass them... they still carry on calling me... it is so frustrating... Sorry for the whinging.

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Progess

 

first letter sent 10th June

Received reply 20th June

Second letter sent 30th June

Revieved final response 7th July

Filled in claim on line 30/07/06

Recieved Acknowledgment of service 4th August

Defence submitted 6th September

Allocation Questionnaire due back 20th Sept

Sent my Allocation Questionnaire back 10th Sept

Got there copy of Allication Questionaire 23rd Sept

Court date set for 25th Jan '07

 

 

 

Paragon Finance Progress

Sent first letter 24th August 2006

No reply so second letter sent 10th Sept 2006

Received letter back saying they are going to investigate my claim

Offer made by Paragon for full ammount plus interst! Rusult!!!

Cheque recieved *Won*

 

 

 

Any thing I write on this site is only an oppinion as I am not a solicitor or legal whizz!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jadest you poor thing...what a hassle. But..possibly a good thiung they have moved the account to collections. Next time they call you, just state that the account is in dispute and you are not prepared to talk to them about it until the case is settled by court or negotiation. Tell them you will put this in writing and add that you require them to stop hounding you. Keep strong...can't be long now

saj x

SEE MY THREAD HERE...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/7358-saj-lloyds-tsb.html

Data Protection Act letter sent recorded delivery 15.5.06

Compliance 1.06.06

PAR letter sent recorded delivery 7.06.06

1st denial received 13/6/06

LBA letter sent recorded delivery 21.06.06 (received 22/6)

Moneyclaim filed 7/7/06, Served 15/7/06

Allocation questionaire returned 28/8/06

Court date 1st December :lol:

SETTLED UNCONDITIONALLY IN FULL 5.10.06

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Jadest you poor thing...what a hassle. But..possibly a good thiung they have moved the account to collections. Next time they call you, just state that the account is in dispute and you are not prepared to talk to them about it until the case is settled by court or negotiation. Tell them you will put this in writing and add that you require them to stop hounding you. Keep strong...can't be long now

saj x

 

I never thought of it that way.... I will do that and then hopefully they will stop hounding me... thank you saj

Jadest x

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Progess

 

first letter sent 10th June

Received reply 20th June

Second letter sent 30th June

Revieved final response 7th July

Filled in claim on line 30/07/06

Recieved Acknowledgment of service 4th August

Defence submitted 6th September

Allocation Questionnaire due back 20th Sept

Sent my Allocation Questionnaire back 10th Sept

Got there copy of Allication Questionaire 23rd Sept

Court date set for 25th Jan '07

 

 

 

Paragon Finance Progress

Sent first letter 24th August 2006

No reply so second letter sent 10th Sept 2006

Received letter back saying they are going to investigate my claim

Offer made by Paragon for full ammount plus interst! Rusult!!!

Cheque recieved *Won*

 

 

 

Any thing I write on this site is only an oppinion as I am not a solicitor or legal whizz!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Received a letter from the court:

 

Upon the courts own initiative

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

Claim be Stayed and to be referred to district judge dudley in box work on 23rd October 2006.

 

What does this mean exactly?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4190 - Rjh v Lloyds Tsb.

Dpa Sent (13/04/06).

Statements Recevied (04/05/06).

Preliminary Letter Sent £775 owed! (12/05/06).

Received Standard Reply from Lloyds. (17/05/06).

Posted LBA (31/05/06).

Received Lloyds "Final Response" Letter (03/06/06).

Filed Claim with Moneyclaim for £775+£192.19 interest. (21/07/06)

Lloyds defend claim (23/08/06)

**Lloyds pay up, at last. £1078 (14/11/06)**

 

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Jadest...any news...did you speak to the bank re stopping hassling you?

Saj x

SEE MY THREAD HERE...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/7358-saj-lloyds-tsb.html

Data Protection Act letter sent recorded delivery 15.5.06

Compliance 1.06.06

PAR letter sent recorded delivery 7.06.06

1st denial received 13/6/06

LBA letter sent recorded delivery 21.06.06 (received 22/6)

Moneyclaim filed 7/7/06, Served 15/7/06

Allocation questionaire returned 28/8/06

Court date 1st December :lol:

SETTLED UNCONDITIONALLY IN FULL 5.10.06

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jadest, if lloyds are hasseling you by telephone, send them the letter that can be found in the templates section by jonni2bad, titled telephone harrasment,

then next time they call ,tell them that you have made the request in writing that they stop contacting you by phone immediatly,and they are not to call you again, and that if they do they are commiting a criminal offence. and if they want to contact you it is to be in writng only,

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Jadest, how's it going?

Saj x

SEE MY THREAD HERE...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/7358-saj-lloyds-tsb.html

Data Protection Act letter sent recorded delivery 15.5.06

Compliance 1.06.06

PAR letter sent recorded delivery 7.06.06

1st denial received 13/6/06

LBA letter sent recorded delivery 21.06.06 (received 22/6)

Moneyclaim filed 7/7/06, Served 15/7/06

Allocation questionaire returned 28/8/06

Court date 1st December :lol:

SETTLED UNCONDITIONALLY IN FULL 5.10.06

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