Alleged debt after 14 years

[slc79]

I am impressed with your draft letter about using the OFT complaint procedure. I am considering whether to use an adaptation in my situation.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mail-order-catalogues/218143-grattan-debt-not-mine.html#post2462614

 

So far, I have taken advice of dx100uk to IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE.

 

However, I also feel driven to nail these creeps for the methods they use to trace alleged debtors.

What would other caggers recommend????

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

To CCI Legal

 

With reference to your letter dated 25th September, 2009, in which you deny receiving a response.

 

However, I have confirmation of delivery to your address my letter dated 9 March 2008, in which I advised you that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to Grattan plc.

 

At that time I advised you to make no further contact unless you could provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question. As you made no further contact, this matter was assumed as closed.

 

In September 2009 you have sent further letters regarding this matter which was closed 18 months ago, I will take further action if this activity does not cease. In both the previous and recent correspondence, you have failed to comply with the guidelines of The CSA and the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance, i.e.

 

• It is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
  
• It is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable.
  
• In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and/or unfair methods.
  
• Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.
  

I have in my possession one , at present, blank copy of the OFT's " DEBT COLLECTION COMPLAINT FORM FOR USE BY ADVICE AGENCIES AND OTHER THIRD PARTY ORGANISATIONS". Where it states:

 

"We would like your help in checking whether those licensed under the Consumer Credit Act are complying with the OFT’s Debt Collection Guidance. Please note that complaints about debt collection practices can relate to creditors and/or their internal debt collection units, as well as external debt collection agencies."

I am sure you are aware of the OFT's ability to impose requirements upon those agencies seen to be compromised in their ability to comply with those guidelines:

 

" Following implementation of the OFT's new powers under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 on 6 April 2008, where the OFT is dissatisfied with any matter in connection with a business, a proposal to carry on a business or any other conduct by a licensee, associate or former associate, the OFT may impose 'requirements' on the licensed business. Requirements may require a business to do or not to do (or to cease doing) anything specified for the purposes connected with addressing the OFT's dissatisfaction, or securing that matters of the same or a similar kind do not arise. "

 

"Failure to comply with a requirement could lead to a fine of up to £50,000 and/or be grounds for revocation of a consumer credit licence."

 

If I receive any further correspondence to my address, unless it is an acknowledgement that the matter has been closed, I will have no hesitation in reporting your deceptive and unfair methods to the Trading Standards Department and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print name – DO NOT SIGN

Edited September 29, 2009 by slc79

[birdie7015]

I have now had a further reply from PastDue and it reads as follows:

 

"We understand the points you have stated in your correspondence however due to data protection act 1998 we are unable to disclose full account details in writing." Two security questions are in question:

 

* Please confirm that a previous address is:

100 so and so.

 

* Can you also supply the date in which you entered and vacated the property to confirm you are the correct person in question.

 

Should you have any further queries you wish to discuss please do not hesitate to contact me on ??????? this is a national rate number.

 

Yours faithfully.

...........................................................................................

 

OK. Where do we go from here?

 

I am at a loss with this Data Protection Act 1998. Are they right that they are not allowed to send a copy of the agreement by post to me? I cannot believe this since I am always getting letters from Finance houses inviting me to apply for a loan by post. Always included in the offer is an application form to complete.

 

The address they have sent me as a previous address of mine is in fact correct. Why are they asking me to tell them the date a moved in and the date I left it?

 

I don't believe it is up to me to provide them this information.

 

Is it now time to complain to the OFT?

 

 

OK. I have ammended the letter slightly if there is nothing wrong with it, I will send it tomorrow. Should I send it recorded?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Case Number:

I have now twice informed you that I will not discuss this on the telephone and yet you send me further letters requesting that I telephone you or give you a contact number. I have also requested that you inform me who this alleged creditor is. I have also advised you that I have had no communication with any finance house for over 14 years and therefore anything, which can be proved to belong to me, will be Statue Barred.

 

I have in my possession one copy of an, as yet , blank copy of the OFT's " DEBT COLLECTION COMPLAINT FORM FOR USE BY ADVICE AGENCIES AND OTHER THIRD PARTY ORGANISATIONS". Where it states:

 

"We would like your help in checking whether those licensed under the Consumer Credit Act are complying with the OFT’s Debt Collection Guidance. Please note that complaints about debt collection practices can relate to creditors and/or their internal debt collection units, as well as external debt collection agencies."

 

So far, I am at a loss as to portray your actions in a positive light. Therefore, what I am prepared to do with you, is refrain from filling in this form as pertains to your actions regarding the pursuit of statute barred debts after receiving notification that I shall not be paying. I will wait for a period of 14 days to allow you a period to rectify your erroneousness conduct. To this effect, I expect a letter from you affirming this account to be statute barred and confirming your desistance in this matter within the 14-day period. Should this not be forthcoming, then unfortunately I must proceed with the completion of this form, along with a formal complaint to yourselves that may require the arbitration of the financial ombudsman, which would be costed to you, should I not be satisfied with your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spitfire650]

It sounds like they have nothing and are just fishing for info.

 

Have you tried sending a formal request for a copy of the original agreement under section 77/78 of the CCA? They then have 14 days to comply after which they are not permitted to take any enforcement action.

 

You'll find the template in the letters section.

[birdie7015]

Well I have seen that standard letter and I did consider sending it. I'm getting a bit fed up spending money on this as each time I write to them it costs me £1.14 pence, recorded.

 

I have already stated that any account which MIGHT have been overlooked will be over 14 years and therefore statute barred and I have sent them the Statute Barred letter. I have reminded them that I don't intend to pay anything that is Statute Barred.

 

Why then continue with these letters? What is wrong with them? I think it is time to make a complaint but I'm trying to work out the points that I should be complaining about and how detailed I need to make the letter to the OFT. It seems to me that this is the only way I am going to get these people off my back.

 

Does anyone actually know if they are correct that they cannot send me a copy of the agreement by post because of the DATE PROTECTION ACT 1998. What then is the point in sending a fee of £1 for a copy if they are right and cannot send it because of this Data Protection.

 

 

It sounds like they have nothing and are just fishing for info.

 

Have you tried sending a formal request for a copy of the original agreement under section 77/78 of the CCA? They then have 14 days to comply after which they are not permitted to take any enforcement action.

 

You'll find the template in the letters section.

[spitfire650]

I am not sure about the Data Protection claim - its sounds like BS and a device to get you on the phone. If they are happy to send you demands, it follows they have already satisfied themselves as to your identity and should have no problem sending the agreement - if they have it.

 

What I am sure about is that if they can't produce this in 12+2 days they are not allowed to bother you further and £2.14 seems a cheap price to pay for peace and quiet.

 

The trouble with claiming it is statute barred is that by doing so your are admitting this was/is your account - albeit not that it is enforceable.

 

Good luck.

[birdie7015]

No. Regarding the statute letter I did say:

 

I have also advised you that I have had no communication with any finance house for over 14 years and therefore anything, which can be proved to belong to me, will be Statue Barred.

 

The account referred to still has to be proved as to belong to me. I simply stated that even if it was mine, it will be statte barred.

 

Sorry you don't know the answer to the Data Protection act. perhaps someone else may have experience in that area.

 

I will consider sending them the request for a copy of the agreement but I already know it will be a waste of time. I have already had all this with a previous company who said that they were unable to send it because they did not have it. I heard nothing further from them.

 

My own thoughts about it is to simply stop all this communication and just ignore them. Let them bring an action if they DARE.

 

 

 

 

I am not sure about the Data Protection claim - its sounds like BS and a device to get you on the phone. If they are happy to send you demands, it follows they have already satisfied themselves as to your identity and should have no problem sending the agreement - if they have it.

 

What I am sure about is that if they can't produce this in 12+2 days they are not allowed to bother you further and £2.14 seems a cheap price to pay for peace and quiet.

 

The trouble with claiming it is statute barred is that by doing so your are admitting this was/is your account - albeit not that it is enforceable.

 

Good luck.

[charlie*]

They say they are not allowed to send copy agreements in the post?

 

Rubbish.

 

They have lost it?

 

Rubbish...

 

They sold it.

Edited October 3, 2009 by charlie*

[The GodMother]

erm that data protection stuff is crap.

 

Contact the information commissioners office and ask them directly in regards to this but i dont seem to be able to follow there line of thinking unless it is to get u on the phone.

[The GodMother]

This is the FULL data proction act 1998. Data Protection Act 1998 (c. 29)

 

I have looked threw it and cannot find ANYTHING which states info cant be sent to u by post.

 

If you was to send a SAR they would have to send u the info by post

[birdie7015]

I don't seem to be getting emails when someone has added to this thread unless it has gone to my bulk folder. I will check it out.

 

Well I suppose I should send them a formal application so that at least I can show that I have made every effort on my part.

 

I have used the standard letter and response will be as follows:

 

Dear Sir,

I refer to your letter dated 30th September.

 

I am not prepared to answer any personal questions when you are not prepared to furnish me with details of the alleged debt/creditor. I have asked repeatedly that you furnish me with a true copy of the original agreement in an informal manner. You have stated that you are unable to do this because of the Data Protection Act. In my view this is total nonsense and I now apply for this is in the formal manner.

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

NOTE

My letter dated 24 Sept 09 stated that if I wasn’t satisfied with your answer I would register a complaint to the OFT. When the statutory time limit has expired, should I not be in possession of a true copy of this agreement, I will be making a complaint against PastDue.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

When I send the £1 fee can I send a cheque or should it be a Postal Order. If it's a postal order the post office always asked to whom it is to be paid out too. That in effect means that the £1 fee will be lost but no problem with that. At least they won't get it.

 

Is there anything wrong with the letter I intend to send them?

 

 

 

 

erm that data protection stuff is crap.

 

Contact the information commissioners office and ask them directly in regards to this but i dont seem to be able to follow there line of thinking unless it is to get u on the phone.

[The GodMother]

Postal order for the £1 is best. Altho u can send a cheques as long as its not signed by u.

 

Personally i would not bother sending them anything like a cca request and send them a letter saying summing like this.

 

I am writing in regards to ur refusal to send me the documents i have requested in writing several times.

 

Today i have spoken to the Office of fair trading who has advised me that you are wrong is ur assumption it is against the datat protection act to send information threw the post.

 

They have pointed out to me that you have wrote to me on various occassions giving personal and sensitive information in regards to this alleged account. They have also questioned me on the fact if you had any problems in sending me the account information i have asked for so i can establish if this is a account i may have held why are you willing to send me letters disclosing private and sensitive information that could belong to anybody?

 

As result The Office of Fair Trading have asked me to forward a copy of all correspondence regarding this matter to them which I have done. I have also enclosed a copy of the letter they have been sent for your records as you will be able to see it is rather self explanatory.

 

I look forward to recieving the information previously requested within 14 days. If i have not had this information then i can only assume you do not hold it and have passed the alleged account back to theorginal creditor.

 

Yours

 

Birdie.

[The GodMother]

EDITED copy of the letter i sent to OFT. Names account numbers and other personal info in relation to the alleged debt they were chasing have been removed.

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam.

Formal complaint against Past Due Credit Solutions.

Of registered address

4 Blair Court

North Avenue

Clydebank Business Park

Glasgow

G81 2LA

I am making this formal complaint against Past Due Credit Solutions as despite them having a letter from Mr GodMother stating very clearly that he wants them to contact me in relation to a debt they claim to have the rights to collect Past Due Credit Solutions have refused to deal with me. Past Due Credit Solutions have wrote to Mr GodMother telling him to phone them and give Verbal authorisation in regards to having me as his appointed reprehensive and asked that they provide a phone number so they can contact me to resolve this matter.

After a discussion with one of your reprehensive today just to clear a few matters up I was advised to write to the OFT so they can hold my complaint on file.

I would also like to point out that despite informing Past Due Credit Solutions to prove the alleged debt they have failed to do this.

If you require any further information in regards to this matter please feel free to write to me at the above address.

　

Yours Sincerely

　

Miss GodMother

Appointee for Mr GodMother

[The GodMother]

copy of my letter to past due. edits mentioned above have been made.

 

Re Letter dated 13th May 2009.

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO THIS COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

I am writing regarding the above mentioned letter that I received today. Copy enclosed So you can easily peruse my complaints.

I notice that the letter contains no alleged account number and that you have put a wrong date of receipt for the letter I sent you on Mr GodMothers behalf. Royal mail have provided me with signatory proof that the letter was received on 22nd April 2009.

As you will know Mr GodMother authorised me, via letter dated 21st April 2009, to act on his behalf. I am rather disappointed by your letter saying you will not deal with me because as you are fully aware this goes against the Office of fair trading Guidelines on Debt recovery mainly parts

2.8

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives.

After having a conversation with the office of fair trading today they are of the assumption that you are incorrect in relation to the letter needing a penned signature of Mr GodMother. The Office of fair trading have also advised me that and have advised me that you contacting Mr GodMother is in breech of the guidelines.

Also during the same conversation with the Office of Fair Trading I talked to them about your wanting of my phone number so you can contact me to resolve this matter on Mr GodMother's behalf. The Office of fair Trading have confirmed to me that Past Due Credit Solutions does not need to hold a telephone number for me to attempt to resolve this matter on Mr GodMother's behalf.

As result The Office of Fair Trading have asked me to forward a copy of all correspondence regarding this matter to them which I have done. I have also enclosed a copy of the letter they have been sent for your records as you will be able to see it is rather self explanatory.

I have noticed that your letter does not in anyway respond to the letter I sent you also dated 21st April 2009 where it clearly asks you to prove the allege debt it owed. As Past Due Credit Solutions have not been able to prove the alleged debt is owed then I can only assume that once you have addressed the matters previously pointed out by myself that you will be writing to me advising that you have closed your file. I have enclosed a Second copy of this letter for your ease of perusal.

To Clarify

1) The Office of Fair Trading have confirmed to me that the letter advising you that I am Mr GodMother reprehensive DOES NOT need a penned signature.

2) The Office of Fair trading have advised me that you DO NOT need to hold a telephone number for me to assist you in resolving this matter. They actually advise at everything is done is writing in case of legal proceedings.

3) Past Due Credit Solutions need to prove that any alleged debt is owed by Mr GodMother.

I trust you can deal with my request that you prove Mr GodMother owes XXXXXXXXXXXXXX within 14 days from the date of receipt of this letter which I am tracking via recorded delivery tracking number dw01234567890GB. If I have not received this confirmation then I will only assume that the matter is closed and the alleged debt has been returned to Virgin Media.

If you require more time or further information from me then please feel free to WRITE to me at the above address.

　

Yours Sincerely

　

　

Miss GodMother

Appointee

[birdie7015]

Thank you for your imput and for all the copies of correspondence you have had recently. I am assuming from these that you have had previous dealings with PastDue. I am also assuming that you have had someone acting on your behalf. This is something that I have and still am considering. I was thinking that it might be better to go to the Citizens Advice and ask one of their financial advisors to help in this respect.

 

I note that you do not think it a good idea to send them the CCA request. My own feeling on this is that I have come to know how they operate and I am very confident that if I don't, they will say to the OFT that I had not sent them a formal request and the fee. Having said that they say that they can't send it because of the Data Protection Act. My own thinking on that is where the loan is within the six years I am sure that collection agencies will ask the creditor for a copy of the agreement. Are we expected to believe that these companies go in person to the office of the creditor and obtain this in person. I don't think so and course it would be sent by post.

 

I think it might be better if I do send them the CCA request then at least the OFT will see that I have done my part. When the 14 days has expired and they still continue to write to me I will make a formal complaint to the OFT. I intend also to write to PastDue informing then that this letter will be the last I will write to them since they have failed to prove to me that I own this alleged debt. I will tell them that the only people I will respond to will be the OFT, The Data Protection Commissioner or an official from the County Court. Then I will ignore all their letters but report these to the OFT of course.

 

Any further imput from anyone appreciated

 

 

Postal order for the £1 is best. Altho u can send a cheques as long as its not signed by u.

 

Personally i would not bother sending them anything like a cca request and send them a letter saying summing like this.

 

I am writing in regards to ur refusal to send me the documents i have requested in writing several times.

 

Today i have spoken to the Office of fair trading who has advised me that you are wrong is ur assumption it is against the datat protection act to send information threw the post.

 

They have pointed out to me that you have wrote to me on various occassions giving personal and sensitive information in regards to this alleged account. They have also questioned me on the fact if you had any problems in sending me the account information i have asked for so i can establish if this is a account i may have held why are you willing to send me letters disclosing private and sensitive information that could belong to anybody?

 

As result The Office of Fair Trading have asked me to forward a copy of all correspondence regarding this matter to them which I have done. I have also enclosed a copy of the letter they have been sent for your records as you will be able to see it is rather self explanatory.

 

I look forward to recieving the information previously requested within 14 days. If i have not had this information then i can only assume you do not hold it and have passed the alleged account back to theorginal creditor.

 

Yours

 

Birdie.

[The GodMother]

Birdie.

 

I was acting on behalf of my partner. He was being harrassed over money that Virgin Media lost.

 

Past Due will ignore ur cca request they have ignored all previous letters asking for proof of debt and they have stated in writing they wont send peronal data threw the post as its against the DPA.

 

If you send all the paperwork u have sent and recieved from past due then it will show that u have done your part as u can prove you have told them the debt is staute barred.

[birdie7015]

I agree with you as I now know how they work. I just wanted to show the OFT and maybe others that I have done everything I could as regards their claim that I owe a debt.

 

After the 14 days on the CCA request, I will be making a formal complaint to the OFT and mabe even the Financial Ombudsman too.

 

PastDue will also get a letter as I have already stated that I will not be responding to any of their letter in the future. They will be totally ignored unless I hear from a court official.

 

Birdie

 

 

Birdie.

 

I was acting on behalf of my partner. He was being harrassed over money that Virgin Media lost.

 

Past Due will ignore ur cca request they have ignored all previous letters asking for proof of debt and they have stated in writing they wont send peronal data threw the post as its against the DPA.

 

If you send all the paperwork u have sent and recieved from past due then it will show that u have done your part as u can prove you have told them the debt is staute barred.

[JonCris]

In an effort not to comply & frustrate information requests many firms quite wrongly hide behind the DPA If they are claiming you owe them demand to see the proof

[The GodMother]

JC birdie has been trying to get the infor they have refused which is why i say formally complain to the oft.

[JonCris]

GM my advice is to ignore them as the more contact will only encourage them AND the OP might inadvertantly admit the debt

 

If it's NOT out of time nothing changes & there are other ways to fight them

[The GodMother]

its 14 years old and not contact for 14 years. They have refued to accept SB.

[JonCris]

That's as may be it's still statued barred so theres no need to respond. They'll eventually give up communicate and they won't

[The GodMother]

i got rid of the company easily.

 

I wrote to them informing them i had compained to OFT including a copy of my letter to the OFT and not heard from them since. I can assume they have left as not seen any begging letters for the OH.

 

My letters on on the other page.

[greendollar]

Don't waste your time with these people,the debt,although you may owe it,is unenforcable...they know it and are just trying their luck.IGNORE THEM...and eventually they will go away.

[birdie7015]

Yes I am going to complain to the OFT but have decided to give them the 12 plus 2 days to respond. It will probably take me that long to sort out the order of complaint and to work out exactly what I am complaining about. I assume that I should send them copies of all correspondence or should I wait until they ask for them.

 

This is the second DCA that has written to me about this and I am not going through all this again if there is a third. In future they will just get a letter explaining that it is statute barred if (indeed the debt is mine) and that the only person I will respond to will be an official from the County Court.

[JonCris]

Yes I am going to complain to the OFT but have decided to give them the 12 plus 2 days to respond. It will probably take me that long to sort out the order of complaint and to work out exactly what I am complaining about. I assume that I should send them copies of all correspondence or should I wait until they ask for them.

 

This is the second DCA that has written to me about this and I am not going through all this again if there is a third. In future they will just get a letter explaining that it is statute barred if (indeed the debt is mine) and that the only person I will respond to will be an official from the County Court.

 

sorry but unless they are threatening recovery action they are not doing anything wrong as even though time barred they can still ask for the debt to be paid & thats what the OFT will say