Help needed

[Sealsey]

Hi, I was driving home last week, when coming off a motorway junction, towards a roundabout. When a woman changed lanes at the end of the junction, cutting me up and hitting her at around 10-5mph. No damage done etc then today I come home, shes is doing me for whiplash and has rented a hire car, that she wants my insurance to pay for.

 

Here are the facts I have written down and intend to send to my insurance, where do I stand and how much NCB do I stand to lose?

 

here the facts I have told my insurance company

 

1) I was cut up at the roundabout and couldn’t break in time.

2) The contact was at no more the 5 mph as I was breaking for the junction at the time

3) She moved away from the scene so no witnesses could be stopped(she was blocking my car in front) So if she didn’t move I couldn’t.

4) Checked both cars and AGREED no damage had been done to either

5) Told her my father worked in the car trade and I lived round the corner and he could have a look, she declined.

6) Admitted that this had happed to her before.

7) Asked for her phone number which I never gave and she didn’t know what address to put down as her home address.

8) Made a comment when leaving that she would get the physio’s on me.

9) Drove off in her car which was 100% road worthy when she left, but now needs a hre car.

Am thinking about fighting his, advised insurance company, am so p****ed off:mad:

[gyzmo]

This is a very common occurence. Many people think thre is no damage to their car at the scene and feel a fraud is being committed when they hear of a hire car being involved.

 

Given that the hire car is paid for, what benefit do you think would be derived from being put into a vehicle for which she could be possible liable?

 

It is quite posible there is some damage.

 

As for liability, it is a matter of proof. If neither position can be established, it will go 50/50.

[Sealsey]

Just found out her insurance company isn't involved she has gone to a ambulance chaser, and is paying for the hire car out of her own pocket, And is also claiming I hit her from behind but has forgot to mention the change of lane at the roundabout,

I have told my insurance I am not at fault, will she now need to contact her insurance as well, as mine won't pay for damages if its her word against mine??

[gyzmo]

In the absence of proof it will be 50/50 or if they do not feel thathe third party has a stron enough case then to defend the claim.

 

She should notify her insurers. The unfortunate thing about all this is that the impact was to the rear of her car. Usually rear end damage resuts from the person behind not maintaining a safe distance. This is not the case with you as she cut in.

 

You must mention that to the insurer giving the road name and preferably drawing a diagram if needed. But even then it comes down to what can be proven.

[Sealsey]

Thanks for that I have noted the road and taken a picture of the roundabout as it has funny lanes that mean once your in the wrong one your stuck, hence why she moved over at last minate.

 

I told my insurance that I hit her behind but I hasd no where else to go, So the fact that there were 5 other cars around us but she decided to move around the corner before getting details has not helped as it will be my word against her's now

[gyzmo]

the circumstances you describe will make her liable, but as said it is a matter of proof. Be calm with your insurer and insist that you send documents in. However do also be aware that if they do not have a reasonable chance of success they will settle to some degree. That's the nature of insurance and the law.

 

Good luck

[Sealsey]

she i sticking to I hit her, etc etc, As I can't prove she moved over and the only think that isn't in doudt is that I hit her I am fearing the worse.

 

I would of had 4 yeays NCB by December, will I lose all of this even thou I'm not claiming anything and its just her who is claming so damage.I know I'm going to lose out but how much.

Still can't believe she is shafting me like this

[gyzmo]

Stick by your guns. You cn be as adamant as she is. Although your insurer may pay out, it is still worth maintaining your position.

[Sealsey]

Update

 

My insurance has told my nothing to fill out at my end as no claom from me.

 

Today I get the list of her injuries. Neck Pains, Left shoulder pain and Tension headaches.

 

"Our client did not attend hospital for treatment" I know for a fact she works in hospital.

 

I am deny liability, what so I put in my relpy can't really say "I think she is ripping me off.

 

Mad

[gyzmo]

It really should not matter that you are not claiming for yourself.

 

When you call your insurer to report an incident, usually the details given are enough to process the claim. However if you are disuting the version of events then you should, even without their request, send to them a diagram or a full written statement (preferably both linked together) of the incident.

 

I would call again and ask which department is dealing with the third party claim. Ask to speak to them so that you can state that you ar denying liability and wish to support this stance (if it is a call centre you may be unfortunate to speak to someone who can only follow a script - in such a case ask for a supervisor). You should at least then be given the opportunity to put your view forward. But (and my repetition of this should demonstrate that I cannot emphasise this enough) truth and proof are separate animals like I have said before. If your insurer still pays out, at least you have some dignity in being truthful and not stooping to some lower level. I know that may seem incomparable to a hike in premiums.

 

Ps. I think your cause of action (not that there is any) is "res ipsa loquitor - the thing is as is said. It is basically a case of the facts speaking for themselves. try stating that in your letter - may give someone pause for thought!

[Sealsey]

Here is my list of reasons that I can remember, what would you add to this or remove Gyzmo?

1) I was cut up at the roundabout and couldn’t break in time.

2) The contact was at no more the 5 mph as I was breaking for the junction at the time

3) She moved away from the scene so no witnesses could be stopped (she was blocking my car in front) So if she didn’t move I couldn’t. There was about 6 other vehicles around at the time why no witnesses names taken. I can answer that as I knew I wouldn’t be claiming. I wouldn’t need any,

If I had been hit from behind I would have asked for names and address of anyone who saw it so no disagreement could arise. Why didn’t she do that.

4) The damage to my car a small dent is on the right hand side of bumper (see pic) Not on the front, meaning contact was not directly from behind but at a angle due to lane change.

5) Checked both cars and AGREED no damage had been done to either .

6) No visible damage to back bumper, her bumper was dirty and the bump had not even marked the dirt.

7) She opened her boot to get paper out, where I checked the line of back wing which was ok, boot then shut ok.

8) As my car is a mini cooper any damage would be low down on the back of the car. The mark on my car backs that up,

9) Told her my father worked in the car trade and I lived round the corner and he could have a look, she declined she just wanted to leave she wasn’t worried about carrying on her journey then sorting out her car..

10) Admitted that this had happed to her before.

11) Asked for her phone number which I never gave and she didn’t know what address to put down as her home address. (Is her policy up to date is she is living elsewhere)

12) Made a comment when leaving that she would get the physio’s on me.

13) Jumped in her car and on to a busy main road 50mph and drove off. Why not phone the police or take pictures of accident, I feel she has gone home and then decided to cash in with the compensation culture hat is sadly the way things are going

 

I have taken a picture of my car and am going to take one of the road, if I up load picture of road would that help understand the road marking.

[gadgetgirl79]

4) The damage to my car a small dent is on the right hand side of bumper (see pic) Not on the front, meaning contact was not directly from behind but at a angle due to lane change.

You might want to emphasise this point. The damage to the car is often the crucial point in deciphering what happened. If the dent on your car is on the RH side of the bumper, then you can not have hit her from behind. Obviously I don't have the diagram infront of me, so can't really picture it, but could the damage could be consistent with her driving into you potentially??

 

I would also claim against her insurance company for the dent in your car. If it's her fault, then you really should make the claim, as your car should be returned to as it was BEFORE she caused the accident.

[Sealsey]

My dad is in the trade, so i have lined my car up behind the same model car as the one hit, taken a picture of them showing if I had hit direct from behind the point of impact would of been on the centre of the bumper. The bumper on the mini is curvy, so the dent where it has makes it impossibe if I hit directly from behind or so I think.

As for the mark you really need to look for it. but the chrome is also damamged on the right side not in the center, I have taken phots of these tonight. I can't upload on here for people to see.

Just getting everything I can think off. got pitures of road as well on my way home as well, showing road marking that may of made her change lane so close to the roundabout

[roysta]

Hi, this is my first ever post, I am after some information about DCA's.... specifically the fact that nobody has been in touch for a year now regarding my debts (one to egg and one to vanquis), I don't know whether to contact egg and vanquis or whether to just leave it? I am sorry if this post is in the wrong place, I am so confused.... I keep getting lost around the forums lol!

[gadgetgirl79]

My dad is in the trade, so i have lined my car up behind the same model car as the one hit, taken a picture of them showing if I had hit direct from behind the point of impact would of been on the centre of the bumper. The bumper on the mini is curvy, so the dent where it has makes it impossibe if I hit directly from behind or so I think.

As for the mark you really need to look for it. but the chrome is also damamged on the right side not in the center, I have taken phots of these tonight. I can't upload on here for people to see.

Just getting everything I can think off. got pitures of road as well on my way home as well, showing road marking that may of made her change lane so close to the roundabout

 

That should help! You really should fight this, as it seems really unfair to lose your NCB for an incident that wasn't your fault! If the damage is to the side of the bumper, then there is no way you hit her from behind.

 

For my accident, I used google maps and the satelite option to see the road markings and show them in a picture, then I sketched out the incident. Lucky for me it was simple in my case, as I was hit from behind at 40mph on a dual carriageway, and the guy admitted full responsiblity!

[Sealsey]

 

Right am trying to get my point of view across if I hit from behind the impact will be in the middle near the mini badge, but mine is towards the right hand side near the end of the chrome, due t the fact she was changing lanes and cutting me up

 

And here showing that shape of the bumper means the middle is shaped ahead of the right hand side of the car meaning middle not point of contact. sorty am doudting myself now

[gadgetgirl79]

I think what you're trying to say is that the positioning of the dent means that she must've driven right in front of you across your lane to cause the impact to be at an angle, thus making it her fault and not yours??

 

You'll need to try and put it on a diagram for your insurance company. Try using google earth to show the lanes, then get some top views of the cars involved and position them at the angle showing her cutting you up.

[Sealsey]

" she must've driven right in front of you across your lane to cause the impact to be at an angle"

 

That is 100% what I am saying I had nowhere to go but in the back of her

I have taken a picture of my car behind a same make model year car as her's, from the side not the top, you can clearly see the front of bumper sticks out more then the point of impact, also with the picture it shows as my car is low (as all mini's are) if I hit direct from behind my grill on my car would also of been hit, the shape of her back bumper bacs this up.

The only think is I still her her pretty central but with my right hand side only, so they will show her damage as dead centre which won't help:?

[gadgetgirl79]

The only think is I still her her pretty central but with my right hand side only, so they will show her damage as dead centre which won't help:?

 

True, but this is why you need to use diagrams to show how the damage is as it is.

 

If you were tailgating and hit her, damage on both cars would have been central. Here we have one car with central damage, and the other with side damage, hence you need a diagram to show how the cars collided and whose fault it was.

 

YOU were there at the time, so you know how it happened, but for me and anyone else, it's really difficult to visualise it, so you mustn't forget this when doing the sketch for the insurance. Before sending it, get someone to take a look to see if they can clearly understand it.

 

She'll obviously trying to claim that this is all your fault, so nothing paid by her insurance. As the damage is on the front of your car and the rear of hers, then you'll need to prove that it was her fault you hit her. If she genuinely had whiplash, she would have gone to hospital or at least seen a doctor. My whiplash was agony!!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Wondering out loud . . .

 

As described this is an accident involving a personal injury.

It should have been reported to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a crime.

Is it the best tactic to ask now for details of the police station reported to or to ask later?

 

I think let her dig her hole a bit more!

[Sealsey]

Wondering out loud . . .

 

As described this is an accident involving a personal injury.

It should have been reported to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a crime.

Is it the best tactic to ask now for details of the police station reported to or to ask later?

 

I think let her dig her hole a bit more!

 

could you explain more, i am in the process of writing my letter to the insurance company and her amublance chaser? do I ask for an crime number etc and where is your source she needs to report in 24hours?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Wondering out loud . . .

 

As described this is an accident involving a personal injury.

It should have been reported to the police within 24 hours. Failure to do so is a crime.

Is it the best tactic to ask now for details of the police station reported to or to ask later?

 

I think let her dig her hole a bit more!

 

could you explain more, i am in the process of writing my letter to the insurance company and her amublance chaser? do I ask for an crime number etc and where is your source she needs to report in 24hours?

 

Highway Code Rule 261

RTA 1988 s 170

 

I think the only correspondence you should be engaged in is with your own lawyer at this stage.

 

You won't get a crime ref.

 

What is a crime is to fail to report, to the police, a PI accident within 24 hours. I am wondering whether, if she has not done so it will prejudice her claim (whatever the merits of it).

[Sealsey]

Right, I have sent off to my insurance what happed including pictures etc, and told her solicitors to contact my insurance for copies and not to deal with me direct.

However been told not by my insurance but a friend that due to lack of witnesses they will probably find in her favour as I hit her from behind that is the only think we both agree on. Is this true, if so looks liek I lost this one

[empowered]

Right, I have sent off to my insurance what happed including pictures etc, and told her solicitors to contact my insurance for copies and not to deal with me direct.

However been told not by my insurance but a friend that due to lack of witnesses they will probably find in her favour as I hit her from behind that is the only think we both agree on. Is this true, if so looks liek I lost this one

 

Hi - you mentioned earlier that she admitted that this had happened to her before --- has she been hit before? If so, you can go down the route that the PI injury could have been a pre-existing condition from the previous accident. Any Loss of Earnings? Has she continued to work? A 5mph bump should not cause lasting whiplash! However, so many people are now jumping on the compensation bandwagon and pushing up all our premiums:mad:

[gadgetgirl79]

1) I was cut up at the roundabout and couldn’t break in time.

 

Which makes it her fault. Any CCTV on the road? Either to show what happened or to find a witness?

 

2) The contact was at no more the 5 mph as I was breaking for the junction at the time

At 5mph, the damage to the vehicle would be minimum, so no need for a hire car for more than 1 day.

3) She moved away from the scene so no witnesses could be stopped(she was blocking my car in front) So if she didn’t move I couldn’t.

How far away did she stop? Normally you just pull up at the side unless it's not safe to do so.

 

4) Checked both cars and AGREED no damage had been done to either

 

Make sure this is emphasised to the insurance. You shouldn't have to pay for anything else, and make sure she provides receipts for all the work done. at 5mph, it's unlikely there is any damage that's not external, so it should have been visible.

5) Told her my father worked in the car trade and I lived round the corner and he could have a look, she declined.

 

Not usually practical, as her insurance company would sort out a garage that they use for their insurance. She did give you her insurance details didn't she?

I still think you should get her insurance to pay for the damage to your car, even though you say it's only a small dent. It would be nice for her to lose her NCB too, given she caused it!

 

6) Admitted that this had happed to her before.

Accidents happen. She may have been hit for more and see it as a way to get insurance money from whiplash!!

7) Asked for her phone number which I never gave and she didn’t know what address to put down as her home address.

8) Made a comment when leaving that she would get the physio’s on me.

Very suspicious. Her home address would be where her CAR lives too, which she has to give to her insurance company. If the car is kept at a different address over night, you have to notify the insurance too.

 

9) Drove off in her car which was 100% road worthy when she left, but now needs a hre car.

Am thinking about fighting his, advised insurance company, am so p****ed off:mad:

 

Any damage from a 5mph bump would be external and visible, so would just require a part ordering, then a hire car for half or one day whilst they fitted the new part.

 

You said she wasn't going through her insurance but went straight to one of these claims company. Sounds VERY suspicious to me. Are you sure she had insurance? After someone smashed into my car, the first person I phoned was the police to report the accident, and the second call was to my insurance company to arrange my car being towed and a hire car. Why on earth anyone would do anything different if their car was damaged enough to need a hire car, and they got whiplash, I really don't know.

 

Keep us posted on how this goes. If she's lying about whiplash to get some money, that makes me SO mad! Whiplash is really painful, so if she is lying, then I hope one day someone smashes into her car darn hard to show her what it really is like!