Beggining for help URGET RE:rossendale,council tax and WPO

[Violent_indie]

*can a mod change title to "begging" sorry my heads a mess atm cant think straight"

My good friends of CAG

 

Im here again cap in hand begging for your help im confused and terrified for my familys wellbeing i have tried everything i can think of and am at my wits end.

 

 

So to begin the story...

 

This morning about 10.15 an unmistakable white van pulls up outside, two baliffs, ask for my father(whom im living with due to his ill health through chronic asthma) and over a letter, stating that we have 24 hrs to pay upwards of £1000 pounds( for last years council tax apparently), or they will return tomorrow to collect goods.

 

Now here is where the fun begins...

 

They CLAIM my father has signed a walking possession order in march of this year, now i was living with him then also and have no recollection of this, nor does he. They claim he said hed pay £80 pounds per fortnight ( as this is more than half his benefits he would be stupid to agree to this and im sure he didnt)

 

What we do know is, he did have a telephone conversation with them in april and they wanted us to return an income/expendature form,which he did which they now claim they havent recieved.( i drove my father to the PO, so i KNOW it was sent) They claim they never recieved offer for payment either, and it is OUR responsibility to chase them if they dont follow up with us, they claim to have called SEVERAL TIMES( we have spoken to them once and dont ignore the phone, we dont believe in burying our heads in the sand, we just answer and refuse to pass security) and sent SEVERAL letters, non of which we have recieved.

 

 

We have called the council this morning (the original creditor) and asked if they can take on the debt and we pay it by D/D they dont want to know, we have called rossendales, to ask for installments( im back in employment as of october ) or at the very least gain an extension but we can get nothing, we then called the person who came with the van and they want , 383 by tomorrow for THEIR charges, again another amount that we can not under ANY circumstances pay, i am already well into my overdraft and cant gain an extension, i have also recently become unemployed ( company went bust ) and am awaiting my final pay inc holidays etc i have NO source of income as i am awaiting an apointment to assess benefits im owed and the like.

 

Our total household income is just over 400 a month at the moment, 225 of that is rent, the rest is 40 for gas/electricity then 60 for all other bills combined, no as im sure you can tell that leave us with more or less 75 a month to feed ourselves.

 

We have NO disposable income. No way of paying this bill We are completely screwed from what i can tell.

 

Any advice folks? We dont even have enough things in the house to cover the outstanding debt(well nothing they can legally take)

 

 

Any advice even if its only a way to gain an extension will be greatfully recieved.

 

 

PLEASE HELP, i dont think my father will survive another baliff call

Edited August 28, 2008 by Violent_indie

[FairPlay77]

*can a mod change title to "begging" sorry my heads a mess atm cant think straight"

My good friends of CAG

 

Im here again cap in hand begging for your help im confused and terrified for my familys wellbeing i have tried everything i can think of and am at my wits end.

 

 

So to begin the story...

 

This morning about 10.15 an unmistakable white van pulls up outside, two baliffs, ask for my father(whom im living with due to his ill health through chronic asthma) and over a letter, stating that we have 24 hrs to pay upwards of £1000 pounds( for last years council tax apparently), or they will return tomorrow to collect goods.

 

Now here is where the fun begins...

 

They CLAIM my father has signed a walking possession order in march of this year, now i was living with him then also and have no recollection of this, nor does he. They claim he said hed pay £80 pounds per fortnight ( as this is more than half his benefits he would be stupid to agree to this and im sure he didnt)

 

What we do know is, he did have a telephone conversation with them in april and they wanted us to return an income/expendature form,which he did which they now claim they havent recieved.( i drove my father to the PO, so i KNOW it was sent) They claim they never recieved offer for payment either, and it is OUR responsibility to chase them if they dont follow up with us, they claim to have called SEVERAL TIMES( we have spoken to them once and dont ignore the phone, we dont believe in burying our heads in the sand, we just answer and refuse to pass security) and sent SEVERAL letters, non of which we have recieved.

 

 

We have called the council this morning (the original creditor) and asked if they can take on the debt and we pay it by D/D they dont want to know, we have called rossendales, to ask for installments( im back in employment as of october ) or at the very least gain an extension but we can get nothing, we then called the person who came with the van and they want , 383 by tomorrow for THEIR charges, again another amount that we can not under ANY circumstances pay, i am already well into my overdraft and cant gain an extension, i have also recently become unemployed ( company went bust ) and am awaiting my final pay inc holidays etc i have NO source of income as i am awaiting an apointment to assess benefits im owed and the like.

 

Our total household income is just over 400 a month at the moment, 225 of that is rent, the rest is 40 for gas/electricity then 60 for all other bills combined, no as im sure you can tell that leave us with more or less 75 a month to feed ourselves.

 

We have NO disposable income. No way of paying this bill We are completely screwed from what i can tell.

 

Any advice folks? We dont even have enough things in the house to cover the outstanding debt(well nothing they can legally take)

 

 

Any advice even if its only a way to gain an extension will be greatfully recieved.

 

 

PLEASE HELP, i dont think my father will survive another baliff call

 

THE council have A DUTY OF CARE to vulnerable people. Your family is obviously vulnerable within the meaning of that term. I suggest that you contact the council immediately explaining this fact and demanding that you be treated as vulnerable people.

 

Tell the council that you are willing to make regular payments within your very limited means and will be happy to sign a income/expenditure form.

Tell them also that, in view of your cirucumstances and their obvious 'duty of care' they should immediately call off the bailiffs and take back the case. DO NOT BE FOOLED if the council pretend that the cannot take the case back. THEY CAN TAKE THE CASE BACK and insist that they do so.

If the council office refuses to do so, contact your local councillor.

 

As for the Walking Possession Order: it seems that you have not signed such an order. If the bailiffs think that you have, DEMAND that they send you a copy of the WPO and tell them that until such time as they can show you the evidence you are sticking to the fact that no WPO has ever been signed.

 

Concerning their ILLEGAL CHARGES - yes, illegal! It doesn't matter if the bailiffs have called "several" times. If they have indeed called, and you should demand proof of this, they can only charge you £24 for their first visit and £18 for their second. The can't charge for more than two visits.

Put this to them in writing and send the letter by recorded delivery. DON'T SIGN IT but write you name in block capitals. This is to stop them forging your signature on a WPO form! Tell them also that you are VULNERABLE PEOPLE and that you have reported this fact to the council.

 

If the bailiffs call, DO NOT LET THEM IN, unless they have cast-iron proof that a WPO exists. They have no right of entry unless you have previously allowed them in and have signed a WPO.

 

BUT, WHATEVE YOU DO, GO TO THE COUNCIL IMMEDIATELY AND ASK THAT THE BAILIFFS BE WITHDRAWN. It's always better to deal with the organ-grinder rather than the monkey!

 

Good luck, and if you have any more problems, come right back to this form because there are lots of people here who can help you.

[Violent_indie]

We have been onto the council, they wont help us, say theres nothing they can do as rossendales alledge they have a WPO.

[Violent_indie]

We are on the telephone to the council currently, they seem to be taking their time to give us a straightcanswer, im wondering could we have the letter written and hsnd it to them tomorrow, when they are due to come, as they are now threatening to bring the police as they know we have no intentions of letting them in i think.

 

 

EDIT: They have refused again.

I just feel ive left it too late to act, but as we have heard nothing of this before, and only had this "final notice" today

[FairPlay77]

We are on the telephone to the council currently, they seem to be taking their time to give us a straightcanswer, im wondering could we have the letter written and hsnd it to them tomorrow, when they are due to come, as they are now threatening to bring the police as they know we have no intentions of letting them in i think.

 

 

EDIT: They have refused again.

I just feel ive left it too late to act, but as we have heard nothing of this before, and only had this "final notice" today

 

IT is not too late. Find out immediately who your local councillor is (you can do so on the internet, from the council offices or from your nearest library). Also find out the name, address and phone numbers of one or two other councillors near you in case your own councillor is on holiday. When you've done that, ring them tonight and explain your situation. Explain that the bailiffs are lying and that you do not have a WPO. Ask him or her to take action immediately to have the bailiffs called off and the case taken back by the council. STRESS WITH ALL THE VIGOUR YOU CAN MUSTER THAT YOU ARE VULNERABLE AND THE COUNCIL MUST TREAT YOU AS SUCH.

 

But, as it is still only 4.30 when I'm writing this, ring back the council NOW and INSIST that as you are VULNERABLE they MUST TAKE BACK THE CASE AND CALL OFF THE BAILIFFS. Say that if you don't you will report them to the Local Govt Ombudsman. Don't take no for an answer. If the person you speak to is not helpful, ask to speak to his or her line manager, and right up the chain until you get ACTION. Do it now. DEMAND action if asking nicely gets you know where. Say you've taken legal advice, etc.

 

I'll get back to you with more suggstions later after you've done this.

[Violent_indie]

We have done EVERYTHING you have suggested i have phone 3 coucellors and the council has said the same thing to them they wont take it back its out of their hands etc etc. We have told them we'd report, they say its unfounded as they have tried to help but their "hands are tied"

 

I just feel like shooting myself in the head right now, NO ONE will help me outside of CAG

[FairPlay77]

We have done EVERYTHING you have suggested i have phone 3 coucellors and the council has said the same thing to them they wont take it back its out of their hands etc etc. We have told them we'd report, they say its unfounded as they have tried to help but their "hands are tied"

 

I just feel like shooting myself in the head right now, NO ONE will help me outside of CAG

 

OK, I suggest the following,

 

1. The bailiffs are threatening to come tomorrow to steal your property and they haven't got a WPO.and presumably you have never let them in before. If that is indeed the case THEY CANNOT BREAK IN. If they come, DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR, DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM, DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR EXISTENCE. And do not leave any doors or windows open. Let them huff and puff as much as they like and let them threaten you with all sorts of nonsense but they are powerless (Again, I stress, if there is no WPO and you have never allowed them access to your home before).

 

As they have threatened to call the police (which is probably just an idle threat to scare you) I would write a note tonight and take it round to your local police station. Mark it MOST URGENT and address it to the SENIOR OFFICER and ask the desk officer to give you a receipt. You can say something like the following:

 

"I am being threatend by Rossendales bailiffs and need your protection.

 

Rossendales claim they have a Walking Possession Order signed by my father that entitles them to enter my premises and take my goods. This is a lie. No such Walking Possession Order exists and I have never granted them access to my property. Accordingly, I intend to exercise my legal right not to allow them access.

 

The bailiff company says they will call the police to help them gain access to my property. Obviously, as they have no legal right to force entry, I expect your officers, if necessary, to assist me in protecting my property.

 

As you are aware, bailiffs can only enter a person's home if they have previously been granted access and the occupant has signed a Walking Possession Order. I am aware that the legislation concerning bailiffs changed recently but, as you are doubtless aware, it has not yet come into force and will not do so until a regulator has been appointed. In the meantime, the law is cystal clear: BAILIFFS CANNOT ENTER UNLESS THERE IS A VALID WALKDING POSSESSION ORDER.

 

I trust that I can depend on your full cooperation in this matter. Naturally, if the bailiffs are threatening or unruly in any way, I will expect your offiers not only to stop them forcing their way into my home but also to arrest them.

Signed..."

 

Having said the above, I think it extremely unlikely that the bailiffs will be stupid enough to try and break into your home but it is advisable to give the above letter to the police anyway, so please do so (again, if you really are confident that there is no valid WTO).

 

Keep in touch with CAG this evening as there may be other people who can give you advice.

[Violent_indie]

I have an update but i dont know what to make of it, or if it will even happen, its a very dim light at the end of a very long and dark tunnel

 

I have contacted my councellor again, and they have pestered the council into granting a week long extension, that said, someone from said council will call the baliffs tomorrow and state that a week is granted rossendale will then supposedly contact their van department, and call it off.

 

I DONT BELIEVE A WORD OF IT

 

Even so thats just giving me 7 days of no sleep and to come up with the FULL AMOUNT including charges that the council have backed rossendale up and said are legal. If we cant get the money in seven days(Which granted my father and i's postion isnt possible) Goods will be seized and we have no say in the matter, and i will not be helped further.

 

Newcastle borough council bunch of C^*$*

[FairPlay77]

We have done EVERYTHING you have suggested i have phone 3 coucellors and the council has said the same thing to them they wont take it back its out of their hands etc etc. We have told them we'd report, they say its unfounded as they have tried to help but their "hands are tied"

 

I just feel like shooting myself in the head right now, NO ONE will help me outside of CAG

 

ONE other thing. Make sure your car is parked somewhere where the bailiffs can't find it!

[palomino]

VI, much of this hinges on whether a WPO was ever issued. If it was and you or your father signed it then you've got big problems.

 

However if your are adamant that no such document was signed then you should follow fairplay's instructions. I would also probe your father as best you can in the circumstances to see if he signed anything which he might not have recognised. Bailiffs are known to 'mislead' on occasion and he might not have realised what it was for.

 

Finally if the bailiffs turn up and claim that they have a WPO then you must ask to see it, and ensure that it was signed. If they can't produce the order then it doesn't exist (even they are not stupid enough to come without it). If it was issued but not signed by you or your father then it isn't valid. In either case you can legitimately refuse entry.

[palomino]

Aah, I see we've crossed in the post.....

 

The urgency seems to have gone out of the situation but I would still prepare yourself for a week's time. At least you can do it a bit more calmly.

 

Can you keep updating us here - even if you say 'nothing happened today'.

Edited August 28, 2008 by palomino
Missed words

[Violent_indie]

I certainly have never signed anything i am ten thousand per cent sure.

 

What happens if it was signed, albeit unknowingly? Im sure nothing has been signed, but obviously as i have chores to do for my father including keep ing appointments of my own etc i am not here 24/7 so they could have been when im not here(though i doubt very much i wouldnt know about it) and put him under duress or even fooled him into it.

 

I have found no copies amoungst any of our paperwirk of any such order and no copies of these alledged letters (i file them meticulously).

If they have MADE and bullied him into signing using his condition against him surely thats illegal?

 

As my father has also had dealings with them before a few years ago, it is possible he signed something then, and they have used his signature,to be honest i wouldnt put anything past these people

 

 

Could you advise me further as to where i would stand, in reagrds to any of these things should they be true?

[Violent_indie]

In reply to the post before my last. i will certainly keep you updated, and i would like to thank you all SO MUCH for your help, i have shown my father all of what has ben posted here, and whilst we know this still isnt over we now at least have breathing space

[FairPlay77]

I certainly have never signed anything i am ten thousand per cent sure.

 

What happens if it was signed, albeit unknowingly? Im sure nothing has been signed, but obviously as i have chores to do for my father including keep ing appointments of my own etc i am not here 24/7 so they could have been when im not here(though i doubt very much i wouldnt know about it) and put him under duress or even fooled him into it.

 

I have found no copies amoungst any of our paperwirk of any such order and no copies of these alledged letters (i file them meticulously).

If they have MADE and bullied him into signing using his condition against him surely thats illegal?

 

As my father has also had dealings with them before a few years ago, it is possible he signed something then, and they have used his signature,to be honest i wouldnt put anything past these people

 

 

Could you advise me further as to where i would stand, in reagrds to any of these things should they be true?

 

IF they turn up with what they claim to be a WPO make them put it through the letter box so you can examine it. If it is unsigned or you believe the signature to have been forged, refuse to let them in or the grounds that it is not valid.

 

There is also the question of their illegal charges, which you should refuse to pay.

 

Keep us posted as we may be able to come up with more suggestions.

By the way, find somewhere to park your car where the bailiffs can't get at it.

[maidmarion]

Hi,can't offer any further advise,but had to just mention, have you applied for housing/council tax benifit ?

In your first post you say that your total income is 400 pm with rent being 255 - you should be entitled to help,contact the CAB or benifits dept !!!!

 

Good Luck

[Violent_indie]

Have done, as i said, im awaiting an apointment:)

[kermit2482]

Do you honestly think a bailiff would post the WPO through th letterbox for you to examine?????????? Dont be daft, however my advice would be to call the police and have them examine it in your presence, this they would have to do, that way you kill 2 birds in one stone, if its an illegal levy you can make the complaint straight away!!! Good luck

[Violent_indie]

And i didnt suggest they would !!!!! please dont be rude:(

[kermit2482]

And i didnt suggest they would !!!!! please dont be rude:(

 

 

Whats rude about my post, its a perfectly good bit of advice, but hey if you dont want it then fight your own battle and good luck my friend

[Violent_indie]

The over punctuation and calling someone daft is rude, and im perfectly willing to accept/take on board advice from people who convery it in a way i consider to be polite.

[kermit2482]

The over punctuation and calling someone daft is rude, and im perfectly willing to accept/take on board advice from people who convery it in a way i consider to be polite.

 

My apologies if you took it that way it was not intentional, Anyway in my opinion it was still good advice one which i still feel you should take, but thats your choice.

 

kind regards Kermit

[palomino]

And i didnt suggest they would !!!!! please dont be rude:(

 

You didn't, Fairplay did. Kermit was replying to him rather than you.

[Violent_indie]

Yes,i know now.

[Violent_indie]

Ok quick update

 

 

They are coming this friday, and we have no way of getting the money they want together so, we are buggered again

[tomtubby]

From your post I do not know whether the bailiff company have provided a copy of the "walking possession" or whether you have requested one.

 

In any event, I would suggest that as a matter of urgency you contact the LOCAL COUNCIL tomorrow to inform them that UNLESS they take this debt back from the bailiff you will be making a formal complaint to the MAGISTRATE COURT under Regulation 46 of Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

This application is free and it is VERY SIMPLE indeed and many more debtors and small business are doing this.

 

The complaint is made by way of a letter to the Magistrates Court on the grounds that your are "aggrieved " by the levy made by the bailiff OR........by the threat of a levy by the bailiff.

 

There is very specific wording to making this application which I can provide tomorrow if you wish.

 

Finally, once the complaint has been sent to the Magistrates Court, then account should be on hold.......