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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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First letter Sent.


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I heard about this site from an offtopic post on a forum of a 3D Engine. I was somewhat sceptical when I first heard of the Bank Action Group. I have put this scepticism aside and started my ball rolling by sending the Data protection act letter to my branch manager.

 

*EDIT: Just re-reading the thread and wanted to correct this. The letter was addressed to my branch manager (Along with sort code) but I posted it to :

 

Penny Berryman

Senior Manager

Data Protection Dept.

48, Chiswell Street

London EC1Y 4X

 

/EDIT*

 

From statements I have, I'm lead to believe that I have been charged in excess of £400. To be safe I thought it best to get a complete record of transactions. I am very interested to see how this progresses and will keep this board posted of proceedings...

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Taking a look on my online banking portal I can see that lloyds have taken more than I had initially speculated and to say I'm shocked would be an understatement.

 

Grand total (With 8% interest) is a staggering £1,518! I'd be delighted to get that back...

 

I am not including Overdraft interest in this total because as I understand it this is the only legit fee they are allowed to charge. + I was only able to go back until April 2002 (Earliest the lloydstsb website will let you go) so the actual amount I am owed is likely to be higher...

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  • 2 weeks later...

No reply heard from the bank. Not even a standard letter, So I have sent the letter again with 1st reminder letter stamped on the header. The date I've left as 13th Mar.

 

Just out of curiosity what would I do if they do not respond?

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No reply heard from the bank. Not even a standard letter, So I have sent the letter again with 1st reminder letter stamped on the header. The date I've left as 13th Mar.

 

Just out of curiosity what would I do if they do not respond?

Did you send the £10?

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No I did not send the £10 with my initial DPA disclosure letter.

 

Howerver, This morning I received a brown A4 envelope from Birmingham with a SAE and letter asking me to sign a copy of the letter sent to allow them to debit my account the £10 fee. This I will do today.

 

For the records this is the letter received:

 

"Your request for information under the Data protection Act 1998

 

thank you for contacting Lloyds TSB bank Plc to request transaction listings and details of events requiring manual intervention.

 

We will be pleased to provide this information on your account. If you require information on any other products or services (E.G. from Lloyds TSB General Insurance or other Lloyds TSB Group companies) please let us know.

 

As permitted by the Data Protection Act, the fee for providing personal information is £10. I would be grateful if you could please sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter in the prepaid envelope I've provided as your authority to debit your account with the fee or alternatively send us the appropriate amount by cheque. We require a cheque made payable to Lloyds TSB Bank plc - Please don't send cash.

 

Under the Act we are allowed up to forty days to fulfil your request starting from the receipt of the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Your sincerely

 

Chris Brown

Copy Statement Unit. "

 

 

The Address of the SAE is:

 

DSAR,

Lloyds TSB Bank Plc

2138 coventry Road,

Sheldon,

Brimingham

B26 3JW.

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Under the Act we are allowed up to forty days to fulfil your request starting from the receipt of the fee.

 

Interesting, so as I sent mine last Monday I can assume fairly that they got it Wednesday, so can assume the 40 days start from there ?

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Yes, if you sent your £10. Did you also send by special delivery or recorded post? - if not I guess they could say they didnt receive the letter and stall in that way...

Status:

 

Halifax - DPA sent 03/03/06.

Prelim Letter - Sent 27/03/06 ignored.

LBA sent 10/04/06 - Ignored

Moneyclaim filed - 26.04.06

Acknowledgement received 3rd May. Halifax state they intend to defend.

Halifax Settled in Full - 17 May 2006

 

If you've found this post helpful, I would be grateful if you could click on the 'Scales of Justice' button in the top right corner of this post.

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Personally I'm not taking any risks of another stall. I dated and signed the letter and returned by recorded delivery this afternoon. The photocopy of the letter which acknowledges the request of my original letter and the Royal Mail receipt of returned delivery should be enough to convice the Information Comissioner of a breach should the need arise.

 

I have a fairly good understanding of what is owed to me, but need the statements to confirm and to obtain the charges for the year 2000 to 2002 which I can't see through the web banking portal.

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A Recent Development. the letter I sent recorded delivery was returned unsigned for. I phoned up the number on the header of Mr Browns letter requesting payment to complain and spoke to a gently spoken girl which made it hard to be angry. I now have a new address to which to send my £10 fee.

 

DSAR (C49)

Lloyds TSB.

Charlton Place,

Andover,

Hampshire,

SP10 1RE.

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An unexpected delivery was waiting on my door step when I returned home from work yesterday. Posted from a Birmingham address over 400 sheets of bank statatements covering the last 6 years. Envelope was ripped (Sound familiar?) and contained in a plastic Parcel force envelope professing their sincere apologies that the envelope was damaged in transit...

 

The standard cover letter reads:

 

Swallow House,

PO Box 139

10, Swallow Street

Birmigham

B1 2AL

 

Your Request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998

 

I am pleased to enclose the information whichhas been compiled in accordance with the act.

 

Should you require any further clarification regarding any of the material provided then please contact this office for guidance.

 

Chris Brown

Copy Statement Unit.

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A Recent Development. the letter I sent recorded delivery was returned unsigned for. I phoned up the number on the header of Mr Browns letter requesting payment to complain and spoke to a gently spoken girl which made it hard to be angry. I now have a new address to which to send my £10 fee.

 

DSAR (C49)

Lloyds TSB.

Charlton Place,

Andover,

Hampshire,

SP10 1RE.

 

Had you sent your letter to Chiswell St?

 

I ask because i posted my DPA request to Chiswell St yesterday.

 

Is this just another delaying tactic from Lloyds?

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No. As indicated on the first page of this thread, I initially sent my DPA request to:

 

Penny Berryman

Senior Manager

Data Protection Dept.

48, Chiswell Street

London EC1Y 4X

 

The response for £10 fee came back from Chiswell street. with a Self addressed Envelope to the DSAR Dept. When I phoned up to complain that no one was signing for the Data protection request letters I was sending I spoke to a lady in DSAR Dept in Andover. A couple of days later I got the statements.

 

Lloyds have so many departments. I would stick to sending DPA Requests to Penny Berryman along with the £10 Fee. But I'm sure it will find it's way to the correct person if you sent a cheque along with you DPA to Chiswell street...

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Sent Initial Approach for refund using the template from the libray of £2082.10 Today to my Branch Manager. Whilst I wait for them to send the inevitable standard responses I will draft the letter before action. So Sure that I will need to send it in a fortnight, I have already gone to the expense of purchasing the stamp required...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yesterday I received the expected reply from Lloyds. I'd sent the first approach for repayment to my local branch in Victoria. The reply came back from Customer care, 125 Colmore Row, Birmingham. Enclosed was a customer service leaflet on how to voice your concerns (I'll enjoy wiping my ass on that later) and a letter that goes somthing like:

 

Dear Mr Evans

 

RE: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses And Returned Items

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your account.

 

I understand that

 

* You feel that the charges you have incurred are unlawful.

* You are unhappy with the amount of charges you have incurred as a result of being overdrawn and from returned items.

* Yuo have requested that all charges incurred should be refunded for the past 6 years.

 

When becoming a customer, we give you details of any charges for the day to day running of your account... yadda yadda.. blah blah... Were right your wrong...

 

It carries on over 2 pages. I reconginse the opening paragraph from others I've read on the site.

 

Anyway, I have drafted the next phase, The letter before action is ready to be posted tomorrow, 2 weeks after my previous letter..

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Got a reply to the letter before action letter I sent last week.

Received from Customer Care - General Banking,125 Colmore Row,Birmingham.

 

"Dear Mr Evans

 

Thank you for you letter dated 21 April 2006. I am sorry to hear tha you have not been happy with my response to date.

 

Unfortunately there is little I am able to add to my letter dated 18 April 2006 and I am only able to refer you back to the terms and conditions of your account, although I do respect your opinion about our charges.

 

This letter is the banks final response, which means that if you remain dissatisfied you may refer your complaint to the financial ombudsman service. If you decide to pursue your compaint through the financial ombudsman service you must do so within 6 months from the date of this letter. I have enclosed a leaflet, which outlines how to contact them.

 

Yours sincerely

 

David Just

Assistant Manager"

 

Needles to say I shall be ignoring Mr Justs advice about the FOS. Instead I will be submitting my claim to the courts on Friday 5th May to get my money back.

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Have just created my Moneyclaim account and started drafting my claim using the help provided from the library. Am taking some time to double check my figures before I submit on Monday morning. It's looking as though the final figure is going to be in well excess of £2600. Good news as this will clear my O/Draft. I know I still have a slog to go but I would like to thank all members and especially the organisers of this site. It has beed a great help and fueld my confidence that the money is mine... Thanks!

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  • 4 months later...

Finally got the information together and submitted my Money Claim today. My claim# is 6QZ64040 with the total coming to £2332+£120 Fee. lets see how this rides out...

 

Yes I have opened a new joint account with my wife. It is primarily for savings but I could always jump ship if things get nasty with Lloyds.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Received Notice that acknowledgment of service has been filed today.

Lloyds now has 28 days from the date of service of the claim form to file a defence. The notice was deemed served on 23rd Sept 2006.

 

Lloyds Solicitors tasked with defending are Sechiari Clark and Mitchell based in Brighton.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Received a notice of Transfer of Proceedings today along with Lloyds Defence and a questionnaire from the court (+ a request for a further £100 Fee).

 

The claim is now being dealt with Staines County Court.

 

The Lloyds defence is as follows:

 

"1. The Dfendant Lloyds TSB Bank Plc (The Bank) is a Bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incoporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free. notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing;

cheques

bankstatements

the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

debit cards

ATMs (Cashmachines)

3. By mainintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the bank's own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that there are normally no charges for everyday banking at LloydsTSB when your account is in credit.

When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply.

If you want to use a service that we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead.

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Banks loss.

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as a debits on the following months statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

6. The charges are fair and reaonable, and it is denied they are unlawful.

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charge are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

8.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

9. The Claimants claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank."

 

Is that a standard go away defence?

 

The small claims track allocation questionnaire (section g) asks for other information. Should I make any request for the bank to provide additional information or just leave it blank?

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  • 1 month later...

Got a couple of letters from courts today. Staines court sent me a General Form of Judgment or Order that the The claim be trasferred to Guildford County Court for the attention of the district Judge Raeside.

 

Shortly followed a couple of days latter with a letter from the Guildford county court with another General Form of Judgment or Order that the Defedant supplies information by 5th Jan 2007.

 

Ho-hum, Time to go back to sleep and wait...

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