G E Money and Secret Commissions

[michellej1]

getting a copy of agreement up now ,

[michellej1]

[AA99]

Can Michelle start her own thread and use photobucket to upload that document? Please Then we can get stuck in

[michellej1]

Hi , will give it a try as would love to hear others thoughts on this ,..

[michellej1]

[michellej1]

is this of any use ,.. thanks

[frettful38]

Its very hard to make out michellej1. Have you tried using photobucket?

[michellej1]

Hi there again Frettful , yes this was with photobucket, am i doing something wrong ?

[frettful38]

Hi michellej1, 1st of all you have blanked out all the figures which makes it difficult for anyone to read and advise. I don't know exactly how you copied and pasted the form on to the post/screen either.

Did you press copy and just paste it on or did you copy the link and then paste it on?

[michellej1]

Hi just copied and pasted it ,.. and if i left in the figures would it not be easily figured out who's agreement it is from the guest's who visit with the sole purpose of seeing the evidence/case against them ( G E )

[maybelline]

todays Observer, article entitled 'Debts that just grow and grow'

 

'Borrowers in severe debt difficulties are being charged thousands of pounds in interest by a company that has bought their loans'...

basically I am summarising now so do not quote me, read the article, it says that customers who have an IVA or even a CCJ are still being charged thousands of pounds in interest by a company called Link Financial who acquired loans originating from GE Money Home Lending part of General Electric.

 

apparently somewhere in their t&c's they state that they can continue to charge interest,

 

one customers loan after link got hold of it in 2004, went from £3, 829 to £52,000 despite having an IVA.

[michellej1]

Hi do you have a link to that info , definately worth a read ,.. thanks

[andrew1]

todays Observer, article entitled 'Debts that just grow and grow'

 

'Borrowers in severe debt difficulties are being charged thousands of pounds in interest by a company that has bought their loans'...

basically I am summarising now so do not quote me, read the article, it says that customers who have an IVA or even a CCJ are still being charged thousands of pounds in interest by a company called Link Financial who acquired loans originating from GE Money Home Lending part of General Electric.

 

apparently somewhere in their t&c's they state that they can continue to charge interest,

 

one customers loan after link got hold of it in 2004, went from £3, 829 to £52,000 despite having an IVA.

 

 

Just goes to show what a wunch of bankers they all are doesn't it? IVA means exactly that a Voluntary arrangement with your creditors x amount in the pound and you are protected by the law from litigation. Link Financial are a bunch of parasites who need the same treatment as Cabot got.

 

Off with their heads..

[enslaved]

Hi

 

3 Secret commissions and now a secret overrider fee.

 

If none of the above appear on the agreement, i.e

 

There are no deductions from the loan.

 

There is no mention of them in any calculations.

 

You have no knowledge of them.

 

Yes it's secret but;

Where do they get the money to pay these fees/commissions?

 

Crack that, game over?

[Sparkie1723]

Hi

 

3 Secret commissions and now a secret overrider fee.

 

If none of the above appear on the agreement, i.e

 

There are no deductions from the loan.

 

There is no mention of them in any calculations.

 

You have no knowledge of them.

 

Yes it's secret but;

Where do they get the money to pay these fees/commissions?

 

Crack that, game over?

 

 

AS the TV advert says SIMPLES:D YOU pay it through the APR that's what secretly increases yor interest rate, .....Baskets:-x

sparkie

[enslaved]

Hi Sparkie

Yeah it is, (as they say in America).

 

But is it in the audit trail?

can you get one?

If you can prove it is and the commission is secret and they have to repay it, is the APR on the agreement now wrongly stated?

If it is, then is the agreement unenforceable?

 

That is where i'm going with this?

 

p.s. Has anyone ever recieved their PPI policy?

 

Many Thanks

[enslaved]

 

So if it's in the APR it must be collected from the payments, (found them).

 

The balance is not affected by these entries:eek:

 

Therefore they must be allocated to a mirror account with a lower APR/interest rate?

 

And this account is the one they must use for their trading accounts, etc?

 

Many Thanks

[enslaved]

Sorry that is not clear

 

It's because in the mirror account they would have added on all the commissions/fees to the loan amount.

 

Which is why the APR/interest rate would be lower.

 

Does this make sense, or have I lost it:eek:

[AA99]

It's obviously hidden in the juggling of the figures in the sales invoice full stop

 

Used car salesman doesn't have a ring about it for nothing! Not for this old girl anyway

[jdene]

as i see it the way they hide it is this for example the actual apr they want is say 10% for simplicity but the commissions come to say £3k so to cover these they simply charge you 12% apr and then there is no trail or figures to show on the agreement and all the working out is done on the underwriting sheets etc which they will not give you no matter what, then the crippler is if you ask for disclosure you may be asked as some have to prove that secret commissions have been paid to justify asking the court to order disclosure, but if you could get hold of all documents used to calculate your loan and commissions then jackpot. at least thats what i think they do i could be way out.

[michellej1]

Think you have hit the nail on the head , this is how they do business , you ar also correct totally refused to send underwriters sheet , and said prove secret commisiions ,.. well my agreement does not show i paid commission to broker (which i did by the way ) it certainly does not show lenders paid brokers ,.. so who did ? and considering my broker were tied to they lenders ,.. then why would they lenders pass on our customer to another company especially as they are paying brokers ,.. and then expect us to believe no commissions pass hands ,.. and like you say its proving it ,.. and as judges are lender friendly might be even harder ,.. so thats why unfair relationship is a killer to attack and great as a defence ,..

 

Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

(5) Schedule 2 to these Regulations contains an indicative and non-exhaustive list of the terms which may be regarded as unfair.

Assessment of unfair terms

6. - (1) Without prejudice to regulation 12, the unfairness of a contractual term shall be assessed, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and by referring, at the time of conclusion of the contract, to all the circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and to all the other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent.

(2) In so far as it is in plain intelligible language, the assessment of fairness of a term shall not relate-

 

(a) to the definition of the main subject matter of the contract, or

(b) to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange.

 

Written contracts

7. - (1) A seller or supplier shall ensure that any written term of a contract is expressed in plain, intelligible language.

(2) If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail but this rule shall not apply in proceedings brought under regulation 12.

Effect of unfair term

8. - (1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

(2) The contract shall continue to bind the parties if it is capable of continuing in existence without the unfair term.

 

INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR

 

1. Terms which have the object or effect of-

 

(a) excluding or limiting the legal liability of a seller or supplier in the event of the death of a consumer or personal injury to the latter resulting from an act or omission of that seller or supplier;

(b) inappropriately excluding or limiting the legal rights of the consumer vis-à-vis the seller or supplier or another party in the event of total or partial non-performance or inadequate performance by the seller or supplier of any of the contractual obligations, including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the seller or supplier against any claim which the consumer may have against him;

© making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realisation depends on his own will alone;

 

(NOT advising about the ppi ~ as a service sold in the form of payment protection insurance , should not on my realisation of my own will ,)

 

(d) permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;

(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

 

My high compensation payments £220 per month rising to £450 per month at present day ,.. and due to G E MONEY's mistake

 

(f) authorising the seller or supplier to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the consumer, or permitting the seller or supplier to retain the sums paid for services not yet supplied by him where it is the seller or supplier himself who dissolves the contract;

(g) enabling the seller or supplier to terminate a contract of indeterminate duration without reasonable notice except where there are serious grounds for doing so;

(h) automatically extending a contract of fixed duration where the consumer does not indicate otherwise, when the deadline fixed for the consumer to express his desire not to extend the contract is unreasonably early;

(i) irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

(j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract;

(k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;

(l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded;

 

The rise in interest rates increased the price for services and was never given corresponding rights to cancel the agreement ,as the unexpected rate rise would of left final price too high in relations to price agreed and forcing me into breach without my rights been offered to cancel the said agreement in question

 

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract;

(n) limiting the seller's or supplier's obligation to respect commitments undertaken by his agents or making his commitments subject to compliance with a particular formality;

(o) obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller or supplier does not perform his;

(p) giving the seller or supplier the possibility of transferring his rights and obligations under the contract, where this may serve to reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the latter's agreement;

(q) excluding or hindering the consumer's right to take legal action or exercise any other legal remedy, particularly by requiring the consumer to take disputes exclusively to arbitration not covered by legal provisions, unduly restricting the evidence available to him or imposing on him a burden of proof which, according to the applicable law, should lie with another party to the contract.

 

Mis-leading us to contact OFT knowing our agreement was before OFT regulation dates ,..

 

2. Scope of paragraphs 1(g), (j) and (l)

 

(a) Paragraph 1(g) is without hindrance to terms by which a supplier of financial services reserves the right to terminate unilaterally a contract of indeterminate duration without notice where there is a valid reason, provided that the supplier is required to inform the other contracting party or parties thereof immediately.

(b) Paragraph 1(j) is without hindrance to terms under which a supplier of financial services reserves the right to alter the rate of interest payable by the consumer or due to the latter, or the amount of other charges for financial services without notice where there is a valid reason, provided that the supplier is required to inform the other contracting party or parties thereof at the earliest opportunity and that the latter are free to dissolve the contract immediately.

 

Without a valid reason I should of been informed of interest rate rises as monies payable would alter also ,.. I should be informed at the earliest opportunity and that I had a option to dissolve the contract

 

Paragraph 1(j) is also without hindrance to terms under which a seller or supplier reserves the right to alter unilaterally the conditions of a contract of indeterminate duration, provided that he is required to inform the consumer with reasonable notice and that the consumer is free to dissolve the contract.

 

indeterminate duration ,... this will point to the fact that my agreement quoted in contract had no indeterminate durtion / end date in sight due to unlawful charges added to account at the start of agreement

 

 

© Paragraphs 1(g), (j) and (l) do not apply to:

 

- transactions in transferable securities, financial instruments and other products or services where the price is linked to fluctuations in a stock exchange quotation or index or a financial market rate that the seller or supplier does not control; - contracts for the purchase or sale of foreign currency, traveller's cheques or international money orders denominated in foreign currency;

(d) Paragraph 1(l) is without hindrance to price indexation clauses, where lawful, provided that the method by which prices vary is explicitly described.

Edited February 12, 2010 by michellej1

[Sparkie1723]

as i see it the way they hide it is this for example the actual apr they want is say 10% for simplicity but the commissions come to say £3k so to cover these they simply charge you 12% apr and then there is no trail or figures to show on the agreement and all the working out is done on the underwriting sheets etc which they will not give you no matter what, then the crippler is if you ask for disclosure you may be asked as some have to prove that secret commissions have been paid to justify asking the court to order disclosure, but if you could get hold of all documents used to calculate your loan and commissions then jackpot. at least thats what i think they do i could be way out.

 

 

I am certain that you are 100% correct, but that is only my lowly opinion

 

sparkie

[HomerJSimpson]

as i see it the way they hide it is this for example the actual apr they want is say 10% for simplicity but the commissions come to say £3k so to cover these they simply charge you 12% apr and then there is no trail or figures to show on the agreement and all the working out is done on the underwriting sheets etc which they will not give you no matter what, then the crippler is if you ask for disclosure you may be asked as some have to prove that secret commissions have been paid to justify asking the court to order disclosure, but if you could get hold of all documents used to calculate your loan and commissions then jackpot. at least thats what i think they do i could be way out.

 

 

That seems feasable to me. However you can get the underwriting sheet, but not from GE. GE's contentious litigation dept will do everything possible to keep it from you. If you SAR the solicitors they used, Bernard Elliston, Sandler & Co or Eversheds or some other lowlife, they will eventually roll over and give you the information you want.

 

Underwriting sheet details the secret commissions, 10% of the loan in my case, but doesn't appear to give any details of hiked APR. I guess thats in another document GE want kept well hidden. Or I'm not clever enough to figure it out. Very possible.

 

As posted before, here's what a GE underwriting sheet looks like. Igroup at the time of my loan.

 

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5409/underwritingsheetsafe.jpg

 

 

 

Credit to micko19 for steering me in this direction.

Edited February 12, 2010 by HomerJSimpson

[frettful38]

Excellent information Homer

[missdpd]

Having used to work in the car finance industry, I can confirm the way that a majority of car dealers would work their deals and would imagine it is much the same across the board for any other type of finance company.

 

When dealers phoned in to ask for a 'deal' to be worked out, they almost always asked us to input on the system the amount of commission they were looking for first and foremost and work backwards from that. The system would generate figures based on that commission; monthly payments, apr etc and the dealer could then ask us to adjust the commission until the dealer was happy with it and thought he could sell the figures to the customer.

 

xx