Help needed - Stat Demand from 1st Credit

[thewardrobe]

Hi there - wonder if anyone can help me..

 

I had a credit card debt which I fell behind with the repayments and was passed to 1st Credit. This morning I've received thru the post a 'Statutory Demand under section 268(1)(a) of the Insolvency Act 1986. Debt for Liquidated Sum payable Immediately' for £2382.33.

 

I don't dispute that I know I owe the money, I don't know if the amount is 100% correct - but I have tried to tell John Lewis - who I originally owed the money to why I was having problems and I also then discussed this with First Credit.

 

My partner died suddenly 2 years ago leaving me as a single parent with a 13 month baby and I contacted them to explain my situation. I was plunged into financial difficulties. We survive on benefits and tax credits, and I don't own any assets.

 

What should I do next? I have tried to call them but I get incredibly upset trying to talk about these things over the phone and I have written to them so many times showing I don't have any income or spare cash to give them. How do I respond to this Stat Demand?

 

p.s. Two other debts I had (Egg and a loan with RBOS) as soon as they read my original letters in summer 2006 explaining the details around my partners death, which I've not gone into here, wrote off the debts which were for considerably more than this credit card debt.

[rippedoffagain]

Have they obtained a County Court Judgement for the debt?

[thewardrobe]

Hi there - thanks for replying! No they haven't - this Stat Demand just landed through the post this morning.. previously all their letters just asked for payment..

[rippedoffagain]

I am not an expert on SD, but I would have thought that a set aside could be obtained on the grounds that the debt has not been proved. A SD is not to be used as a debt collection tool.

[thewardrobe]

So what would you recommend I do next?

[Michael Browne]

You do need to apply to set it aside using forms 6.4 and 6.5 which you can download here:

England and Wales Forms

 

SD's are explained here:

Legal Issues Explained - Statutory Demand

 

1st Credit are issuing SD's like they're going out of fashion at the moment, but they don't often issue actual petitions. On the other hand you've nothing to lose applying for a set aside.

 

We survive on benefits and tax credits, and I don't own any assets.

I assume this means you don't own your house, which means that it is even more likely that the SD from 1st Credit is bluff, since it would cost them to present a bankruptcy petition with little hope of their being paid.

[thewardrobe]

Thanks Michael for that! My daughter and I live in a privately rented house so no even if they made me bankrupt they'd not gain anything..

 

The Stat Demand says -

 

''...the appropriate court is (YOUR LOCAL COUNTY COURT.) Any application by you to set aside this demand should be made to that court. FOR CONFIRMATION OF YOUR RELEVANT COURT,OR IF YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE GROUNDS TO SET ASIDE THIS DEMAND PLEASE CONTACT OUR OFFICE ON 02082530343''

 

I really do not want to call them to 'discuss' this as I have spoken to them on the phone before and never gotten anywhere except in tears!Does it cost money to apply for 'set aside'? And what does this actually mean?

 

If I don't contact them about this demand, which they have no proof I've actually received it, what will their next step likely to be? They know I rent, on benefits etc etc..

 

Thank you again for your help!

[rippedoffagain]

I believe you can claim costs from them, for your time etc. I don't think it costs to apply for a set aside.

[thewardrobe]

Thanks guys for your replies - on what grounds could I say its disputed?

 

Should I do the SAR & CCA letters which I've seen on many posts? Would these mean that I'd acknowledged receipt of the Stat Demand?

 

Apologies for all the questions! I really haven't a clue...

[Michael Browne]

Should I do the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) & CCA letters which I've seen on many posts?

Yes, ASAP. See letter N here:

Creditors and DCAs - Consumer Wiki

If they don't supply this within 12 days, this is grounds to have the SD set aside

I don't dispute that I know I owe the money, I don't know if the amount is 100% correct

The chances are that there are charges and additional interest.

 

If the amount claimed in the demand includes-

 

(a) Any charge by way of interest not previously notified to the debtor as a liability of his, or

(b) Any other charge accruing from time to time.

 

Then the amount or rate of the charge must be separately identified, and the grounds on which payment of it is claimed must be stated, which I assume they haven't done. This is further grounds

 

This thread may be of help:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133405-lowell-statutory-demand-can.html

[Tiber]

I have also received a Statutory Demand, dated 15 July, from 1st Credit - signed by Mr D. Silcock - which I found quite worrying.

 

Reading these posts has been quite helpful so, sorry for butting in on the wardrobe's post but thanks everybody for the info.

 

By the way, in case it's of any help, I sent a CCA letter to 1st Credit on 2 April and although no CCA has been sent to me - nor did they return my £1.00 - I do have a letter from them, dated 2 May stating, "... I agree that this debt is unenforceable at this time. Once our client has provided a true copy it will of course be payable in full".

 

I shall be sending a copy of this to Mr Silcock and would certainly advise theardrobe to issue the CCA and S.A.R letters as 1st Credit do not always follow the correct procedure before issuing these demands.

 

The UK Insolvency Helpline website has a really helpful section all about Statutory Demands. It set my mind at rest, have a look at it.

[Michael Browne]

Tiber, you should still ask to have the SD set aside, using forms 6.4 &6.5 here:

England and Wales Forms

 

Here is a sample grounds, which you can amend to suit:

 

I apply for the statutory demand to be set aside as the creditor has failed to comply with its obligations under the Consumer Credit Act, and I believe that the creditor issued this statutory demand as an abuse of process intended to pressure me into paying the full amount of a disputed debt contrary to the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

 

The creditor has defaulted under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for failing to provide a copy of the alleged agreement on request within the prescribed period. Under the provisions of s78 (6), the creditor is not entitled to enforce the alleged agreement while this default continues. My request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was sent to First Credit Limited, who claims to be dealing with the alleged agreement and have raised the statutory demand. This request was received and signed for on xx/xx/xx

 

Further, I believe that the amount of £XXXX referred to in the statutory demand includes a substantial sum of unlawful penalty charges. First Credit Limited have not provided further information regarding the charges they have added to the account, and still have not provided a statement of account (as requested under s78 CCA 1974).

[Tiber]

Tiber, you should still ask to have the SD set aside, using forms 6.4 &6.5 here:

England and Wales Forms

 

Here is a sample grounds, which you can amend to suit:

 

Thanks for that. I have tipped your scales accordingly.

[thewardrobe]

Thanks everyone for your replies - Mr Silcock has odviously been a busy guy recently signing all these Demands hey Tiber?

 

 

So Tiber - are you doing the set aside?

[thewardrobe]

Do I have time to send both CCA and SAR before the 18 days and then apply to set aside? Or do I send them off and apply for set aside at the same time disputing the amount?

 

Again apologies for alll the questions but everyone's help is greatly appreciated! x

[thewardrobe]

Sorry another questions - I currently using one of the templates asking for CCA and SAR - and I'm trying to work out what address to send it to =

 

The sta demand has an address in Guernsey as 1st Credit being the creditor but then further down states that Mr D Silcock of Connaught Collections UK Ltd in Croydon is the DCA..... so who do I send the CCA/SAR request to then??

[thewardrobe]

Do I have time to send both CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) before the 18 days and then apply to set aside? Or do I send them off and apply for set aside at the same time disputing the amount?

 

I'm currently using one of the templates asking for CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - and I'm trying to work out what address to send it to =

 

The sta demand has an address in Guernsey as 1st Credit being the creditor but then further down states that Mr D Silcock of Connaught Collections UK Ltd in Croydon is the DCA..... so who do I send the CCA/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to then?? The original debt was to John Lewis - so now I'm really confused as to who I should send the letters to?

 

Many thanks for your help with this.

[babybear39]

You need to send the CCA request to this person at 1st crud, copy the request to connaught as they're only acting as agents:

 

1st Credit Limited

 

The Omnibus Building

Lesbourne Road

Reigate

Surrey

RH2 7JP

 

 

 

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) reques Subject Access Request - Consumer Wiki needs to be sent to the original creditor.

 

Amend both to suit, DO NOT SIGN, print your name, send recorded and keep copies of the letters and all correspondence with your postal receipts.

 

Apply for the Stat demand set aside ASAP at your local county court (call to check if they deal with them as not all do), it's free and the court staff should help you. The grounds are that the debt is not proved and the balance is not correct due to charges etc...

 

Good luck and best wishes.

Edited October 9, 2008 by alanfromderby

[thewardrobe]

Thanks BabyBear39 so much - the demand list 1st Credit (Guernsey) limited as the creditor with a different address than the one you have listed? Should I therefore post it to the address in Guernsey on the stat demand or the one you have provided?

 

Again many thanks for your help. I think without this site's help over the weekend I would have pulled out all my hair with worry.

[babybear39]

Disregard the Guernsey address, it has no bearing on where to send the CCA request. I would usually advise sending the CCA request to connaughts as they are the one's acting for 1st crud. But all that will achieve is that connaughts waste time and pass the request to 1st crud anyway. So, to save time, send the CCA request to the Reigate address.

 

1st crud have purchased the account from the original creditor, that's why they're mentioned as the creditor on the stat demand.

 

Do you know who the original creditor was? Bank?

 

To see the correct amount of charges on the account the SAR must go to the company that originally gave you the credit.

 

1st crud only have to provide a statement of the account whilst it's been with them. They may have added charges too.

[Tiber]

Thanks everyone for your replies - Mr Silcock has odviously been a busy guy recently signing all these Demands hey Tiber?

 

 

So Tiber - are you doing the set aside?

 

I have posted my reply to Connaught this morning. I'll complete the Set Aside papers and take them to my local court sometime next week - just to be on the safe side - whatever reply I get.

 

However, I am wondering if I'd be better off just letting this go to court and present my CCA request letter, my follow-up letter and 1st Credit's "unenforceable ..." reply to the court.

 

From talking to people who have been through this process it seems that the courts tend to be far more understanding and realistic than the companies chasing the debts. (Let's face it, the debt collection agencies just want their money and are prepared to lie, harass and cajole you to get it).

 

I know this whole process is often quite worrying but in reality debt collection agencies are just companies with no more authority over you than I have. If you choose to ignore them there is not a thing they can do about it without obtaining a Court Order and no court is going to order you to make any unreasonable payments or commitments as long as you are honest with them and making somebody on benefits bankrupt would not be in the interests of any company to whom you owe money.

 

Then again, if you wanted to you could petition for your own bankruptcy. Best time to do that is when you don't have any assets. Some serious consideration and proper advice would be needed before doing that though.

 

In respect of the CCA/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letters; I sent mine to the Reigate address and that is where they replied from.

 

The time limits have elapsed and I am considering filing a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman but doubt whether they will actually do much other than ask if I've had a final response, etc. (Who exactly deals with companies that ignore the law relating to the CCA time limits I have no idea, it certainly isn't the FOS. If anybody could let me know I'd be grateful).

[babybear39]

The OFT can enforce via Trading Standards under the CPUTR 2008.

[Tiber]

The OFT can enforce via Trading Standards under the CPUTR 2008.

 

Thanks very much for that babybear. I have made two seperate complaints to the FOS and one of them was returned to me saying that they had contacted Abbey and that they (Abbey) should get in touch with me within 8 weeks. All this after I had gone through the CCA process and already given Abbey and their agent months to send me a copy of the relevant CAA. (They kept my £1.00 though, which I think is rather a cheek).

 

I shall mention this CPUTR 2008 to the FOS.

 

Thanks again.

[babybear39]

The FOS will only intervene if you have exhausted Abbey's internal complaints procedure. Write requesting this. Make a formal complaint sending recorded delivery. If they fail to resolve your complaint within 8 weeks you can then complain to the FOS.

 

The CPUTR 2008 should be used with complaints to Trading Standards and the OFT. If you are chased for payment whilst Abbey or their agents are in default of your CCA request, then is the time to complain to TS and the OFT.

[thewardrobe]

So now I'm confused - on this site some say do not acknowledge 1st Credit's Stat Demands even with a CCA or SAR as this acknowledges that you've received the demand 'confetti' as they will not enforce them - so what would their action likely to be next?

 

Or if I do do the CCA/SAR approach and then heaven help me they manage to find all the correct paperwork what would happen then? My situation still hasn't altered so would they then sell the debt onto another DCA and the ball starts rolling all over again?

 

Their last letter saying that they were going to send a Stat Demand says 'we are unaware of any valid reason for your non-payment' - which really annoys me as they know I'm not only a single parent widow on benefits but also living with a life limiting illness!