CL Finance - Debenhams

[TMAngel]

Hi. I'm just going through all credit agreements to apply for refund on PPI.

 

My Debenhams account was assigned to CL Finance in Dec 2006 apparantly under the terms and conditions of my credit agreement with GE Money.

 

Where do I stand with getting copy statements and agreements - do I contact GE Money or CL Finance?

 

Surely if CL Finance were assigned the account they should have a copy of the agreement or should they have made me agree to their terms???

 

I had a Notice of Assignment from CL Finance

 

Has anyone else had any dealings with GE or CL Finance??

[adamski]

Ok

I have experience with both GE and CL.

First things first I take it you are in debt with GE who passed the account onto Cl who will take you to court have no doubt about that please.

 

Ok the first thing you need to do is send a CCA request to CL to buy you more time.

 

Here is a letter I have used that is not pre posted on this site and send it to CL recorded delivery without delay also remember that CL are part of the Lewis Group look them up on google for more info or just ask me.

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

 

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Ok once you have sent this then deal with GE, you need to send them a template letter for PPi and for charges.

 

Here is is a link to template PPi letter scroll down until you find it.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/61081-ppi-some-notes-claimants.html

 

If you require more help just ask on this thread i will keep my eye out for you

Regards

Adamski

Edited July 21, 2008 by adamski

[TMAngel]

Hi Adamski

 

Sorry for late reply but been on holiday and busy at work!

 

Think I might not have been clear in the last post. CL Finance have stopped the threatening letters now as I've been paying them an agreed amount for over 18 months for the Debenhams debt.

 

But I'm now looking at claiming back PPI on various credit accounts that's why I needed to know who to CCA to see if I'd ever paid any PPI on this account.

 

I sent my CCA request and £1 postal order to CL on 12 August and have had no response as yet - so thats 15 days putting CL in default.

 

I haven't CCA'd GE Capital because I now deal with CL Finance and they should be able to provide a copy of the CCA as they have been assigned the debt.

 

I'm in the same situation with Cabot. I'm looking at sending a letter stating they are in default for non-compliance of the CCA request and as such the debt is thefore unenforceable. But as a gesture of my goodwill I will offer a F&F settlement of say 5-10% of the debt..

 

I've been advised that I can stop payments but I really can't go through all the hassle of phone calls, threatening letters etc and would rather pay a small sum to get this debt paid off.

 

what do you think?

[Born To Be]

I'm in the same situation with Cabot. I'm looking at sending a letter stating they are in default for non-compliance of the CCA request and as such the debt is thefore unenforceable. But as a gesture of my goodwill I will offer a F&F settlement of say 5-10% of the debt..

 

I've been advised that I can stop payments but I really can't go through all the hassle of phone calls, threatening letters etc and would rather pay a small sum to get this debt paid off.

 

what do you think?

 

I can't comment about CL finance as I am only looking at this thread for inspiration to start my own battle against them. However, in regards to Cabot ... I CCA'd them in Feb for both mine and my hubbys credit cards (total approx £7k) received acknowledgements and letters back saying they couldn't provide and account is on hold until they do - this was Feb 08 - few weeks ago got letters saying they had stopped action on our account as they couldn't provide docs but if original creditor found them they would get in touch

 

So obviously your decision but we didn't get any threatening phone calls or hassling letters

 

Good Luck

[TMAngel]

Well low and behold on Saturday morning a letter from CL Finance in the post with a copy of my original credit agreement for my Debenhams account - typical!

 

It looks like a genuine agreement as well so don't suppose there's a lot I can do with this one unless I offer a F&F and see if they accept.

 

Does anyone know how much CL Finance normally pay when they buy a debt - what %?

[alanalana]

Hello tmangel,

 

Well low and behold on Saturday morning a letter from CL Finance in the post with a copy of my original credit agreement for my Debenhams account - typical! Remember the agreement was with Debenhams and no one else, no DCA and if Debenhams use GE then as I see it the agreement is still with Debenhams

 

It looks like a genuine agreement as well so don't suppose there's a lot I can do with this one unless I offer a F&F and see if they accept.

 

Does anyone know how much CL Finance normally pay when they buy a debt - what %?

 

It seems to me from your original post that you had an agreement with Debenhams so I would suggest the CCA is with them as agreed by you and their representative at the time. (duly signed by both parties. There was no agreement entered into with CL finance who will be a Debt Collection Agency so you are not committed to deal with them as your CCA was with Debenhams. If GE money who deal with the Debenhams accounts wish to pass on any debt to a DCA then I see that as their problem and not yours.

 

I am no legal expert but it would in my opinion be out of line for a DCA to use the CCA as agreed with Debenhams as a way to reclaim monies from you. You had no agreement with CL finance full stop.

 

Legal advice from the site team welcome on this one.

 

aa

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi TMAngle,

Did you receive any written confirmation from Debenhams/GE Money that your account had been assigned to CL finance.

It is my opinion that if your account had been properly assigned, and the agreement isfound to be in order then CL can pursue you for payment.

In addition you could send an SAR to Debenhams/GE Money, however you have also paid monies to CL finance so that information would need come from them IMHO.

Regards

 

Andy

[TMAngel]

Hi both

 

The original agreement is with GE Capital for a Debenhams Account. I've already sent a recorded delivery request to CL Finance for a copy of the Notice of Assignment of the debt so will let you know what they come up with.

 

I'm not trying to avoid paying the debt because I've been paying CL a monthly figure for about 2 years now and they seem quite happy with this. I just wanted to to try and find a good enough 'argument' to offer them a reasonable/acceptable F&F settlement to get rid of this debt for good.

 

If they do come up with the Letter of Assignment then I'm not sure what offer to make them (£2k debt)?

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Hi TMAngle,

were any penalty charges levied on the account if so have your considered reclaiming them.

[hellhasnofury]

Hi both

 

The original agreement is with GE Capital for a Debenhams Account. I've already sent a recorded delivery request to CL Finance for a copy of the Notice of Assignment of the debt so will let you know what they come up with.

 

I'm not trying to avoid paying the debt because I've been paying CL a monthly figure for about 2 years now and they seem quite happy with this. I just wanted to to try and find a good enough 'argument' to offer them a reasonable/acceptable F&F settlement to get rid of this debt for good.

 

If they do come up with the Letter of Assignment then I'm not sure what offer to make them (£2k debt)?

 

Hello TMangel.

 

I do feel that assignment of account to a dca comes under the law of property act 1925 and I do doubt very much whether they will send you a copy of it. You can ask for it, but I would also ask whether the assignment is equitable or absolute. There is a big difference in who actually ownes or joint ownes the account.

 

Now before you fold and offer them a f & f settlement. You need to to a bit more investigating into the account. If there is any untoward with the account, then it makes a big difference as to what they will accept

 

Regarding the credit agreement, bet they jumped up and down when they found it:roll: Does it contain all of the prescribed terms it should under the cca. Is it marked application form perchance.

 

How much ppi is there on it for you to reclaim back.

Edited September 7, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[TMAngel]

Hi all

 

Just found out that PPI wasn't added to the Debenhams account. But I have received another letter from CL Finance in request of my CCA and Notice of Assignment letter:

 

They've attached a copy of the original Application Form which also states Credit Agreement regulated by CCA 1974 as well.

 

They have also enclosed a copy of a Deed of Assignment and Assignation dated 13 December 2006.

 

If someone can tell me how to upload I'll put it all on here so you can advise me on what to do next.

 

With regards to charges I didn't SAR CL Finance/GE Capital so don't have exact figures but don't expect it to be in excess o £150.

 

Where do I go from here as it looks all above board on their part?

[TMAngel]

Right I've uploaded the correspondence from CL Finance so far. Copy of Assignment, CCA and T&C's.

 

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/CCA.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/DeedPage1.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/DeedPage2.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/DeedPage3.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/Letter.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/TCs.jpg

 

Hope the attachments work ok - this is the first time I've used photobucket!

 

Let me know if you think these are enforceable

[TMAngel]

Just wondered if someone experienced could have a quick look at the documents in my previous post.

 

Are they enforceable?

 

Thanks!

[hellhasnofury]

Just wondered if someone experienced could have a quick look at the documents in my previous post.

 

Are they enforceable?

 

Thanks!

 

Hello TMA,

 

Have had a look. The credit agreement is on its side and I am unable to rotate it to have a good look. I can make out that it starts off as an application form

 

The terms and conditions are too blurred to read,so cannot see if they relate to when you opened the account.

 

The deed of assignment looks ofay, but as this is the first one that I have seen, they normally will not give it to you.

 

I feel to be honest that I does not matter if the DOA is correct or not. It comes down to the credit agreement.

[TMAngel]

Hi Hellhas

 

I've rotated the CCA and attached again. The T&C's are so small in the original so I've tried to increase but it's still very blurry.

 

I can scan again and PM you if that would make any difference at all?

 

The T&C's say in handwriting at the top - 'Debs - Pre 2005'. So not actually sure these are what was provided at the time of the Agreement...

 

If this is all above board then that's fine - at least I know I've tried!

 

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/CCA.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo354/TinaP26/TCs.jpg

 

Thanks again

[TMAngel]

Hi would someone be able to look at my last post and see if the CCA that CL Finance have provided is actually enforceable.

 

I'm pretty sure it is but just want a more experienced bod to confirm.

 

I'm trying to clear some debts so would like to offer a F&F settlement to CL Finance but obviously this amount would depend on whether the CCA is enforceable.

 

Thanks again!

[TMAngel]

Just bumping it up as I'd like someone to advise whether this is an enforceable CCA.

 

Ideally like to offer a F&F settlement pretty soon - one less debt!

 

TMA

[angel_1]

Hello TMAngel

 

im subscribing to your thread as ive had a very similar supposed cca from cl finance but ive only had the first page with my signature, but to me looks like an application for, as there is a section 5 that states" Customer information and data protection, - in assessing your application we will make enquiries about you including searching any records held by credit Reference Agencies, etc etc

 

that to me without sending me the rear where the supposed terms and conditions on he back of this agreement in section 7.

 

i didnt get more than upto section 6.

 

I think i also got a letter of assignment from cl, and had paid them a couple of months but now i too am looking at a full and final offer

but if they dont have an enforceable agreement when they bought the debt tough on them they should be accurate in such things, i will make them a reasonable offer.

 

ive tried to copy like you have but i cant get it big enough to read, its not very good copy and not clear to read before i even scan it, any suggestions pls how i can make it larger - ta very much thanks laters maz

[TMAngel]

Hi Maz

 

Sorry but I'm new to all this and haven't got a clue how to make the T&C's bigger - mine are also so small that it's hard for anyone to read them

 

I'm still waiting for someone to confirm if my agreement is enforceable or not before I offer an F&F settlement. I really don't want to offer them a high amount if it's not actually enforceable in the first place:grin:.

 

What % where you thinking of offering as a F&F?

 

Is your agreement with GE Capital for a Debenhams account? If so I'd be interested to see if they have sent the same T&C's etc

 

TMA

[angel_1]

Hello TMAngel

 

ive now managed to get mine on my thread a bit bigger but as the original is not very clear and the cca should be legible and clear its harder to scan it any better

 

i managed somehow to make it a bit bigger by using the edit button on photobucket, before you save it,

 

hope that helps,

 

well if you can go to my thread CL Finance ive had a superb reply from 42man with a great letter responce back to them so am going to do that and see then what responce i get back

 

i will defend any court action as i really feel that if a correct and valid cca is available then just supply it dont pussyfoot around and give me the runaround.

 

ive seen others offer as low as 10% if there is no enforceable cca, but then its a case of how you feel you want to deal with it

 

remember they wont have paid much for the account in the first place so if you know your rights and depends the amount is , ive seen thread that their solicitors dont even turn up to court half the time anyway, so its how far you want to persue this i guess

 

let me know what you think and i have had a look at yours and you have far more info than me but then again, its unclear, you might be able to use parts of the letter from man42 to say that what you have had is not legible and therefore its in dispute still until you get very clear and concise information

 

bye for now ciao laters maz

[TMAngel]

Hi Maz

 

I've had a look at your thread and your so called 'agreement'!

 

I definitely have more info than you - I took mine out in 1999 what year did you take yours out?

 

I've also checked what is needed to make it enforceable and am 99% sure that mine is. It has sections on APR, minimum repayment, credit limt etc.

 

I owe about £2.7k but am going to offer them a cheeky 10% F&F settlement and see what they come back with! You never know they might accept or be open to negotiations!

 

Will let you know - shall send the letter Monday now as haven't got time to go to Post Office today to send recorded (why are Fridays always so busy at work!!)

 

Adios for now:-D

TMA

[PGH7447]

subbing

[angel_1]

hiya TMAngel

 

yes fridays a bit mad, am off today but still trying to sort out my letter and get to the post office, and im at home, where does the time fly to>>lol

 

mine was in 2004 so it does seem odd to me but you do realise that when debts are sold on not all the paperwork follows on by the original creditor they are not very thorough, so good luck, and i will let you know if anything i get back

 

mine is much lower figure than yours, and i would be happy to settle at 10% so hope you get more good luck in this and get it cleared with an unenforceable agreement first

 

ciao for now laters maz - have a fun weekend

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hi Maz

 

I've had a look at your thread and your so called 'agreement'!

 

I definitely have more info than you - I took mine out in 1999 what year did you take yours out?

 

I've also checked what is needed to make it enforceable and am 99% sure that mine is. It has sections on APR, minimum repayment, credit limt etc.

 

I owe about £2.7k but am going to offer them a cheeky 10% F&F settlement and see what they come back with! You never know they might accept or be open to negotiations!

 

Will let you know - shall send the letter Monday now as haven't got time to go to Post Office today to send recorded (why are Fridays always so busy at work!!)

 

Adios for now:-D

TMA

 

 

Erm why if you took this out in 1999 doeos it state the T&C,s are pre 2003 or 5? handwritten on the top.

 

if its 2005 Me thinks those T&C may not be from your agreemant, there is certainly nothing i can see to link them, ie ref numbers etc

[adamski]

Hi

The agreement looks enforcable to me it has the prescribed terms, is the copy you hold readable?

 

Also the 1925 Law of Property Act states that the assignee has to inform you of the sale of the debt not assinnor i..e CL Finance I will look into that part for you.