mpaforall vs HSBC vs EGG

[The GodMother]

In relation to your attatchement of earnings question then no they cant as it is benefit money and they cant take it as it is not earnings.

[mpaforall]

Well an updated from HSBC mastercard. They are unable (awww no!) to provide me with a copy of my original aplication etc etc. But please find enclosed the latest T&C's and my original PO returned!

 

A scan of the letter coming up.

[mpaforall]

And the scans.

 

 

[The GodMother]

wow thanks for giving me up to date t+cs but the law requires that you provide me with the ones from when the acc was opened.

 

Thanks for saying you dont have a copy of original agreement i expect you to close the acc with a zero balance.

[mpaforall]

Excellent! I will be drafting a suitable letter for them and posting it on Monday.

 

One down..

 

Still waiting for the HSBC bank loan/dcredidt agreement, they did as per my previous post ask me for a signature (not happening anytime soon sorry!) - DG solicitors called me on Wednesday (as wella s a few STD call within 24 hours to avoid legal implications!) and I put it politely but bluntly that my case was in dispute so clear off till you have something, I also took the time to point out I had requested in writing they not call me.

 

And Egg who have yet to respond at all the 12 day's ends on the 4th so we shall see. Though to be honest I have not actually heard anyting from EG in 5 or 6 months (just the usual treats from Moorcroft)

[mpaforall]

and a development...

 

 

HSBC bank have found my loan agreement! Well apparantly so.

 

I will scan it and put it up later but there are a few minor discrepancies on it:

 

3 different fonts and sizes of text .(of which come has misalignment from faxing and some does not, My signature on it does have the lines/distortion the the date under it doesnt (and is not in my handrwiting either) but the banks signee/signature is perfect....

 

No 2nd page with the T&C's ( it's labled as page 1 of 2)

 

Most glaringly the address of the bank is not the one i opened it at ( a london branch), it's in another city where I originally opened the account bu had not lived in for 3 and a half years ( a west country branch) and i certainly wouldnt "nip along there in my lunch hour to do so)

 

There are obvious lines where ceratin sections seem to ahve been cobbled otgether.

[mpaforall]

[The GodMother]

Hang on are they saying a standing order form is a cca?

[mpaforall]

No this is my "true signed copy" of my credit agreement!

 

Despite the fact that some terms are correct it's pretty much a cut and paste job.

 

 

the bank address is one I had not used since 2001 (why yes i'll travell 150 miles to an unconveniebt branch to obtain my loan....) th header is out of sync with the numerous badly aligned boxes on the page and there seems to be no page reference nubers not T&C's etc.

It would indeed appear to be my standing order tacked onto a made up credit agreement.

Edited November 6, 2008 by mpaforall
removed erroneous apr blurb.

[mpaforall]

Ok can anyone else offer some advice on weather the Loan agreemendt is enforcable?

 

And secondly a "collector" from moorcroft turned up this evening (quite litterally 5 minutes ago!) asking if i was who i said i was and would i like to pay £XXXX in total. i told him yes i am me (well i cant really deny it) and that i would love to pay but dont ahve the money or a Job at the moment AND more importantly the account is in dispute so you shouldnt even be contacting me. Just as I was getting into the swing of it he turned round and walked off!

[The GodMother]

that is not a cca what ever the company says. That is a standing order/direct debt form. The most they can prove with that is you agreed to have the payments taken out of your bank account.

 

Anyway not mentioning that when was this loan taken out?

[mpaforall]

The HSBC loan was taken out in January 05 (i for the life of me cannot remeber what date exactly).

 

The Egg one was in Dec 06 (i found some paerwork for it today funilly enough). I stopped the Egg nominal £1 paymets this morning as well.

[The GodMother]

No this is my "true signed copy" of my credit agreement!

 

Despite the fact that some terms are correct it's pretty much a cut and paste job.

 

 

the bank address is one I had not used since 2001 (why yes i'll travell 150 miles to an unconveniebt branch to obtain my loan....) th header is out of sync with the numerous badly aligned boxes on the page and there seems to be no page reference nubers not T&C's etc.

It would indeed appear to be my standing order tacked onto a made up credit agreement.

 

Something regarding this does not feel right.

 

Why would you travel 150 miles to a branch that you have not used since 2001 for a loan?

They have provided what looks like a Standing order form. This is based on the fact it says standing order on it.

they have not provided T&Cs based on when your account was opened and it does look wrong.

 

I would argue that is not correct and that until u get the correct one that your NOT paying anything.

 

Also for Moorcroft.

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO THIS COMPANY OR ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT.

 

Dear Moorcroft.

 

On XX i recieved a personal visit from one of your field agents.

 

On XX i informed you in writing that its matter was in dispute and that you are not able to collect on this debt. You recieved this letter on XX and it was signed for by XX

 

As i recieved a visit from one of your field agents without my permission and against the oft guidelines on debt collection then i will require a compensation payment of £50 to cover the large amount of stress this has caused.

 

I trust i will recieve this payment within 7 days of the date of this letter or i may take further action.

I have also included the relivant Guideline that you have broken re the continued collection and visiting me regarding this debt.

 

2.6

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

2.8

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

2.12

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the

debt is deadlocked or disputed.

g. not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit.

 

Yours

 

BLAH print dont sign.

 

Adjust to suit your needs.

[mpaforall]

thanks for that Gm

 

TBH the moorcroft"agent" promptly departed when i mentioned teh case was in dispute - i'd put this down to EGG bein pretty poor in the maintaning up todate information department. I'm sure they will however get in contact when they dont get their pound this month. i suspect thet they will be unable to comply with my request

 

As for the HSBC loan "credit agreement" Looking at it now it does appear to be a cobbled together job. At the time I was very mucg "bu**er they kept it and found it" A letter to the effect of it not being legit and lacking the T&C's has been sent and stating thet the account is still in dispute.

[mpaforall]

And an Update.

 

A few threatening letters arrived from DG solicitors on tuesday.

 

one dated the 29th of October stating a that they ahve been instructed to take action against me in a county court and that a "warrant of excecution" will be sought out.

The 2nd one dated the 8th of november threatening to"employ debt collectors" but also taking nearly £3k off the total sum!

 

Then a letter today from HSBC themselves ackowledging my letter of last week stating that I belived the account was still indispute due to the (blindingly obvious) innacuracies of said "credit agreement" and that they are currently liasing with the branch where the credit agreement was raised to "sort it out". Deary me..

 

 

Now EGG have also gotten back to me!

 

it all seems legit the T&C's are there and the agreement is complete. it goes over 3 A4 pages and seems ok bar the signature.

 

there is a box that say's "customer Signature" and in it is "please tick box" with a tick box (ticked obviously) and underneath it " this is instead of your signature" my name is not there at all. dated the 22nd Dec 2006

 

below this is the same thing for the lender - though their name is there.

Again dated the 22nd Dec 2006

 

Below that it goes on about reciving a signed lonagreement withing 90 days (which they wont have as I never signed anything with them).

 

The T&C's issued are very much the current ones printed off their website.

 

A scan of the agrement will be up tommorrow.

 

 

Is it enforcable?

 

The T&C's issued are very much the current ones printed off their website

Edited November 20, 2008 by mpaforall
Added more detail and the promise of a scan of the EGG agreement

[joneseyblod]

Hi

 

Sorry to butt in on this post, but I noticed someone asking about dates agreements were made, and then whether agreements are enforcable, unenforcable or only enforcable by a court.

 

Did something change in the law at some point regarding this?

[mpaforall]

The CCA was amended a few times. After a bit of research I've found that in December 2004 it was amended to include"electronic signatures"

I did have a link somwhere - i'll dig it out again later. Though i'm going to wait and see if somone with a bit more experience on this can answer my question (as soon as i ahve it scanned and posted up of course!)

 

The 2006 amendement s also one that appears to remove some of the clauses that are currently a boon to us debtors - section 127 pt1, 11 and 111 I belive.

 

Your best bet is to start a thread of your own (in the relevent part of the forum) and ask the specific question you want answered.

Edited November 21, 2008 by mpaforall
Spellin errors><

[joneseyblod]

Hi mpaforall

 

Thanks for that, I will post a thread about this.

 

Would appreciate the link if you have it though.

[mpaforall]

Apologies for my lack of posts'/scanning documents i've had a bad bout of lhurghi anyway.

 

HSBY have written to me about the loan and OMG they dont have an copy of my agreement!

 

"i refere to recent correspondence in respect of the above mentioned account

 

I regret the branc have been unable to locate a copy of the full loan agreement, therefore I am unable to provide a copy of the agreement to you.

 

I can however confirm that page 1 of the loan agreement, previously forwarded to you is a true copy of your signature on thr document and matches the signature on record....."

There is some other blurb about the font discrepancies and why a west country branch is on the agreement etc etc .

[mpaforall]

Sorry for a such a long time between updates. Things seemed to gi very quiet on the DCA from from both HSBC and EGG. Which was nice.

 

unfortunatly i had a very very close and personal bereavement 3 weeks agao 9just after my trmp job ended too) which jhas left me at sea.

 

then within a day of eachother i recived a "warning" card from Allied international credit Re my HSBC CC (whcih has no Signed agreement at all)

 

and a letter from ARC cedit managment Re;' mt egg loan.

 

i phoned ARC explained that i was in no situation and frnakly the guy oin the other end pf the phone line was genuienly sympathertic and TBH couldnt get ff the phone fast enough when i explained my situation.

 

 

Allied international credit on the other hand are a bunch of bully boy **************'s who made em loose my cool. However i have photocopied all the releven HSBC "we dont got nuffink" documents and posted them off yesterday. I recived a txt from them today and folishly called them. The guy was frankly a big old bully boy and was really trying to push me. So i've sent them anther letter telling thrm my only correspondency wuill be by letter from now on.

 

 

As a side not they will be hard pushed to get anything atm as my and my partnes world has fallent apart completely.

[creditcardmug]

My condolences on your bereavement...there is nothing to be gained by speaking to them on the phone, as im sure you have discovered

 

AIC is an American company set up in the UK to cajole uninformed "creditors" to pay up or else, regardless of whether or not they have a valid CCA....they are an arrogant bunch who have no understanding, respect, interest in british law

 

I hope you will give them the respect they deserve!

[mpaforall]

My condolences on your bereavement...there is nothing to be gained by speaking to them on the phone, as im sure you have discovered

 

AIC is an American company set up in the UK to cajole uninformed "creditors" to pay up or else, regardless of whether or not they have a valid CCA....they are an arrogant bunch who have no understanding, respect, interest in british law

 

I hope you will give them the respect they deserve!

 

Thnaks, no nothing can really help with any bereavement and Both my partner and self are in a state of zombie like shock right now.

 

 

The only reason we're living as we are ATM is the money from my last wage packet and a generous sum of money given to me by my parents.

 

 

Though i will be looking forward to letting the next round of DCA's know we're now pretty much benefits dependant (as much as i abohr feling likea state sponger) and have no viable mans of income as yet. I imiagine i will be able to return to work as son as the Dr sees i'm mentally fit enough but my missus will probably never work again TBH.

 

 

AIC is (or at least the person i dealt with) very agressive and non understanding. i immiediatly sent them a letter ststing all further comunication is to be done via letter only, though this was after i sent them the letter from HSBC ststing thay had no credit agreement for the CC debt anyway!) Suffice to say i lost my cool with the person and in future the will get the level of respect and help from me that they give

 

All in all thay stsnd sod all chance now as both myself and partner onre both signd off sick and on ESA (myself having had my temp contract ended a few weeks back and my partner was our daughters carer)

Edited June 17, 2009 by mpaforall
Added some clarifying info.