Forgottenone/Capone CCA/Default

[Guest forgottenone]

Actually, thinking about this more, should I be considering filing a complaint with OFT/FOS as they've failed to comply with a legal request to supply a CCA yet still are defaulting me whilst it is clear the debt is in dispute? Surely, that alone, is breaking some guideline somewhere? If I did file a complaint with one of the known bodies, should I just stick to this issue or include all correspondece I've sent Capital One, copies of their replies?

 

At the very least I know they aren't towing the line with guideliness issuing me this default whilst in dispute. Been mentally drafting a letter to OFT etc if I need to now do that.

[Guest forgottenone]

Well, whatever. I think it is clear Capital One doesn't have an agreement ... thus are stalling. Hoping, as they did with their last letter asking for proof of income, despite already being told NO in a letter, I will be too stupid to realize this.

[Guest forgottenone]

Decision time. I genuinely, honestly haven't a clue what I am doing ... especially not with Capital One's track record. Completely at wits end. Had a quick look around CAG for anything useful, directly useful to this ... couldnn't really find anything but, maybe, not looking in right places or far enough.

 

Now I've had this letter, is it better I just write to them reminding them they cannot pass my account onto a third party, or issue me with notices ... I mean, come on - they are breaking guidelines, blatantly ignoring my request which I made legally for a CCA just doing this! ... whilst the account is in dispute? And also warning them about doorstep visits.

 

Completely at a loss how to go about any of this. I am trying, but it's really hard when your ill.

[Sparkles100]

Capone, again. They've done the reverse in my case ... CCA'd them, ignored. They've defaulted me whilst account in dispute and whilst they are in default with the CCA request. Am at wits end now getting the default today. Reading the gibberish they send out as template letters is enough to send a sane person mad. Hope you get sorted.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for your reply to my thread and the support.

 

I think that the tactics Debitas / Crap 1 are using on you and I are just for effect...that effect to fighten us. Someone on here said very wisely that IF they ever try to take us to court over this no Judge in the land will find in their favour if we are in true financial hardship.

 

DO NOT WORRY. If what they are saying on this forum is correct (I am not 100% that it is) then the fact that they cannot provide you a true CCA agreement will be your ultimate defence. If you can take THEM to court, please do I would love to hear that the UK justice system does some good and provides assistance to people on IB, and that money doesn't always buy justice.

 

Sparkles

[Sparkles100]

Snap!

 

I got one of those letters on Early May and a further one when they transfered to Debitas early June. I would expect that they will send you a Debt Collectors letter fom Debitas soon. Again do not worrk, Debitas and Capone are the same company.

 

I got a letter today saying they are about to sell the debt to a quote "external" agent. I think you are lucky that you have already CCAd them and they haven't responded. You are in a strong position to dispute this fully.

 

Hang in there. I hope someone more experienced can advise you further.

 

Sparkles

[Guest forgottenone]

Hello. Thanks for reply. What annoys me, though, is their slipshod attitude ie 'we do what we like even if means breaking UK regulations, laws' ... said before a few times on CAG, only recently they started putting on any of their statements, correspondence about where to get help if in difficulties eg CAB ... that's completely new in all the years I've been with them.

 

Trying to hang on. Very hard at times. Had what was considered a stroke recently ... trouble always comes in threes or like buses as they say. Been ignoring most of the threatograms mostly. What I don't like about this is how they feel they can just get away with making an implied threat - or seem to be - about finding employment will be made even harder than it is already? First time I've seen that on anything.

 

And their inability to comply with a legal request. I've got proof of postal order and recorded delivery slips. I haven't had another statement from them yet to see if they've used the £1 fee towards the balance. All the years I've had this account, never defaulted, always paid on time ... I miss or fall into arrrears for a couple of months and ... well. Their card is in front of me on the shelf above my keyboard here ... right now I am too angry to even chop it to bits or hack it to pieces with scissors.

[Guest forgottenone]

Just some thoughts about a draft letter now.

 

1) May I remind you of ... *some legal sound stuff inserted here* that I made a legal request for a copy of my true credit agreement on *date* and that you are now in default with this request. I may also draw your attention to the fact that, whilst you have not provided me with the information I requested, you are now yourselves in default yet are, against OFT guidelines when an account is placed into dispute, intending me issue a default notice within 28 days of the date of your letter *dated* and are also stating you may take the action as directed on your ' Notice of Default, and passing the debt onto a third party whilst the account is in dispute.

 

 

2) May I also take this opportunity to point out that you seem to be implying in your correspondence that I may find future employment prospects 'difficult' or it is implied in your correspondence I may have difficulty if a credit check is undertaken. I would point out that this appears to be harassment, at the very least intimidation by implying it will affect future job prospects. This is and could be construed as a 'threat'.

 

3) Here I would just reiterate about selling my debt to a third party etc whilst in default.

 

Just some thoughts on the above? Clearly, it's only very rought right now but is it worth me sending them anything? Or would it be just wasting my time again?

 

 

Obviously, it still needs a bit of work so any tips, anything I may have posted incorrectly before would be welcome. I know nothing about legal matters. I recognise that I need something stronger to throw back at them.

[WendyB]

The CCA route doesn't make the debt go away, just means its unenforcable. It will still be there lurking in the background, rearing its ugly head from time to time as it gets passed to various DCA's who don't give a stuff about CCA. Whereas if you claim charges and file at court, you could probably get a large part (even all) of the debt paid. Which makes it all go away. No debt= no DCA=nothreatening letters/phonecalls/hassle. Done. Dusted. Sorted. Less stress.

[Guest forgottenone]

Any suggestions how to reply to this letter from Capital One? I am really stuck? Do I reply? Should I leave it? I've looked around CAG for anything I can use, but to be honest, it's all confusing to me, I don't know which/what to reply with.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? It's literally very hard for me to deal with this by myself because of illness. Please can someone help me?

[Guest forgottenone]

Or do I just sit back, wait for the court action I KNOW is gonna come next? What the hell else can I lose in life I haven't already lost? Self respect, been taken to the cleaners and had money stolen from me? I can't fight this so why bother trying to.

 

So, all my creditors come do your damn worst. Come and kick someone in the head who has nothing, can give you nothing. Do what you damn well like to me. I've had it.

[mnrbig]

Complain to trading standards, as no action may be taken on the account whilst they are in default of a CCA request.

[Guest forgottenone]

Okay. Things are getting pretty desperate now. Capital One have obviously been reading CAG, what I've been putting because, surprirse surprise they phoned me around an hour ago - after over a month of no calls. Not a coincidence, then.

 

I have spoken to one of their muppets just now asking WHY, after my sending them a letter about removal of my telephone number from their system under the Data Protection Act and only having one point of contact. Have they been viewing CAG I wonder?

 

I have explained to them the situation. I was so annoyed with them phoning, after posting here I lost my rag with them. I am now completely lost how to deal with this.

 

Their glove puppet 'account manager' ... is stating they have issued me a default notice because I have ignored their request to send in proof of income. My reply was that they have no right to ask this, I even came to CAG firstly, found what I needed right here same day they requested this previously and found what I needed to write back to them. Which I did.

 

Essentially, Capital One are ignoring ANY CCA request and are citing the reason they've issued me with a default is because I have not sent in bank statements, proof of income. I have informed them just now only a JUDGE with a court order can request that information and they are breaking the law just asking me for it.

 

I have informed them also they are in default, against OFT guidelines issuing or intending to sell my debt to a third party whilst this account is in dispute. They reply saying 'because you've not sent us proof of income this is why you've been issued a default notice'. It's a ridiculous situation and I don't know what to do now.

 

So, now the phone calls are going to start again even though I've legally requested they remove my phone number. Their pathetic reply just now was 'well, I don't know why Capital One was phoning you when you've asked for it to be removed'. Request was made using advice from CCCS and from CAG about how to get them to remove my number, only contact me in writing from now on. Now, obviously, these people at Capital One are wanting me on the phone because they have no credit agreement and they know perfectly well they can abuse or make me agree to something or they may say something I have no written record of. Well, I am NOT doing that!

 

So, here we have it:

 

1) Capital One were legally requested a CCA - they have ignored that, failed to comply with any request made under the consumer credit agreement act for that information to be supplied to me

 

2) Capital One state they've issued me with a default notice BECAUSE, their words, I haven't supplied them with proof of income. Their argument now is they STILL - regardless of the fact CAB, CCCS, etc etc has all said I do NOT need to send them this information and ONLY a court can request this info of me; blatantly Capital One are ignoring all that. Why change?? - they have not received proof of my income, and that's why they've issued a default notice and now intend sending my account to a debt collection agency.

 

What the hell do I do now? I know they are just mucking about placing the onous on ME, but are also issuing unlawfully a default notice whilst account is in dispute. They simply did not care about that on the phone just now. But they are still acting unlawfully.

 

Things have now got a hell of a lot more complicated as a result. It is Capital One who aren't complying not me! And I know this is one big scare tactic. I also know that it is not uncommon for a creditor or DCA to obtain information about your current health problems - read it on CAG for example; but behaviour of this sort wouldn't come as any surprise regardless if I hadn't read it - and exploit them.

 

So, they are claiming they issued the default notice ... because I've not supplied them the information they've asked for ... I've written back TWICE instructing them they are not entitled to see proof of income and aren't legally entitled to see it ... ignored, yet now my account is in default ... with the CCA request ... precisely HOW and WHY can they think they can get away with this as my account is obviously in dispute?

 

I really need help with this now. And I don't know what to do next. Everything I've read here on CAG about Capital One is not good. And their behaviour is apalling. It really is.

 

I will be writing to them, but I am unsure what to write. Now, they are stating this about my not complying with their request. Out of all of the creditors I am dealing with Capital One are the absolute worst of the lot.

 

Obviously, they want me on the phone because nothing will exist in writing. If they continue I will be seriously considering contacting my local police reporting them for harassment now. I've got proof I asked them to stop making calls for example. They've just ignored it.

 

They don't have a CCA. Hence all this nonsense from them. Saying I've not complied with this that. Just going round the houses. Avoiding, ducking and diving their obligations which they KNOW they are obliged to honour.

 

So many twists and turns with these people. I can't keep up and am having severe difficulty trying to. I don't know what to write now they've said this on the phone.

 

I mean how the heck can they issue a default notice whilst the account is in dispute? Are they not breaking the law here???

 

Edited some of this. Knew I shouldn't have phoned them but got so flipping well annoyed they had I wanted a reason why they were after all the letters. Don't know if they've seen my posts here ... wouldn't surprise me as call comes today after posting the notice. I don't believe in coincidence shall I say. Well, not all of them.

Edited June 25, 2008 by forgottenone

[the main man]

Hi Forgottenone,

 

I think Maggiebroom had a good thread from when she took on Cap1, maybe worth a read for some useful info

 

Capone (cap one) - The Consumer Forums

 

hope this helps

 

regards

 

MM

[Guest forgottenone]

Thanks. Am sounding desperate. But they've really made me very ill TBH. Will take a look.

[Guest forgottenone]

Okay. Am back on the defensive again. For five minutes anyway. What I think I will not do is write them a letter, reminding them of a few things ie non compliance with CCA, but also enclose copies of receipts for recorded delivery, and copies of all correspondence I've sent them up until now. Don't know what good that will do, apart from reminding them again they've been instructed to remove my phone number, yet haven't complied; plus a few other things I think they need reminding of. Cos clearly, they obviously cannot read properly. Or need someone else to read correspondence for them.

 

Seems to me from reading CAG, their record keeping is a case of simply not keeping any and reflects a very poorly adminstered company ... one that cannot keep records for example can't be good? Particularly as they are a multinational company. Brings to mind images of a fairly dysfunctional workplace, with files flung all over the place, no filing system to speak of. Filed on tables.

 

 

Just wish I wasn't letting them get to me like this. But it's because of the treatment, the futility of trying to get anywhere with them, the frustration ... well, you've all been there on CAG. It's the mere fact they can just behave like this at all. Cos unless you've encountered it it can come as a real eye opener, shock to see how these companies truly behave when people are in debt. The sheer inhumanity of it. I am an intelligent person but it's reducing me to a state of mind which isn't helping. Not that I haven't been here before but, got through things ... just when you do everything properly, sensibly to appraise creditors of your difficulties, expecting to receive some assistance ... simply doesn't exist, no matter how their pamphlets, leaflets say 'we are here to help you in times of difficulty'. When, what they really, honestly mean is will will threaten you, we will abuse you psychologically, threaten to ruin your life if you are in difficulties. Don't expect any help from us. It's all criminally wrong. And it's when you face this ... it's hard to cope with, deal with. Institutions of reputedly good standing behaving recklessly, without abandon and like the worst kind of Del Boy you can imagine.

 

Never considered for one moment this would all be easy. And I'm just at the early stages.

[harrythehawk]

Comes with the territory I'm afraid, just keep writing and recording the calls, you have done all you can but it is a familiar story in that the law and regulation means nothing unless it suits them and the arrogance, ignorance and apparent lack of organisation is deliberately orchestrated like you say to get to you and for you to give in, just try and be strong. Check around on here for threads on dealing with calls, there alot of tactics and methods, some are quite amusing, at the moment I am using an excellent east european accent with BOS and not understanding them and continually asking them to "repeat please".

[mrsc]

Hi Forgottenone,

 

If I was you, just my opinion mind I would just hang up the phone don't talk to them.

And do as Harrythe hawk suggests read some of the post regarding phone calls and how others deal with them you might just find one you like, if not some will give you a laugh just when you need it most.

 

Good luck:)

[the main man]

Hi Forgottenone,

 

 

Are there any charges or payment protection on the account that you can claim back?

[Guest forgottenone]

Erm, don't know about payment protection. Certainly ARE charges on it, though! That's what makes up the small *but large to me on my income* amount, gone over the limit by. Been reading those threads you directed me to ... guess helps when you know what info to search for ... cos I must have missed it before.

 

I found this on there about default notices issued whilst in dispute?

 

77

Duty to give information to the debtor under fixed-sum agreement

 

 

(4)

If the creditor, under an agreement, fails to comply with Sub-section (1) :

 

 

a.

He is not entitled, whilst the default continues, to enforce the agreement and

 

 

b.

If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

78

Duty to give information to the debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

 

a.

State of the account and

 

 

b.

The amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor

 

 

(6)

If the creditor, under an agreement fails to comply with sub-section (1) :

 

 

a.

He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement and

 

 

b.

If the default continues for one month, he commits an offence that is punishable by a fine of £2,500 or 3 months imprisonment.

 

 

So, specifically Section 77(a).

[MARTIN3030]

Actually, thinking about this more, should I be considering filing a complaint with OFT/FOS as they've failed to comply with a legal request to supply a CCA yet still are defaulting me whilst it is clear the debt is in dispute? Surely, that alone, is breaking some guideline somewhere? If I did file a complaint with one of the known bodies, should I just stick to this issue or include all correspondece I've sent Capital One, copies of their replies?

 

At the very least I know they aren't towing the line with guideliness issuing me this default whilst in dispute. Been mentally drafting a letter to OFT etc if I need to now do that.

 

 

Yes there are a number of breaches-not only under the consumer credit act-but also under the OFT guidelines on debt collection.

[Guest forgottenone]

Idiotically, in a fit of frustration I posted about my telephone call ... when I should have kept it in one thread ... ie this one. But driven to sheer frustration and all! Distraction, even.

 

But the fact THEY have taken me over my limit by adding charges is why they've issued my Notice of Default. And, as of the phone call earlier today - okay, I know I was silly doing this but I was so angry they'd phoned after my letter to remove my details and have only one point of contact ie my address from then on - they are now claiming this default is being issued because I've not supplied them with proof of income ie statements. I really don't want to send them any proof of my benefit entitlement ... purely because I have read here that underhand methods are made eg they could contact my benefits office, using some excuse ... and make a charging order without my knowledge and knowing the way benefits office works *I worked for the DWP once so have insider knowledge ... just as disorgnised as some DCA's and all non personalised letters yet to the observer nothing seems amiss* locally ... hence my fear in that direction. I see no other reason for them to see this info, despite what they claim as 'proof'. And to get their hands on my national insurance number. Which they have utterly no rights to see from what I've read and it would be utterly idiotic of me to naively supply it to them on their say so. Obviously, the address of my benefit office would also be included in any letter ... so, if I blanked it all out, they'd refuse it because they couldn't see that info ... round and round we go etc. As to bank statements. What brought me to CAG was googling for any info and Capital One's requests ... came straight to a thread with exactly the info I needed, person was in the same mess/situation. Even chucking that information, which was obviously well researched by the users at the time on what they can ask of you has gone ignored. They have THEIR procedures apparently. Yes, but erm, there is also something called lawful requests as well.

 

So, what was originally a small overdue amount ie minimum payment ... is now at least 5 times that as a result. Tickety boo - over the limit now! Nice Capone has increased my debt exponentially, adding late payment and over limit fees ... of course, as 'prescribed' as fair under guidelines ... but the £12 fee for both is the limit imposed on such 'fair' default charges or so I understand from reading about them and it's up to the discretion of the creditor to decide how 'fair' they are ... anyway, I am waffling on.

 

 

And until they produce a copy of my CCA, which I don't honestly think they are going to do given they've already issued me with a new set of T/Cs starting July ... maybe they think they can fob me off with that and I won't know what a CCA looks like. Thing is, I do I can't even begin to refer to any terms they claim exist in their default notice ... or whether I took out PPI. I don't think I did ... there again, I have read that they sneakily sign you up to this without your permission. When I got the card there would have been no reason to but you never know!

 

Where I get caught up and go wrong ... is I have a terrible illness, with more coming soon ... watch this space ... kind of thing ... cos just keeps heading my way ... just way my life goes ... seemingly ... and because of that it makes it hard for me to write stronger letters, even thinking about it is hard ... and sounding legal at the same time. I fall down. Miserably.

 

As an observer, helping others it's easier because you are independent and can see where to put things right but I fail when it comes to my own problems. Am I my own worst enemy at times. Writing letters isn't something I find hard but I struggle as I get so overwhelmed with what to say, how to say it ... writers block. Made worse because of how my illness operates. Compounds it. Depends which day it is, really. Up and down.

 

Sometime I can write words that move people ... other times I am naff. Cos I stumble over what I need to say. Then lose sight of it. But on this score, ie dealing with creditors I fail.

[rippedoffagain]

forgottenone.

 

If their phone calls have this effect on you, you MUST change your phone number. You can write until hell freezes over, THEY WILL NOT STOP, regardless of the law.

 

Change your number, get that pressure off you. You can start to win!!! You can change your luck.

 

Please remember, you are not guilty of anything The banks "stock in trade" is lending money. They take a risk when they do so, in your case they loose out, big deal, they will make their money from someone else. They SOLD you the debt. Make no mistake, they knew what they were doing.

 

Investigate "fractional reserve banking system", when you discover that the money you have borrowed didn't exist, until you borrowed it, it may make you feel less guilty.

Edited June 25, 2008 by rippedoffagain

[MARTIN3030]

here are some of those points for you to look over.

 

 

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

2.e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

 

Physical/psychological harassment2.6

c. using more than one debt collection business at the same time

resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties

d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties

e. not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a

different debt collector

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

g. making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which

suggest harm to debtors

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.8

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is

queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

 

 

 

Debt collection guidance

Final guidance on unfair business practices

July 2003 (updated December 2006)

[Guest forgottenone]

Hello, I know. About not stopping. I have considered it ... it's just losing broadband is the trouble. And any link back to CAG should I need urgent advice. I can look into it further but BT has instructed me this would happen as I am with another ISP ... so I'd be offline for at least 10 days. I didn't keep my cool on the phone with them earlier. Just came at the wrong moment, I needed to get that frustration out. Okay, I didn't go OTT - never would anyway - at them, but how they've made me feel ... It's been so quiet, apart from peculiar calls from loan companies I've never had contact with lately ... don't answer them just make a note, then look them up online or 14713 to find out ... automated message 'you have been contacted ... the usual messages inserted here ...' and wanting me to contact them ... for some unspecified reason. Just think it's phishing. That I am now in the 'system' if you like re debts ... think DCA's start coming out of the woodwork for unpaid loans, regardless if they belong to you ... and open season with a blunderbus. Or so it seems.

 

This Yes Loans company I keep getting unsolicited calls for example today and yesterday. 2 a day. Pretty insistent. Since learned they are a credit/broker who offer a service for an upfront fee. Erm, no thank you not interested! Never contacted them. Then there's another one who keeps calling same time as those 'we represent a blue chip company' but never divulge who they are. All premium rate numbers. Leads me to conclude they are connected in some way with my debts. So, those go unanswered.

 

I've actually missed logging calls from creditors ... strangely ... so when I get them randomly, I am forgetting to log them. Strange situation.

 

Unfortunately, rather than just leave it at 'why are you calling me etc when ...' I then went onto correspondence I'd sent them. But I just wanted to vent more than anything. And I did. But in more formal terms.

[MARTIN3030]

As we have said...you are not alone.Anytime you need help with the letters just ask.We have a great team here and I know no one will see you struggle.

My email address is here for you and anyone else who feels at a loss-as indeed are many others.Our strength comes from supporting eachother and its something which has benefitted many.Not everyone needs help-its just nice to know its there if they do.