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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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Perky DEFEATED in Oldham County Court 12 MAY 08 ***won on 2nd Hearing ***


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Thats great octron32, if only you had logged on 24hrs ago it would have stopped all this.

 

I look forward to a public apology from those who doubted me when it is shown that everything I have said is correct.

 

Two things:

Everything you have said is not correct.

ref 'Struck out' and the judge 'ordering' a new PoC.

and

 

Doubt doesn't enter into it.

 

shame you didn't just post it up yourself really. but I think your intention was just to get someone to pay something as you see it as a victory.

Many on here are motivated by other things than money as we already solved the money thing.

 

As I have said several times already. We will find out on due course how good Perky's amended case is.

 

I am sure he has fully considered all the possible consequences of having a second bite.

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Thats great octron32, if only you had logged on 24hrs ago it would have stopped all this.

 

I look forward to a public apology from those who doubted me when it is shown that everything I have said is correct.

 

Er no! If only you had posted up the transcript you hold it would have stopped all this.Regards everything you have said, you first said there was nothing adverse to CPS in the transcript, then said of course it contains material negative to CPS. When we point out all the negative material , are you intending to say "I told you so" and demand your apology? Or are you going back to your original statement that there is nothing negative in it?

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I would guess it will be red faces all around at CPS Towers. This is after supplying us with the evidence the claim had been struck out after all. Maybe he is a wheel clamper after all - he certainly has the required intellectual capacity for the job.

 

I will not respond by lowering myself to personal insults.

 

I would however wait until you see the transcript instead of guessing, all will be revealed in the goodness of time.

 

As for being in Scotland, not sure where that came from (poster=lamma) I stated before I was in Birmingham .. and as for taking money off hard working people, hardly ... Most people take the chance, park next to clear signage because they have done it many times before and not been caught, they cant be bothered to pay 50p or whatever in a carpark and think they will not be caught !!! - then have the cheek to moan when they get caught by the clamp/towed away ... you can only roll the dice so many times.

 

I have started a new thread on wheelclamping as I am interested in your viewpoints, I am sure to disagree but my employment is nothing to do with a case in Oldham and we should keep to topic.

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my employment is nothing to do with a case in Oldham and we should keep to topic.

 

Strange that for someone who has spent 2 days and 17 or so posts talking about nothing other than the Oldham case. Someone who tells us he has no connection with CPS but happens to have in his back pocket a copy of the court order and the transcript of the court hearing. Correction999, you now appear very anxious to move away from the case - any particular reason for your sudden change of interest? It is notable that you want to move away from it at a time when a transcript of what transpired on 12 May will be forthcoming. Are the two connected, I wonder?

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Nope, the next post with anything to say will be the person who posts the transcript .. until then I see nothing more I can add that will change your views.

 

octron32 will get you the transcript and post it, until then we are not going to proceed and achieve anything constructive.

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the next post with anything to say will be the person who posts the transcript

 

I see that you have added the role of site moderator to your other role of chief spokeskman for CPS even though you have nothing to do with them. People are free to post to this thread as much as they like as long as it remains on topic. We are all looking forward to the transcript. Personally I believe it will be extremely revealing and not at all as portrayed.

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Why not send to:

 

Consumer Action Group

PO Box 7481

Derby

DE1 0LE

skb

Victory over Lloyds £890

Click!

Victory over Vodafone: default removal

click!

Victory over Lloyds PPI claim £2606 click!

Barclaycard lazygoing - £580 + £398 contractual int at 17.7 % click! (Received partial payment £110 21/11/06)

The GF's battle against RBS click! stayed awaiting the end of the world

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I think perhaps it was the tone of the warning, peps, so, as I'm not involved, how about a calm one from me? ;)

 

It is never advisable to send any member of this forum (or, indeed any other) personal details, such as address, DOB etc. as you do not really know with whom you are communicating and those details could be misused for various reasons.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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Hi,

 

Was following this tread at work until friday - appears to have lost a few posts since. Have they all been moved to the OT beer garden thread or just disappeared?

 

Just curious as to me it seams interesting (curently just ignoring a eurocarparks 'invoice' myself)

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Hi,

 

Was following this tread at work until friday - appears to have lost a few posts since. Have they all been moved to the OT beer garden thread or just disappeared?

 

 

Yes, they are in the beer garden.

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How come this thread died.... did perky and his "spokes people" give up business :)

Thanks

- Hobbie

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Under no circumstances should you speak with a Debt Collections Agency via telephone, request that all future correspondence is done in writing, a letter template for this can be located here.

 

Any views expressed are solely that of my own, any advice or information offered is provided in genuine good faith, and should be checked prior to acting upon.

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  • 2 months later...

I live in oldham and i would be glad to ask for anything you like from the court. I am off work for two days next week so please let me know what i need to ask for. I have recently rejected a request for some of my hard earned by one of these [edited] and would love to think i could contribute to everyone doing likewise.

Edited by jonni2bad

And the lord said "come forth and i shall grant you eternal life" I came fifth and got a toaster!!!:D

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  • 1 month later...

I am reporting on the famous Oldham Case between Combined Parking Solutions and Mr Stephen Thomas … as you may remember it was incorrectly reported on this site in May that the case had been dismissed with no leave to appeal etc.

Case Number: 8QT03984

I am surprised that Legaladviser (or one of his many alter-Egos hasn’t already posted it as he was quick enough last time to post the incorrect story)

Well, the case was heard today during a 3.5hr hearing with District Judge Ackroyd at Oldham County Court with the full CAG/PePiPoo defence being submitted, the full CAG/PePiPoo assisted witness statements and photographs.

I think it is widely acknowledged that there has been MAJOR input by the so called legal experts on this site and I have to be honest the defence was a good attempt (I would give if 6/10 for effort)

Mr Thomas was accompanied by his lay ‘legal’ representative from CAG/PePiPoo and he would not state his username but his real name was Mr Stephen Large.

Anyway … The case resulted in a FULL VICTORY for Combined Parking Solutions and a total ticket bill of over £250 for the very pitiful looking Mr Thomas.

The judge criticised the advice and methods used by these websites (ie, to ignore and then send letters stating take it up with the driver) – He stated that Mr Thomas was a very “Disingenuous” person by his way in dealing with the matter.

The full case presented by Mr Thomas/Mr Large was everything that was expected .. Prove I was the driver you have no evidence, In any event the signage is not enough to establish a contract, No consideration was given thus a contract cant be created and finally that the charge was penal.

All the cases quoted on here were used (Dunlop, Clydebank Shipping, Price v Easton etc..).

The judge (after a 3hr hearing) confirmed that on the balance of probailities Mr Thomas was driving … The signage was sufficient (despite the defendant using the selective wording from the Vine case that it must be seen, however he missed out later in the judgement where it stated it did not have to be actually read !!) and then stated it was NOT a penalty but a charge.

So .. The questions now are:

Are the CAG/PePiPoo people going to deny all involvement in this case because it has failed miserably .. or all they going to admit defeat.

As the defence was so good that every PPC will fail … well now you have the perfect opportunity to lodge an appeal on a legal ground and get it taken higher … the gauntlet is now thrown for you.

Is the person who spoke on behalf of Mr Thomas going to confirm their identity ?? or as they were shamefully defeated are they going to keep a low profile !!!

I must admit, the defendants did look surprised when they quoted the Excel Case and when questioned it was clear they knew NOTHING about it only the mis reporting in the papers and on here. (the claimant had the FULL transcript as to why the loss happened)

They were even more surprised when a copy of the transcript from the Thomas case in May was produced that clearly showed there was NO evidence heard and the comment that the claimant had no evidence and stated ‘we just know he was the driver’ was complete and utter rubbish.

This case shows that the BEST prepared defence prepared by the experts (word used loosely) can and will fail if the parking charge was issued correctly, and in this instance it was .. They are NOT penalties (although the judge did comment that to the average man on the street they could be seen as such, but when the charge is broken down it is clear that it is not penal in any way).

The worst thing was, The defendant is obviously facing difficult financial circumstances and the original charge was £60 .. now it it over £250 .. If he doesn’t pay within 28-days he will have a CCJ for 6 years.

I feel sorry that he fell for the advice on here and to his detriment it has cost him dearly ….

There were representatives from Combined Parking (2), Reporter from Local Paper and 2 representatives from another parking company who are about to commence issuing legal action for unpaid charges.

I am sure you would all like me to pass on your congratulations to Perky for having the balls to take on CAG/PePiPoo and for the victory (although only in the small claims court .. but hey, you all said it would never be done !!!)

I will answer openly any questions you may have.

MESSAGE TO STETHOMAS ... Your comments would be useful, you were very vocal when trying to convince of your win.

On a serious note, it is noted that this will case you financial hardship ... I have been asked to get you to contact CPS and they will try and reduce the amount you have to pay, as a good will gesture.

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If you fill in the relevant forms, send off the relevant fee they will send you one.
Why would I want to do that? Surely it would be in your own interest to corroborate everything you say - Otherwise it's just empty posturing.

 

I think a report will be in the Oldham Echo tomorrow also, as a reporter was there.
Let's wait and see then.
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Why would I want to do that? Surely it would be in your own interest to corroborate everything you say - Otherwise it's just empty posturing.

 

Let's wait and see then.

 

I have no need to prove anything, I think the silence from other parties speak volumes.

 

What this has proved is people coming on here and PePiPoo, getting a defence and being told 'it will never lose' are being used as fools to promote the egos of certain (not all) members of this and other online communities who are nothing else but armchair lawyers with no real legal experience in the field.

 

This case was NOT about the money, it was to show that parking charges (IF issued correctly with the correct signage etc..) are perfectly valid and legal DESPITE the 'park anywhere, get lots of tickets and screw them brigade' saying they are unenforceable invoices with the correct defence.

 

Today has shown that they are enforceable and in addition the other party has a right within 14-days to submit an appeal and I know the parking companies would LOVE that to happen.

 

This way it will go higher, but of course the likes of LegalAdviser, Geronimoman etc.. do not want that as they know they will lose and be knocked off their soapbox.

 

What Perky did do, is something that no other person dared to - you can dislike parking all you want but he stood his ground and took you/them on and won (albeit in a small claims court).

 

Bring the appeal on, the legal issues were in the defence so obviously if you/they still feel that are all unenforceable invoices then the Judge made a mistake on a point of law and this is a ground for appeal....

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