Are COUNCIL issued parking tickets enforceable?

[abdles]

Firstly, I have followed the advice from this website re parking on private land and replied as registered keeper and refused to provide the details of the driver. They have gone away with their tail between their legs and I have saved myself £350!! Thank you!!

 

My current question is that surely the same tactic could be used for any council issued ticket IF parking has been decriminalised? I am aware that for a speeding ticket etc, the registered keeper must provide the details of the driver of the vehicle at that time. But if parking is now a civil matter handled by the local council and not the police, then can a council department force the registered keeper to reveal the private details of the actual driver if that driver refuses them permission to do so for example?

[Rob S]

The councils don't have to worry about who is driving the vehicle as the legislation has been set out so that ultimately the owner of the vehicle has to pay any PCN's.

[abdles]

Does that apply to all council areas, does the fact parking has been decriminalised make a difference?

[patdavies]

Does that apply to all council areas, does the fact parking has been decriminalised make a difference?

 

It only applies to decriminalised parking. Where parking is still a criminal offence, then legislation does exist to require the RK to name the driver.

[abdles]

Wonderful. I stay in Glasgow where it is decriminalised! That is a very important point then for people to understand the difference.

 

If parking is a civil offence in the relevent council area then the registered keeper can refuse to name the driver of the vehicle but if it isn't then they would have problems if they refused to name the driver.

 

Is there a way to tell what the situation is based on the format of the ticket I wonder?

[Michael Browne]

The notion of "owner liability" though not inscribed in law, also applies to tickets issued by independent enforcement agents.

It's a quaint notion. Pity it's only in the minds of PPC's, oops, sorry, I meant independent enforcement agents.

[abdles]

The last two comments are above my level of understanding, Michael, I assume you are saying that owner liability is not correct in this case and perhaps that Geral has another agenda maybe??? What is PPC? Logic says to me that it should not be correct legally or otherwise to hold one person responsible for someone elses actions???

[Michael Browne]

I assume you are saying that owner liability is not correct in this case and perhaps that Geral has another agenda maybe???

Correct, he's this weeks Propaganda Officer for Private Parking Companies.

[patdavies]

The notion of "owner liability" though not inscribed in law, also applies to tickets issued by independent enforcement agents.

 

At the severe risk of troll feeding...

 

How in the hell can you assert that somebody who is not present to read PPC 'signage' can be a party to any implied contract?

 

It is absolute nonsense. Your only (very slight) possibility would be to prove that the driver (who is unknown) was acting as a agent of the RK.

[patdavies]

 

Is there a way to tell what the situation is based on the format of the ticket I wonder?

 

Yes.

 

Decriminalised Parking Enforcement = Penalty Charge Notice; Notice to Owner: etc.

 

Criminal = Fixed Penalty Notice or Excess Charge Notice

 

Private = an endless confetti of 'invoices' threatening all sorts of dire consequences that won't happen.

[patdavies]

Precisely. It happens alot more often than you might think. If you lend your car to someone, then you obviously trust them not to park it in the wrong place. You are thus accepting that any consequences of their inconsiderate parking will be coming your way.

 

No, that in no way makes the driver an agent of the RK.

 

Toddle off and find the definition of an agent, there's a good fellow.

[GuidoT]

Please do not feed the troll, once it realises it is not getting any attention, it will hide back under the bridge where it came from.

[lamma]

indeed.

The troll doth protest too much methinks.

self defeating really - just like the landfill invoices that PPCs put out.

[Barnsley Boy]

IEA or "Independant Enforcement Agent"

 

My head hurts!

[lamma]

am not surprised it gives a headache.

 

'Enforce' - yeah right, its a mirage they try to 'enforce' without ANY authority.

Laughable terms to go with the rest of their paperwork.

 

'Enbeg' maybe, or 'Ensteal', or even ' Encheat'...

[abdles]

I think I have enough knowledge of contract law to know that one person cannot be held responsible for another persons actions in this context at least, I am happy with that. I will let you all know how I get on with the council, should be interesting.

 

Pat, Michael, lamma and Guido, thank you for the advice, Geral, thank you for showing me that the 'IEAs' are running scared. I'm off now to find a very hungry, unfed troll to drive my car, let him pay the ticket.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

I know precisely what an agent is, more specifically how it refers to parking. And more and more IEAs are aware of it.

 

The Trolls are back, really to change your handle and post on this site try to avoid using same words etc, as last time

 

Andy

[lamma]

PPCs invoices are a contract issue (or in reality a non-contract unenforceable load of claptrap issue) but AIUI council parking enforcement flows from the RTA 1991 and the powers of the RTA were officially handed over to local authorities by the Secretary of State in 1994.

the backing is legislative not contract.

Worse in London, lend your car to someone and they drive down a camera covered bus lane who do you think is liable...

[green_and_mean]

then can a council department force the registered keeper to reveal the private details of the actual driver if that driver refuses them permission to do so for example?

 

Why would they want to know who was driving?? The owner is legally responsible by law for any parking contraventions unless the vehicle had been taken without consent or hired to someone under a hire contract.

[lamma]

The councils just want your money and legislation gives them a target.. even if the ticket is non compliant, the bay markings illegal.. once the payer is identified the machine is engaged.

 

NOT the case for PPCs of course - their issues are very different.

[patdavies]

Why would they want to know who was driving?? The owner is legally responsible by law for any parking contraventions unless the vehicle had been taken without consent or hired to someone under a hire contract.

This is true for a PCN.

 

However, where DPE is not in place and Councils are enforcing off street parking using the RTRA 1984, they do have the legal authority to demand the identity of the driver.