Arrogant, rude & petty ticket inspectors - a solution

[Old-CodJA]

I opened my post by saying "No-one pretends that all rail staff are perfect,"

 

When there is a conflict in passenger complaints, this is all too often a six-of-one, half-a-dozen of the other situation, BUT I agree there are staff who could help themselves to be seen in a better light. Anyone who is working as revenue stff on a ticket barrier should make an effort to familiarise themselves with the codes & restrictions printed on tickets.

 

Fortunately, steps are being taken to reduce the incredible number of combinations that had grown to be almost unmanageable.

 

There are a couple of questions I would always ask in this sort of situation too.

 

Did you book your ticket online or did you purchase it at a station booking office before you got to the barrier?

 

If you bought it at the booking office, perhaps you should have asked the clerk that issued it what 'AP Woking' meant, because if that revealed that the ticket wasn't what you wanted, you would have been able to correct it there and then.

 

If you bought the ticket on-line or from an agent, did you read it and the terms & conditions at that time for the same reasons?

 

I'm not seeking to excuse the staff that you encountered. As I said, that member of staff should have known what the code referred to, but the time to query things that we don't understand on tickets is at the time of purchase.

 

If, in our own best interests, we all did that as a matter of course, then many of these conflicts would never arise. I don't buy the argument that we're all too busy these days to spend 30 seconds reading the ticket that we have just paid an exhorbitant amount of money for.

 

I'm not saying there would be no mistakes, but if there is one thing that years of experience has shown it is this:

 

The greatest failure in more than 90% of cases is that the ticket holder makes an assumption rather than checks the rule before attempting to use a ticket.

 

I am genuinely glad that things worked out OK for you Mrs Ryan, but your comment gives an opportunity to discuss the single most common reason for complaint & conflict.

 

All too often the conflict arises when a traveller is attempting to use a ticket that is not valid because they have assumed it was valid rather than having checked the restriction. When a member of rail staff points out it isn't valid the traveller becomes irate because they are being asked to pay more or, worse cannot pay and are being denied access to a train.

 

The ticket holders' plans are now thrown into chaos and I can understand the traveller being upset, but is it necessary to abuse staff as a result?

 

All too often the rail staff reacts to being abused and I do not condone or seek to excuse that. It is not professional nor acceptable.

 

The fact is that in most of those situations, if the traveller had checked the ticket properly and planned to travel according to what they had bought, no conflict would arise.

 

In some cases travellers deliberately feign ignorance of restrictions in an attempt to avoid paying the proper fare. Abusing rail staff in that situation will not help the offender, but will guarantee a hard line is likely to be taken with regard to the possibility of prosecution.

 

Failed trains and cancellations are another matter, but actually account for a very small proportion of the complaints received.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[timbo58]

I'm sure that those short of genuine amusement can find ways of winding the staff up: but as long as you accept the risks!

i.e. you're not back here again sooner or later complaining that none of the staff will now actually agree to let you travel!

If you are on the regional units where the staff generally are going to be the same week in week out it won't take long for word to get around and for people to remember your tactics for annoying them, they will then either ignore you deliberately, or more likely IME, will target you as you board and inform you that you are not being carried, ticket or no.

The staff are perfectly entitled to do this, so watch out!

Source: crime & disorder act : 'person liable to cause disorder' is the way I'd play this if calling BTP/Civil to remove, it's unlikely to lead to prosecution (unless aggravated or you're repeatedly removed and therefore have delayed services) but its still an arrestable offence and one the police have to take seriously.

So enjoy: but you'll only **** everyone off if you do it.

How about just having your ticket ready and being courteous when asked for it?

Lifes too short for silliness.

[neeze9]

TFL install Oyster terminals and PAYG is not valid at London Bridge, although the arrival of London Olympics will mean that all train companies will have to accept PAYG and TFL will have to start paying the other TOC's the revenue that THEY collect.

Would you want to provide a service and not be paid?

[Gary29]

I'm sure that those short of genuine amusement can find ways of winding the staff up: but as long as you accept the risks!

i.e. you're not back here again sooner or later complaining that none of the staff will now actually agree to let you travel!

If you are on the regional units where the staff generally are going to be the same week in week out it won't take long for word to get around and for people to remember your tactics for annoying them, they will then either ignore you deliberately, or more likely IME, will target you as you board and inform you that you are not being carried, ticket or no.

The staff are perfectly entitled to do this, so watch out!

Source: crime & disorder act : 'person liable to cause disorder' is the way I'd play this if calling BTP/Civil to remove, it's unlikely to lead to prosecution (unless aggravated or you're repeatedly removed and therefore have delayed services) but its still an arrestable offence and one the police have to take seriously.

So enjoy: but you'll only **** everyone off if you do it.

How about just having your ticket ready and being courteous when asked for it?

Lifes too short for silliness.

 

Hear, hear.

[teasahara]

They tend to be make-believe police officers. A walkie-talkie is a sign of great prestige. Courtesy in conversation isn't. You may as well talk to the ticket barrier.

[Old-CodJA]

They tend to be make-believe police officers. You may as well talk to the ticket barrier.

 

You can describe RPIs & other rail staff in any derisory way you like, but like it or not, if people go out of their way to avoid fares, disrupt services or staff in the course of their duties, those people will soon discover the effect of that very powerful set of legislations known as the National Railways Byelaws.

 

Those people will soon find that staff don't need to be 'make-believe policeman' to enact them.

 

The Courts have supported that role since the 1840s and don't appear to be likely to change it any time soon...unless to make the penalties more onerous as they did a couple of years back.

 

.

[RPI]

They tend to be make-believe police officers. A walkie-talkie is a sign of great prestige. Courtesy in conversation isn't. You may as well talk to the ticket barrier.

you think that if you like, but just remember, it's people who think they're clever (but really aren't) that keep us inspectors in jobs! cheers, Barbados this year ;-)

[Delta-Charlie-76]

I generally don't have any problems with Ticket Inspectors, I make sure I have the correct pass & ticket whenever I travel, some inspectors are polite & courteous & a few do come accross as rude.

 

Recently I bought a ticket to go to a show, the guy in the ticket office printed the ticket out, I looked at it & said to him it was cheaper at £17.10, than what I paid before £18.40(3 weeks before), so I queried it, I asked if this ticket was valid on HS1, he gave me this look as if I was something he trod in and said 'you have to ask for it', to which I replied I thought the £18.40 fare was the fare for either way & wasn't aware of the cheaper fare, to which he mumbled something, he corrected my tickets & said 'everything alright now?', I checked & said thank you & walked away.

 

The guy that served I don't know if he was having a bad day or what, I didn't get in the ring with him because what is the point, winding inspectors up....whats the point?

[blitz]

I had a run in with a ticket inspector? at a station last week. Everyday I go into the station to cross the station bridge for work. They provide a bridge pass most of the time to show your not coming from a train.

 

So on my way home last week the person who should have been giving out the passes was instead chatting up a guy ignoring those walking through the open barrier. Assuming no passes today I get to the other end and get into an argument with the inspector regarding my missing pass. I was informed that I could have been fined and it is my responsibility to find a pass on the way in (Remember they only give them out about 60% of the time!).

 

After telling him that its not my fault your staff are slacking and not doing their job I was let through.

[Wriggler7]

This is a 'social' problem, not just a railway one. Employers pay rubbish wages to the cheapest people about, fail to train them properly, and worst of all, fail to supervise properly,

 

Ever see a station manager these days?

 

I had a similar problem in a branch of B & Q over the weekend, kid on the till, chatting to other kid on another till, no interest in the difference between class b engineers bricks or common stocks.

 

I assume that both of you will complain to the railways that you used, or will you let them claim a high score in the passenger satisfaction results by not complaining?

 

You will get a sympathetic ear on this thread, but unless you write a complaint, that is all you will get.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

I did complain to their head office about this guys behaviour.

[Old-CodJA]

In which case if your complaint was considered justified (and it seems to be) I have no doubt that the staff concerned will have been disciplined.

 

Just because they are still in a job and nothing made public, doesn't mean they haven't been taken to task.

 

If we were all sacked for every little misdemeanour and that publicised, 90% of the employed would be changing jobs daily wouldn't they? We all make mistakes and we all snap at times when we really should know better.

 

I don't say that to excuse rudeness, there is no excuse for rudeness from anyone, but we don't always see the punishment dished out. Let's hope the clerk is less abrupt next time you have cause to speak to him.

[Stigy]

In which case if your complaint was considered justified (and it seems to be) I have no doubt that the staff concerned will have been disciplined.

...Or brushed under the carpet, depending on the staff member concerned...;-)

[Delta-Charlie-76]

At the end of the day, I couldn't really care less about what they do to him...sack him or not, not my concern.

 

It would be just as easy for me to go to Ebbsfleet & get my tickets there, they're much more helpful than most staff at my local station...I know thats sounds harsh but sadly true.

[Old-CodJA]

...Or brushed under the carpet, depending on the staff member concerned...;-)

 

 

Oooo!! You old cynic you!!

[Stigy]

Oooo!! You old cynic you!!

Past experiences, that's all...;-)

[Old-CodJA]

Past experiences, that's all...;-)

 

We've all been there, but I say let's give everyone one chance

[Stigy]

We've all been there, but I say let's give everyone one chance

I thoroughly agree...But 3, 4 or 5?

[Bel]

Sorry but I have to share my experience of Arrogant Rude & Petty Ticket Inspectors.

In a nutshell this is what happened - I used to travel with season tickets (since 2006) and have often caught the train and renewed it at my destination, but had stopped purchasing a season ticket this September - because I was not working enough days to warrant a season ticket.

I had assumed that we were still allowed to do this as no one had complained before - and on this occassion as number of people jumped on the train without either a ticket nor Excess Fare ticket. I was wrong to jump on too without a ticket - I acknowledge this was my error but the Excess Fares sent me to the ticket inspector. He also refused to let me buy a ticket - his manner was so aggressive and confrontational - and then because I refused to move he began making abusive and offensive remarks.

Why couldn't he have said started out by saying - sorry but the rules are you can't travel without a ticket, and I'm afraid you have to either pay the full fare or the Railway's specified amount - whichever was the more expensive?

But he didn't and why did he not confront the other people who'd got on without a ticket or Excess Fare and were purchasing tickets too?

I forgot to mention after all that agro - Excess Fares was only going to charge me for my exact jourey as a signle ticket (even though it was less that the penalty fare) - even though I asked for a return.

If I was trying to fare dodge - what on earth possessed them to think I'd only want to travel one way when the could see from my Photocard I always purchase seasons tickets - were they expecting me to fare dodge on my return journey?

They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

[Old-CodJA]

Firstly I will say that I do not believe there is ever any justification for unprovoked rudeness by anyone, staff or travelling public however, the correct place for a complaint of this nature is with the Customer Relations department of the company concerned.

 

I know it makes you feel better to get that off your chest so to speak and understand that, but it will not alter anything unless you bring it to the company's attention.

 

On the subject of charging a fare, the National Railways Byelaws (2005) and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage are explicit in that, if facilities are available to obtain a ticket before boarding a train, there is a strict liability requirement for the traveller to do so unless explicity advised otherwise by an authorised person

 

Additionally, the NRCoC makes clear that it is up to the traveller to make time to obtain a ticket before travelling.

 

There are guidelines about acceptable queuing times and the availability of facilities is continuously monitored and CCTV operates at virtually all station booking points

 

Any traveller found to have failed to pay and failed obtain a ticket without acceptable reason where facilities were available may be reported for the allegation of an offence.

 

As for other people and what may or may not have happened to them, it must be remembered that an inspector can only deal with one person at a time. If he is dealing with you, others may well walk by, that's the nature of these things.

 

There is an element of discretion for revenue staff in some circumstances and this may involve the issue of a penalty fare notice in areas where this is authorised, or it may be that the inspector will collect a fare, but in these circumstances only the single fare for the journey made will be accepted in accordance with the rules in force.

 

 

 

.

[Bel]

Point taken - as I said to the Customer Service Manager - I've learnt my lesson, never to travel without a ticket.

 

But it still shook me up.

[Grotesque]

Oooo!! You old cynic you!!

 

Perhaps he had a good Rep

 

[Wriggler7]

I often wonder what a 'good rep' is. After a very long and protracted process which resulted in the eventual dismissal of a member of rail staff, I found myself wondering why the Union had supported so effectively a person who had caused so much misery to all of the other staff in the area of work.

 

The Rep told me 'wouldn't you expect a good defence if ever you were accused of something?'. Yes, I do, but I wouldn't have behaved as that member of staff did. The most affected people were also Union members. The Rep (in my honest opinion) should have been beating up management and demanding effective action to get rid of the horrible troglodite. The Union spent a lot of time and effort protecting that one person, at the same time as showing no interest in fighting another, and very legitimate, issue.

 

I doubt if I will ever understand that set of circumstances.

[Old-CodJA]

Couldn't agree more Wriggler, far too much effort is put into defending the indefensible far too often

[tired and late....again]

rofl it's about time people started taking the ****! You lot have done it to us long enough