H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[Bookworm]

We will have to await what the Supreme Court has to say I guess and then we will know.

That's pretty much the long and short of it, yes. The rest, as I said, is pretty much conjecture and idle chit-chat to help us while away the moments.

[InformedSearcher]

I'm just wondering on a side note (whilst we all wait) if the judges do sit in large leather armchairs with brandies and cigars on the go? Just thinking if I were 40 years younger if I'd taken a 'legal' or 'financial' career direction where I'd be now? Probably where I am currently I suppose, darkened room looking at a PC screen! LOL My OU financial courses mean I'll be close to retirement on completion, if ever.

Sorry for the off topic idle banter.

Michael

[fergal71]

can site staff explain why uk26 v experian has been closed, this is so frustrating for members if vital information as in this case is not shared....

 

sorry again off topic but any explanation would be better than this?

[MARTIN3030]

And unfortunately both are incorrect in your thinking. The Court can hand down its verdict after other cases have already been heard since it would only take 2 minutes to actually state that the appeal has succeeded or that the appeal has failed. In fact, we should be reminded the Justice Smith did hand down one of his judgements at the end of the day(after the stock market had closed ).

We will have to await what the Supreme Court has to say I guess and then we will know.

 

 

How are we both incorrect ?

You can only say this if YOU KNOW that it will be a 2 minute handing down after other business.

How can Smiths handling on his judgement have any bearings on this ?

[MARTIN3030]

can site staff explain why uk26 v experian has been closed, this is so frustrating for members if vital information as in this case is not shared....

 

sorry again off topic but any explanation would be better than this?

 

The action was taken because there has been many requests to update,when circumstances dont permit.I can understand it may be frustrating for those following,but everyone here should be aware that often there will be a great need to protect the process as well as those involved.

It seems no explanation was given to this effect before the thread was closed, for which apologies are due.

Sorry if its not expanitive enough,but rest assured,it is in the interests of those directly involved,and thats what should be the main consideration.

[yourbank]

How are we both incorrect ?

You can only say this if YOU KNOW that it will be a 2 minute handing down after other business.

How can Smiths handling on his judgement have any bearings on this ?

It was in what you stated re that it will be on a day when nothing was scheduled. You don't need a whole day for a judgement.

With regards to the 2 minute thing. The Court of Appeal in February took roughly 3 minutes to give its verdict. In fact, it took longer to get a copy of it and for me to say hello to MSE Wendy and getting out of the court than it did for the handing down of the judgement itself.

Ultimately, WE KNOW we will have to wait for any announcement for any pronouncement.

[srfrench]

To recap......if you've not learned patience in the 2.5 years this has been rumling through under a stay then there is no hope for you 8¬)

[barry_2008]

To recap......if you've not learned patience in the 2.5 years this has been rumling through under a stay then there is no hope for you 8¬)

 

Sorry for dragging this thread a bit off topic but.

 

Patients is virtuous and I understand the frustration.

 

Try being locked away in a Mental Health Hospital 24-7 and you will soon understand patients. Hopefully the lot of you will not have to go through that but I do understand why people get shall we say heated.

 

There is a process and this process should be followed to the dots on the I's and the crosses on the T's. Otherwise things tend to get out of hand and we wont get anything done.

 

I agree The FSA waiver should be more detailed and should define exactly what hardship rules are.

 

And I understand that there are those that are not in difficulty any more but have thousands of pounds of charges on there accounts.

 

What I don't understand is why you have to take it out on here were all here to help one an other. There is an old saying Treat others as you expect others to treat yourselves.

[yourbank]

Sorry for dragging this thread a bit off topic but.

 

Patients is virtuous and I understand the frustration.

 

Try being locked away in a Mental Health Hospital 24-7 and you will soon understand patients. Hopefully the lot of you will not have to go through that but I do understand why people get shall we say heated.

 

There is a process and this process should be followed to the dots on the I's and the crosses on the T's. Otherwise things tend to get out of hand and we wont get anything done.

 

I agree The FSA waiver should be more detailed and should define exactly what hardship rules are.

 

And I understand that there are those that are not in difficulty any more but have thousands of pounds of charges on there accounts.

 

What I don't understand is why you have to take it out on here were all here to help one an other. There is an old saying Treat others as you expect others to treat yourselves.

Not entirely sure what you mean on the last bit. SfrFrench simply said what many of us old timers have said. Frustration is only natural due to the high expectations we have all been guilty of giving people ie date will be this date, or that date and yet not telling people that the Supreme Court will not lead to refunds before Christmas this year. Whilst I haven't suffered the things you have I do find a lot of times that there is information in the public domain in which you can clearly see the thinking on what constitutes financial hardship, how it works and specifically what expectations you should have.

[InformedSearcher]

'Barry 2008' - I would consider that aftwr so long the process has become to look more like a farce rather that fair judicial procedure. It becomes quite frustrating to sit here and see what appears to be the FSA giving carte blanche freedom to financial institutions to carry on as before - Which they do! We have watched banks change their T&C's, start to call penalty fees 'Default Charges' and the word 'unfair' comes to mind.

 

One does not notmally get to be in a hospital 24/7 by choice. People are people who want to get something back, feel they have been cheated, feel let down and yes feel frustrated too! I, with respect don't see the Mental Hospital aspect you have made. However put it this way, if it took as long to enter a hospital as it has for this case to proceed then there is no hope.

 

The FSA waiver delays everything however 'hardship' is exactly that. The fact that a bank can 'dictate' what the outcome is of a hardship request in the way they have is quite unacceptable. Consider you are desperate and unlike the charges from banks passed to you in an instant you find they refuse your hardship application and in any case take time to reply. The bank can say 'Sorry not accepted' and the case is closed and there's nothing you can do about it. Now even saints have their breaking point.

 

In this case 'patience is a virtue' is ignored. On your remark of 'Treat others as you expect others to treat yourselves', well in a nutshell if many of us did that then the 'criminal' courts would be overrun by the way many have been treated by this apparantly unfair financial cartel.

 

Michael

(standing on indestructable soap boxes specially imported)

[Thailand]

I had a wee on my local branch last night. I consider that a service and will be charging them accordingly.

 

See what boredom does to people.

[carpman]

i'd like to deposit one in the drop box at my local branch, but my legs aren't long enough:(

[yourbank]

'Barry 2008' - I would consider that aftwr so long the process has become to look more like a farce rather that fair judicial procedure. It becomes quite frustrating to sit here and see what appears to be the FSA giving carte blanche freedom to financial institutions to carry on as before - Which they do! We have watched banks change their T&C's, start to call penalty fees 'Default Charges' and the word 'unfair' comes to mind.

Which is why like many people we keep banging our heads until concussion sets in. Currently, the decision is on whether Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 apply to bank charges. If the OFT are successful then they can apply for an injunction against the terms that they believe are unfair, which they did in the Foxtons case and that is where we could see bank charges terms prohibited, ie they willl not be able to charge anything until a court decides the argument over fairness once and for all.

One does not notmally get to be in a hospital 24/7 by choice. People are people who want to get something back, feel they have been cheated, feel let down and yes feel frustrated too! I, with respect don't see the Mental Hospital aspect you have made. However put it this way, if it took as long to enter a hospital as it has for this case to proceed then there is no hope.

 

The FSA waiver delays everything however 'hardship' is exactly that. The fact that a bank can 'dictate' what the outcome is of a hardship request in the way they have is quite unacceptable. Consider you are desperate and unlike the charges from banks passed to you in an instant you find they refuse your hardship application and in any case take time to reply. The bank can say 'Sorry not accepted' and the case is closed and there's nothing you can do about it. Now even saints have their breaking point.

I actually agree with you on this specific point, that banks' do not explain exactly why they have declined a request under financial hardship. Nationwide are one of the very few that do give a specific reason but very few of the others do except for saying "no, you have to wait" which I think is unacceptable.

In this case 'patience is a virtue' is ignored. On your remark of 'Treat others as you expect others to treat yourselves', well in a nutshell if many of us did that then the 'criminal' courts would be overrun by the way many have been treated by this apparantly unfair financial cartel.

 

Michael

(standing on indestructable soap boxes specially imported)

 

Like the post Michaeal and the bit at the end.

[barry_2008]

My point was maybe there should be a part in the waiver that defines what Hardship is. It seems to be the banks that are defining what it is.

 

Why cant the authorities take control and stop the banks from dictating policy when there is a dispute. It seems to me there passing the buck and the job to the bank.

 

We voted them in for a reason what's the point now in going to the polls if you cant trust your electors to mediate in you're favour.

 

One dose not have to have done something wrong to be in a mental health hospital 24-7. You could be sectioned under the mental health act for up to 6 months at a time.

 

Think I might join you Thailand and try to use the excuse god told me to do it.

Edited November 14, 2009 by barry_2008

[gezwee]

Are there any more free dates this month that we could expect to hear the ruling?

 

Seems to keep slipping back :?

[Bookworm]

My point was maybe there should be a part in the waiver that defines what Hardship is. It seems to be the banks that are defining what it is.

But hardship varies from person to person. Someone on Income Support with rent and Council tax paid for may just about manage on their £50 a week, whilst someone in full-time employment caught with a few debts may well be left with less to live on that the 1st person, even though on paper they would be appear to be better off.

Why cant the authorities take control and stop the banks from dictating policy when there is a dispute. It seems to me there passing the buck and the job to the bank.

 

We voted them in for a reason what's the point now in going to the polls if you cant trust your electors to mediate in you're favour.

Asked and answered. If they did, that would be the 1st step towards becoming a tyranny, and the whole voting thing doesn't sit well with those. ;-)

 

Thai, I don't think that's what they mean by "making a deposit".

[InformedSearcher]

I need to ask a simple question here ....

Can we complain about the FSA and their current seemingly unfair (in)action with regards to the whole 'stay' fiasco? Can we challenge them (okay 2nd question)?

 

Michael

[yourbank]

I need to ask a simple question here ....

Can we complain about the FSA and their current seemingly unfair (in)action with regards to the whole 'stay' fiasco? Can we challenge them (okay 2nd question)?

 

Michael

Legal challenge is a NO(yes I have seen some legal advice with regards to a judicial challenge. The County Courts have also been given advice with regards to the stay by Moore-Blix in February that is was fair since the legal status of bank charges had yet to be decided on. I fully expect that should the Banks' fail in their appeal that they will issue further advice advocating a stay on this. It is a rational approach from the courts while there is no certainty on the issue.

[Thailand]

Think I might join you Thailand and try to use the excuse god told me to do it.

 

Who? It's times like this I wish 'he' were real...then at least the thieving banks would at least have something to worry about. Of course (I feel) he ain't real, and the thieves will get away with their thieving (I'll bet I can substantiate that) whilst they are capable of doing so.

 

I think we should wage an internal war - I got a jiffy on when that lot put a brick through RBS's window.

 

I reserve the right to hate Banks! Oh, why hate them...come and bank at the Bank of Thai....my overdrafts are only 50p a day!

[alex_the_lad]

Currently according to the Supreme Court website there are only two descison scheduled to be handed down on 19th November and the case we're interested in is not one of them...

[barry_2008]

 

I think we should wage an internal war

 

I'm right by you Thailand.

[Bigmac versus]

If the decision on this appeal has been made then it should be handed down there and then and not waiting for a slot, adding more time on to an already lenghty case only adds to more frustration and speculation which we are now seeing on this thread.

[yourbank]

If the decision on this appeal has been made then it should be handed down there and then and not waiting for a slot, adding more time on to an already lenghty case only adds to more frustration and speculation which we are now seeing on this thread.

There are 5 law lords who are writing up their decision. The date mentioned was based on one of them already writing them and so we may as well wait for a press announcement this week which maybe helpful as to the date of handing down. I am sure they have been receiving a lot of calls from everyone who is interested in knowing the date

[bach]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1227892/Gordon-Brown-gives-bank-victims-right-claim-instant-justice.html

[Thailand]

That's a hot link.

 

The measures, to be introduced in a Financial Services Bill on Thursday, are part of an effort by Mr Brown and Chancellor Alistair Darling to react to public anger over the banks' profligacy

 

ANGER? I'll give that ****** anger. Effort my arse. He needs a massive slap the sweaty Bank-lover.

 

Ah well, the sons of b*tches will soon be coughing up.