Thames credit Limited

[scruffykid]

Hi Folks

sorry to bother you all again, i received a letter from Thames Credit Limited about an outstanding debt, i sent off a CCA request and i recieved the following letter, any advice on what i should do next would be appreciated

(hope this works). Also not heard from TBI Finance CCA letter was sent 20th Feb Thanks again

Cheers Ian

thames.doc

[mrmarmite]

hello, ignore the letter as they have requested it. IF they point blank refused then they in trouble, it is their legal obligation to provide it,

 

as said they are requesting it from OC so ignore it

[scruffykid]

Thanks very much my friend

[spider2]

hi scruffy. the letter you got from Thames is a bog standard template letter they send to everyone. Its amazeing to me they seem to actually believe the utter rubbish they print.

 

I'm dealing with these idiots parent company, Aktiv Kapital on behalf of my wife, she recieved the same letter almost word for word.

 

I cant go into details as Trading Standards are prepareing action agaisnt both Thames Credit and Aktiv Kapital.

 

I would suggest that if Thames fail to supply the agreement, which is alsmost certain they wont, you contact your local Trading Standards and complain.

 

The more complaints logged agaianst these two companies the better they are the lowest of the low.

 

 

Good luck and do not speak on the phone to them insist everything is to be in writing.

[pt2537]

As owners of the Debt they do have an obligation to supply the documents,

 

Draw their attention to the fact that, per section 189 Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

“creditor ” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

oh dear it looks like theyre stuffed

 

since they have taken ownership of the debt it would imply absolute assignment per Law of Property Act 1925 and that means they have taken all the rights and duties.this fits with the definition of "creditor" under S189 and therefore they have a duty to supply the info and furthermore if they dont supply it in 12 working days, they are up the creek as they cant enforce the agreement

[scruffykid]

hi folks

i received a copy of my application for Beneficial Finance credit card yesterday with a letter asking to contact them with regards payment i dont dispute that i owe them but do dispute the amount they are asking for is there anything i can do about this ? also i had ppi would i be able to claim this back off thames credit or would i have to go through HFC.

thanks to everyones advice and im sorry if these questions have been answered on many other threads unfortunatley i dont get much chance to get online, thanks once again

 

Ian

[FLWLSW]

i received a copy of my application for Beneficial Finance credit card yesterday

 

Ok, an application form is not a CCA. Could you possibly scan a copy of it and post ( with identifying details removed) for someone with knowledge to look at.

[loyalbrummie]

mrs brummie has had virtually the same letter and no cca has turned up so just hang fire matey .

[scruffykid]

heres a scanned copy its not very clear anyway hope it's legible if not i'll try it a different way

 

cheers

 

Ian

beneficial finance.doc

[pt2537]

well thats very good, very good indeed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to make a paper aeroplane out of, but as a credit agreement, it SUCKS

 

 

no prescribed terms for starters and its not easily legible so game over

[ODC]

Hi Folks

sorry to bother you all again, i received a letter from Thames Credit Limited about an outstanding debt, i sent off a CCA request and i recieved the following letter, any advice on what i should do next would be appreciated

(hope this works). Also not heard from TBI Finance CCA letter was sent 20th Feb Thanks again

Cheers Ian

They are also obliged under S 175 of the CCA to pass any requests to the original creditor. They neednt claim to be doing it as ''good business practice'' ITS THE LAW

 

Thames wouldnt know good business practice if it hit them on the head.

[babybear39]

They are also obliged under S 175 of the CCA to pass any requests to the original creditor. They neednt claim to be doing it as ''good business practice'' ITS THE LAW

 

Thames wouldnt know good business practice if it hit them on the head.

 

And neither would their parent company aktiv krapitol

[confused78]

The letter you got in the first instance is almost identical to the one they sent me. Needless to say all phone calls have stopped and I've received no CCA (they received my request on the 11th Feb) All they sent was a half arsed notice of assignment which didn't even have my name/address or account number on it - could have been written to anyone. The "CCA" they've sent you is just an application form - point this out to them if you want or ignore them unless they send a proper one which I can almost guarantee they don't have.

[ODC]

Send them this

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

 

You attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xx/xx/2007 I requested ********supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ******** have failed to comply with my request and have totally ignored my written reminders sent via recorded delivery of this fact. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or *******, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******* comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
  
• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
  
• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

On a side note its nice to see that the River Rats have purchased a new printer and computer and are notusing the silly green paper with the .6 font

[scruffykid]

sorry for the delayed response folks, thanks to everyone for their excellent advice it is really appreciated i will keep you posted of any more nonsense from thames credit or TBI financial (still not had a response from TBI and it's coming up to 30 working days since i sent off the cca request)

 

Cheers again

 

Ian

[scruffykid]

hi folks

i sent off the above letter and this is the reply for Thames Credit the reply

any advice would be great

thanks

Ian

TC120508.doc

[NailPost]

Stick by what you said in the letter - principally you will not discuss with them any matter regarding this account until "I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist"

 

As for phoning them - don't even think about it.

 

Further action - a short note, nothing more than three sentences, a) stating thanks for the letter, b) send me the documents or crawl back under your stone c) send me your complaints procedure cos I want to make one.

[ODC]

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES phone these muppets. You made a Legal Request for your CCA. Obviously they are unable to find it.

 

Dear Thames.

The contents of your letter are noted. For the avoidance of any doubt please NOTE I will not be phoning you under any circumstances. Not only are you in default of my CCA request but you have in fact committed a summary offence.

Please supply by return either -;

WRITTEN confirmation that you are unable to fulfil your lawful obligations

OR

Full details of your Complaints Procedure as required per CCA2006.

Failure to comply with the above will lead initially to a complaint to Trading Standards.

[rameses_qc]

You could always ask Thames Credit **** to attend an inquest (as in the poor woman who they hounded to death) You would never hear from them again!!

[ODC]

A CAG email also causes them to disappear rather swiftly

[scruffykid]

thanks folks

i'll keep you posted on further letters and such