Is this an unfair dismissal?

[anipeet]

I was a Mobile Responder and sacked last saturday per direct. I started working in this function in april 2004 through the council under an temporarly contract. They told me that the company would be sold soon and that my contract would be permanent when the new company would take over. This takeover was taking a long time and was finalised in jan 2006. Got my contract, didnt signed it because there was a mistake. The new company (1) would send me new contract which they never did. Then in nov 2006 they asked me to fill in a application form just for the record... which I filled in and signed. Then in aug 2007 the company was sold again to company (2). And now in march 2008 we finally got to meet our new boss. There was a staffmeeting which I attend and all was ok. The next day we could have a one on one with the new boss what I did because I wanted to let him know that I wanted to do more hours. In this conversation he said he wasnt sure what to do because he had seen my disclosure? (will explain in a min) Ok I said please let me know what would happen. And now it comes: Because i work with elderly pps from day 1 they told me they had to ask for a disclosure. No problem, council did and was ok. But than in july 2004 when we were away for the weekend my kids had a party and the police came out found a lil bit of cannabis and I took the blame (so my kids wouldnt get in problems with it) I got of with a caution. Which was mentioned on my disclosure. In may 2006 I had a conversation about it with company 1 and because it was a while ago and not totaly to blame at me they let it go. Later that year I got a search of the police in my house and they found a (sealed) pepperspray can and a old cattle prod. These items I had for a long long time, I used to live in Holland and these items arent a problem to have. Little did I know it would be here in the UK. So the police took these items and put me on bail. They werent sure if they would charge me or my husband for it. In the meantime I had to fill in the application form with the question if I had any convictions on my name. I called my sollicitor and he said I could fill in NO because I only had a caution. That what I did. In feb 2007 I got a copy of my disclosure and nothing from the weapons was on it yet. But in jan 2007 the police told me they would charge me with the weapons. So I arrange for a meeting with my companyboss (1). I informed them what happend and that there was a courtcase on the way. All was fine and they were glad I was honest and upfront about it. Then company 2 came. And this company wanted also a disclosure. No problems, i filled in the paperwork and put a extra note with it, plus a copy of my disclosre from the year before and in the note I told them about the weapon charge (I got a vine of 280 pound what I paid straight away!)This was send to the company on 17 jan 2008. Than there was my one on one last week. And suddenly on saturday I got a letter that I was dismissed per direct because of dishonestly in my application form? He wrote that I wasnt honest about the drug caution??? He also wrote I couldnt contact my office or collegues, nothing ..... and only got 1 week pay. The letter btw arrived on the same day that I called in sick (for the first time in 4 years with a frozen shoulder!) What to do now???? My collegues still thinks that I will be back soon.... Dont know what to do about it anymore!! I worked there for 4 years Had a contract for 26 hours but worked more than 40 every week, No problems what so ever can they do this without any explanation at all!! Thanks for reading my problem and hope this nightmare will end soon

[poppynurse]

I think you need to appeal in writing. Hopefully someone with more experience will be along to advise soon.

[PI Guy]

You need to consult an employment solicitor in the 1st instance. No forum will be able to give you appropriate advice.

[cal37]

First off, put in a letter of appeal. I would say on the face of things you have been unfairly dismissed. You really need to seek legal advice; this is far to complex to advices via this forum.

Are you a member of a trade union? If so contact them ASAP but get that letter of appeal in.

[bed32]

As others have said this is a very complex case and you will need to take professional advice. Even then I am afraid that you are unlikely to get a clear answer.

 

If they stated at the time because they had reasonable grounds to suspect you of committing a crime then that would usually be regarded as a fair reason for dismissal.

 

If they are saying that they are dismissing you because you lied on your application form then you are probably in a good position. I think they can only sack you if you lied on an application form in a situation where they would not have given you the job had you not lied. If you filled in the form after you were already doing the job then that is unlikely to be the case.

 

You need to do some research on the web about your rights under the Employment Relations Act (or something like that). Even if they have the right to dismiss you the employer needs to follow a very strict process. That includes calling you to a meeting, allowing you to be accompanied to the meeting, giving you the right to appeal and similar. If they have omitted any of those steps then your dismissal will be held to be automatically unfair.

 

In the meantime as others have said, write to them saying you wish to appeal your dismissal. If you do not already have it ask them to provide you with a copy of their disciplinary and grievance procedures.

 

I think it is likely that you will find grounds to go to a tribunal but you should be aware that that can be a very unpleasant and time-consuming process. If possible you would be better coming to a compromise agreement with your employer.

 

So my uninformed and totally unprofessional opinion is that you have been unfairly dismissed you will need to get legal advice.

[cal37]

As others have said this is a very complex case and you will need to take professional advice. Even then I am afraid that you are unlikely to get a clear answer.

 

If they stated at the time because they had reasonable grounds to suspect you of committing a crime then that would usually be regarded as a fair reason for dismissal.

 

If they are saying that they are dismissing you because you lied on your application form then you are probably in a good position. I think they can only sack you if you lied on an application form in a situation where they would not have given you the job had you not lied. If you filled in the form after you were already doing the job then that is unlikely to be the case.

 

You need to do some research on the web about your rights under the Employment Relations Act (or something like that). Even if they have the right to dismiss you the employer needs to follow a very strict process. That includes calling you to a meeting, allowing you to be accompanied to the meeting, giving you the right to appeal and similar. If they have omitted any of those steps then your dismissal will be held to be automatically unfair.

 

In the meantime as others have said, write to them saying you wish to appeal your dismissal. If you do not already have it ask them to provide you with a copy of their disciplinary and grievance procedures.

 

I think it is likely that you will find grounds to go to a tribunal but you should be aware that that can be a very unpleasant and time-consuming process. If possible you would be better coming to a compromise agreement with your employer.

 

So my uninformed and totally unprofessional opinion is that you have been unfairly dismissed you will need to get legal advice.

 

 

Its the Employment Act 2002 part 3 you need look up.

 

Failure to follow the standard procedure will indeed amount to unfair dismissal unless the employer can show that the failure to follow the procedure would have made no difference to the outcome.

Also a procedural unfairness that does not fall within the SDDP may be totally excused and render the dismissal fair if it can be shown that, on balance, the employee would have been dismissed in any event.

[bed32]

Its the Employment Act 2002 part 3 you need look up.

 

Failure to follow the standard procedure will indeed amount to unfair dismissal unless the employer can show that the failure to follow the procedure would have made no difference to the outcome.

 

Also a procedural unfairness that does not fall within the SDDP may be totally excused and render the dismissal fair if it can be shown that, on balance, the employee would have been dismissed in any event.

Of course I did mean "procedurally unfair" not "automatically unfair". Under the circumstances the employer would struggle to show that it was reasonable not to give the OP a chance to respond or the right to be accompanied.

 

Therefore the likelihood is that the dismissal would be procedurally unfair (assuming the process was not followed) even though the ET might decide that the dismissal was not substantively unfair. In those circumstances the payout would be small

[cal37]

Or no payout at all. It has been known a few times, in fact only last week.

 

The very first thing needed is to appeal, if the company gives the appeal and hears it fairly then with the information given, I afraid it’s unlikely that the OP will win a case in a ET.

 

However as always, the OP needs to seek the advice of an employment lawyer, giving all details, supporting paperwork etc etc at that time.

[anipeet]

Hello,

 

First of all let me thank everybody who took the time to read about my problem. Ald ofcourse Ive contacted a employer lawyer so fingers cross that he can work some out for me.

 

And it is not about the money at all. For me it is about fair play!! From the minute I knew there would be something on my disclosure I have been upfront with. I didnt want to lie about it and did expected some fairness back! I totally understand that they dont want eanybody with a criminal record, but the fact will that I do this job for 4 years now and I have spoken to all of my employers about it and ofc I understood they werent happy about it but they also told me that (I am talking about company 1) it wasnt a problem bec the caution was a long time ago and I showed them the paperwork that I took the blame for my eldest. And with the conviction I did the same. I Just live here for 4.5 years and didnt know that those things were considered as weapons here in the UK. But now it looks like I want to excuse myself what isnt the case. I did something wrong! Company 1 also said that my disclosure wasnt that much of a problem because it wasnt for fraud, theft or abuse. In principle it had nothing to do with the work what I do (did). What I find unfair is that company 2 never met me before or never spoke to me about anything and just fired me! They also mentioned that I wasnt allowed to talk to any collegues or clients anymore. My collegues are now calling me when I am back in. Its just awfull, I feel like sh*t about it. After 4 years I am not even allowed to say goodbye in a decent way. Ive never been of sick I did more than my best for this company and really believe it or not I loved this job and would do anything for it. But is wasn;t mend to be! xxx

Its just the way how they did it......I cant beleave that companies dont have more respect for their people.