Fuel Protest

[JOSH_IOU]

Well i just want to be able to afford to buy a car and run it.

 

With the prices these days that is not going to happen.

 

I just hope the public bus service prices do not go up.

Otherwise I am stuck to the local shops.

 

People that say i don't have the right to complain about fuel prices need to do a little more research before they start complaining.

 

I appreciate all the support any one can give to this protest. and i urge evryone to agree to a date so we can get this thing out of the maybe perhaps stage.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

This is a very difficult situation and one that I fear will not be won by the motorist. There are just so many complications and it is not as easy as saying let's just get the cost of fuel down for the motorist.

 

Should we not first get people out of fuel poverty so they can simply survive? Rather than focussing on being able to drive affordably?

 

Will all the motorways become pay as you go instead?

 

If fuel becomes cheaper then congestion will increase. For example, I gave up my car as the costs were so huge. If they become cheaper I may get a car. Also, I had a small courier business which I also gave up two years ago due to fuel costs. I may be tempted to start up again if it seems I can make a living.

 

Therefore, as one individual, I may have 5 or 6 extra vehicles on the road. Times this by whatever.

 

Congestion charges nationwide?

 

Why focus on fuel? Council tax is a much greater scandal with the increases compared to fuel in the last ten years. And one doesn't have a choice!

 

Environmental concerns with extra traffic or people using their car more because they would afford it?

 

What will increase if the government loses billions on fuel revenue? Income tax? Council tax? NI?

 

What will the solution be in 50 years to the same problem when oil becomes even more rare?

[SklyaFett]

Also a cut in fuel duty will allow people, usually the more wealthy, to use their cars more. Not to single anyone out here but is it really vital that people get to use a Nissan Skyline more often ? You will remove money from the puplic purse to pay for this. The environmentalists will push this. The public will see lower fuel and more X5s on the road whilst pensioners and the poor suffering fuel poverty still won't get the heating they need because the money will not be available.

 

I am not a green meany, I am a car enthusiast.

 

 

:o

 

mmmmmmmmmm...................................... do nothing and pay more............. nice. But if we protest and prices go down we are all better off.

Car enthusiast i think not. Lazy middle aged man who has got so used to being shafted that hes does not notice when it gets worse. And this goes for most of the UK public.

 

Sit by and do nothing and prices go up and up. Say something or do something and we have a chance of it not going up so much. Its make me laugh when i listen to people who will do nothing.

[citizenB]

No idea. What's the Grangemouth thing?

 

I've just come through Dover a few days ago - there was no sign of a blockade.

 

 

Grangemouth is the refinery that had the 48 hour strike

[fergal71]

maybe the government would be more inclined to use our money more wisely and not squander billions of pounds. they need to be more accountable to how they spend our money until this day we are in a vicious circle of rising everything apart from wages.... which means more poverty for the masses

[Conniff]

I wonder how many of you think the tax system on fuel is unfair.

 

Fuel is taxed twice – firstly by fuel duty and then by VAT. Fuel duty is a fixed amount (47.1p per litre for unleaded and diesel) and VAT is a percentage (17.5%).

 

Just to add to the original posting.

 

North sea oil is taxed 3 times.

 

There is a 50% capital gains tax on every pint that come out of the seabed before it reaches shore for refining.

There is another 70% taken when it reaches the pumps.

[dave]

Grangemouth is the refinery that had the 48 hour strike

 

Ah, I missed that. I wasn't here.

[JOSH_IOU]

Just to add to the original posting.

 

North sea oil is taxed 3 times.

 

There is a 50% capital gains tax on every pint that come out of the seabed before it reaches shore for refining.

There is another 70% taken when it reaches the pumps.

 

Good point there conniff.

 

Dave the oil depot strike was last month.

 

I still think the Libems have the right idea. I no there is a lot of publicity about this one. However with an addition I think the tax on oil should be taken off and the tax on what we use should be changed. I.e tax the cars that use more fuel and give small courier company's tax breaks. The large company's should be forced to reduce how much pollution they relaese in the atmosphere. In turn this creates competition which will be good for all of us.

 

I do not think tax should be taken off completely as this pays for the needy things in life allegedly. NHS, schools re-nationalise public transport.

 

So in short i think a re-structure is in order scrapping tax is an easy way out.

[Tigstheterror]

Well count me in with any sort of protest, and yes,liasing with the police does actually help the cause. At the end of the day we have to at least try and be heard,remember when the last one was done at least he held off putting the duty up didn't he? i know he will probably then come back with a higher one, but then again, if we don't organise something to roll out countrywide then how will we ever know if it does do at least a small change for the common person,you never know until you try.

Lets try and not be defeatest before we even start, after all it was one person who started the ball rolling with bank charges reclaiming and one man who fought to take on the powers that be over loop holes with the speed camera system!!!!

Maybe we could organise a few central meetings and get some good ideas? See which areas people live who are interested and co ordinate meets then report back to a main spokesperson,could nominate someone on here say, then they could go over all of the suggestions and have someone help with law and what we could and couldn't do etc.....am i making any sense? lol i hope so!! anyways count myself and fiance' in to help/do/anything/anytime you want,the little people have to start being heard and stop the defeatest attitudes!!!!

Hugs Tigs x

[gazebo]

This thread is interesting but it repeats the arguments that have been circulating on this issue for years. How can ordinary members of the public protest against the Government's rip off taxes on a basic commodity like fuel?

 

Cars blockading roads is difficult as it would be pretty indistinguishable from heavy traffic. Lorries doing so is different but, by definition that excludes most people. Picketing the refineries is a good idea but a) most people don't know how to do that and b) as I understand it the Government changed the law to make this more difficult. It also requires a degree of organisation that would be hard to establish. Finally, the idea of boycotting a particular fuel company for a period. Again this requires an awful lot of coordination and, with the best will in the world, without picketing the petrol stations most people would be unaware of it. Even if it did succeed it would be sending a confused message- buycott an oil company to hit the Government.

 

There are a couple of internet petitions running at the moment. This is a more conventional form of protest but their impact is marginal and diminishes rapidly after they close. Governments simply ignore them.

 

What's needed is a really simple form of mass protest, requiring as little effort as possible but that's sustained over a sufficient period of time so that it's noticed, gains momentum and is impossible for the Government to ignore.

 

So here's my idea...

 

The traditional way of making a written protest is to send a letter to your MP or to a Government minister. Quite often campaigning organisations do form letters with the idea that loads of people will send them in. If an MP receives a 1,000 letters from constituents on a subject they tend to take notice. However, these protests tend to be one offs.

 

How about a campaign where a member of the public sends a protest note to the Government and/ or their MP every time they fill up? The idea is to design a simple A4 flyer that sets out the reasons why it's ridiculous that the Government thinks it can make us 58% fuel duty and VAT. The individual puts the flyer in an envelope and sends it off to Gordon Brown and/ or their MP. Imagine being an MP and receiving several hundred or thousands of these flyers every week.

 

With any written campaign of this type there are all sorts of issues about defining objectives and the wording of documents but I'm not getting into that here- I'm focussing on the mechanism. This sort of campaign would depend on two things: Firstly, people would have to be angry enough to send in the flyer on a sustained basis. Personally I think there's a lot of anger out there at the moment and I think people want to protest. This is an easy way of doing so. Secondly, people would have to able to get hold of the flyers. This would be through a mix of campaigning websites, emails to contacts and some people would probably design their own flyers with their own message. That wouldn't matter provided that the message got across that people were fed up and wanted the Government to reduce taxes on fuel.

 

The key argument against this type of campaign is that fuel taxes are a nice little earner for the Government and that they'd ignore it. I don't think they would. If vast numbers of people are angry about this (and I think they are) then this campaign would be pushing at an open door after the thrashing Labour has taken recently. They are already quite likely to cancel the increase in duty scheduled for the autumn but personally I don't see why we should pay any more for fuel than in the United States and at the very least in Europe.

 

Finally there are a couple of variants on the concept. Firstly, people could send the protest flyers to the Government (not individual MPs) unstamped. I'm not sure if this is legal but, if it is, it would send a more powerful message. And secondly, in addition to the posted flyer, people could give the cashier another flyer every time they fill up. This risks making the campaign too complex but it would be even easier than posting something.

 

Anyway, an idea that I don't think I've seen anywhere else. In case anyone wonders who I am, I used to be the moderator Seminole on this site.

[JOSH_IOU]

I agree with the idea of protest.

 

This might fit in with CAG.

 

"Sounds" like we are helping people to help themselves;)

[Sneaker]

How about a campaign where a member of the public sends a protest note to the Government and/ or their MP every time they fill up? The idea is to design a simple A4 flyer that sets out the reasons why it's ridiculous that the Government thinks it can make us 58% fuel duty and VAT. The individual puts the flyer in an envelope and sends it off to Gordon Brown and/ or their MP. Imagine being an MP and receiving several hundred or thousands of these flyers every week.

I like it.

[Sneaker]

For petrol the tax is currently 50.35p per litre fuel duty(due to go up 2p/litre 1.10.2008) plus 16.52p VAT making 66.87p per litre in total, or 60.3% of the 110.9p total price.

For diesel it's higher. 50.35p per litre fuel duty(again to go up 2p/litre 1.10.2008) plus 18p VAT making 68.35p per litre in total. From the latest SMMT April registration figures diesel fuelled vehicles now make up approaching 50% of all vehicles.

[Sparklez30]

How about a campaign where a member of the public sends a protest note to the Government and/ or their MP every time they fill up? The idea is to design a simple A4 flyer that sets out the reasons why it's ridiculous that the Government thinks it can make us 58% fuel duty and VAT. The individual puts the flyer in an envelope and sends it off to Gordon Brown and/ or their MP. Imagine being an MP and receiving several hundred or thousands of these flyers every week.

 

 

I like it too. If the flier was sent to one MP and this information provided on the flier I think there is more chance people would complete it and send it off. I think there are alot unhappy with fuel prices these days which increases the chances of people completing a set form and posting it off!

[TaxedAndConfused]

mmmmmmmmmm...................................... do nothing and pay more............. nice. But if we protest and prices go down we are all better off.

 

Except all the people who suddenly find the things they rely on being cut - fuel duty pays for loads of things - it won't just be MPs losing the icing of their cream buns. You still haven't said where the money for that should come from.

 

As someone who is being shafted I refuse to be shafted some more so that people can drive Skylines for less cash.

 

Car enthusiast i think not. Lazy middle aged man who has got so used to being shafted that hes does not notice when it gets worse. And this goes for most of the UK public.

 

I would agree with the last point. As for the first part are you saying I'm fat , how very dare you. I have an economical daily car and a thirsty sports car being welded. Have you see the price of leccy for welding these days ? Its no joke.

 

Sit by and do nothing and prices go up and up. Say something or do something and we have a chance of it not going up so much. Its make me laugh when i listen to people who will do nothing.

 

I kind of laugh at people who just come up with a single issue without thinking of its implications. Simply shouting a lot or causing a lot of people difficulties in their lives - for example people paid by the hour not getting to work is quite serious really.

 

And it is only going to lose you support like it did last time.

 

We can make an immediate difference. Fuel duty is due to go up again later this year but at the moment the government is earning a ton of extra money on high oil prices. I think one should pay for the other. Lets start a serious campaign to do that.

 

That is a reasonably argued point which would gain national support immediately. Blair got out of the original protest by making the same points as me.

 

And yes I do feel quite uncomfortable being on the same side of the argument as that *$%T.

[fergal71]

HI maybe try this site this is direct link to your local MP and They do reply. If people feel MP's are the wway then try this.... lets try all avenues...

 

I am starting to feel like we are becoming a scene from the life of Brian, apart from sanitation what have the romans ever done for us.... the JPF talked a great deal about rebellion but didnt really achieve much. If anyone is a fan they will know what I am talking about.

 

I would just like to say I think CAG has achieved quite a lot for a great number of people although I also feel that with co-ordination it could achieve so much more. I would be happy to donate say £1-£10 times by 170,000 could be used for people to make this site more effective or pay some solicitors fees etc... the only thing this government will listen to is the masses... the police and the army are is P***ed off as we are and as long as we have a strong argument for what we do I can not see any of us being shot... probably more chance of being shot in any high street in most cities....

[fergal71]

sorry forgot to add link in previous post

 

WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free

 

 

Maybe copy and send this to all your friends

 

We are hitting £111.9 a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying £1.20 a ltr.

 

 

 

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

 

Please read it and join in!

 

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

 

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP.

 

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP and Esso

 

If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!!

 

Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

 

I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send i t to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300).... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) . and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it... .

 

THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

 

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! Acting together we can make a difference . If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.

 

PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE

 

It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP and Esso

[5layer]

Hi,

 

When is this going to be official??

 

I would like to get started as soon as possible.

 

Thanks

[kennythecelt]

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Fuel bills are 'burden' on firms

 

A motion this Wednesday in the Scottish Parliament:

 

 

"That the parliament notes that the price of diesel is now over £1.30 in the Western Isles and across Scotland's island and remote communities, making it probably the most expensive diesel in the western world; further notes that fuel costs now represent an ever increasing burden in the Western and Northern Isles, not least for businesses and fishermen, some of whom report 80% increases in diesel costs in the last two years; notes that the main company delivering fuel to the islands deposits fuel at differing costs at different ports on the west coast despite the fact that the same vessel is used; notes the irony of an oil-producing nation putting its motorists, businesses, fishermen and rural businesses in this impossible position, and finally notes the various measures that exist in parts of France, which make cuts in fuel duty in the remotest areas."

 

(The Scottish Parliament does not have powers in this area, that rests with Westminster.)

 

BBC NEWS | UK | Brown to meet oil industry chiefs

 

Brown to meet oil industry chiefs

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Shell rejects windfall tax calls

 

Oil giant Shell has rejected calls for a windfall tax on oil companies' record profits

 

BBC NEWS | Politics | Speculation over road tax rethink

 

BBC NEWS | UK | Poorer drivers 'hit hard' by tax

 

Speculation over road tax rethink.

 

 

(Interestingly, more CO2 is emitted during the manufacture of a car than that car emitts from the petrol used during its lifetime use of petrol/ diesel. This suggests that there is sense, from a green point of view, not to condemn older cars to the scrap heap, but to keep them on the roads, properly serviced! )

Edited May 28, 2008 by kennythecelt
Scottish Paliament..... sentence added

[dave]

(Interestingly, more CO2 is emitted during the manufacture of a car than that car emitts from the petrol used during its lifetime use of petrol/ diesel. This suggests that there is sense, from a green point of view, not to condemn older cars to the scrap heap, but to keep them on the roads, properly serviced! )

 

More oil and in particular, more fresh water is used in the production of a car than CO2 emitted during it's lifetime.

 

There are people in the world who are dying through lack of access to fresh water.

 

How is it then, that as they suggest, "oil is running out" (I personally think this is yet more lies and spin) and we are at 'peak oil', that water is still 'cheap'?

 

There's more oil than fresh water.

[Guest Gertie100]

Kenny - can you advise where you got the gem of information from about the C02 emissions during the manufacture and lifetime of cars from? I've just mentioned this somewhere else and been completely shouted down...that will teach me won't it!

[kennythecelt]

Kenny - can you advise where you got the gem of information from about the C02 emissions during the manufacture and lifetime of cars from? I've just mentioned this somewhere else and been completely shouted down...that will teach me won't it!

 

Oh, now you're asking Gertie! It stuck in my mind at the time I read it and I have not made it up. Pretty sure it was something to do with the Energy Savings Trust or similar organisation.

 

I will do some searching around and give you the links so you can sort em out!!

 

Note that some Scandanavian countries encourage the retention and proper servicing of older cars by hefty taxes on new cars because of this very point, ie keep the older cars on the road as long as possible because of all the "energy" that went into their total manufacture. The recycling of the various components at a scrap heat does not begin to compensate for their demise.

 

Take care and regards, Kenny

[stockport6]

It is not just the goverment. Like mortgage interest rates. If the Bank of England puts up the rate the banks sting you for it in a matter of minutes. If the rate goes down they wait weeks before they pass the savings onto you.

 

The same happens with diesel. On May 23 - the day after oil hit a record $135 a barrel - diesel was selling at $1,342 a ton, but yesterday the price had dropped to $1,203.

 

On May 23 the average cost of a litre of diesel was 126.7p per litre. Yesterday it stood at 129.9p.

 

Now the oil companies often argue that they cannot drop the price because the petrol at the pumps was bought weeks ago when the price was high put as you saw the price went up minutes after the price of a barrel went up. That means they were charging more for petrol they bought weeks ago at a lower price.

 

Why do we stand for it. I know a petition makes you feel like your doing something but really they couldn't care less. Perhaps its time to make everyone vote with their feet.

The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea: For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one),

ESSO and BP. If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.

[JOSH_IOU]

What dose evryone think about the 4 day strike over pay?

 

Tanker drivers' strike third day | The Sun |HomePage|News|Sun Money

 

Here is the sun article that was passed to me.

First time ive admited to reading this paper.

[skbuncks]

I think they're bloody cheeky bast**ds. They get paid a basic wage of £32000 for what is a relatively unskilled job ie driving and hooking the tanker up to fill and unfill. Who knows how much this is increased to when you add on overtime etc.

As a comparison I am in a highly skilled profession (Research Chemist in Pharms industry) and they earn a damn site more than I do. I dream of the day we get offered a 13 % pay rise, 3 % would be nice. I suppose they are quite fortunate in that when they go on strike the whole nation takes notices, if they were shelf stackers in tescos no one would give a damn.

 

skb

Edited June 16, 2008 by skbuncks