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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Link/MBNA Claimform - Card Debt Poss statute barred **Struck Out**


rudy1
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Thought if they don't have the documents they have a case, when are you next in court? How can they prove then that you owe the debt! I reckon the statue barred law is a joke, doesn't seem that there are clear guide lines really, you are argue it on both sides! its so stupid.....

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Hi rudy, I think it went OK really from what you have said. I think the judge was saying that to argue the statute barred thing when there is some doubt about the date would be a bad idea, whereas if they can't come up with the agreement that is a much easier way to defend. Sounds as if he was pretty clued up about the CCA. If Link have not managed to send you an agreement yet it seems unlikely that they will suddenly find one. I do think you will be OK. As you have no doubt read on here there are differences of opinion about when the statute bar comes into effect, if creditors take a long time to issue a default notice etc etc.

 

You have done your best. Imagine what would have happened if you hadn't turned up.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Hi Rudy, have been reading a couple of posts by a new guy on the block “Aloysius” he is quite enlightening regarding litigation procedures. Suggest you PM him and outline your situation and a link to your thread. He comes across as well clued up.

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hi thank goldlady, think your right, if i didn't turn up could the judge just say that i have to pay, feel a bit bad using the operation thing but sod it, i'm losing a kidney may as well get something out of it!

 

That list of your is very impressive, i'm knackered. still working.

...be at my machine for a couple of hours yet.

Easier than when the kids are up though

 

cool thanks letit, will do, i'll have a look at what he's got to say, thanks.

 

can't find him,

went to the top and put a search on aloysius?

you know me by now,

bit of a thickie when it come to this,

 

n't mind pt2537's opion and jonchris, haven't heard from him in ages....

 

i given up think i need to go night night, my little man still waking through the night.

I thank you lots so mch for all your support,

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aloysiush is the person I think you are looking for. The user called aloysius appears never to have made any posts.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Sorry Rudy, missed this post. will help with your situation when we know what the DCA reveals.

 

Thought if they don't have the documents they have a case, when are you next in court? How can they prove then that you owe the debt! I reckon the statue barred law is a joke, doesn't seem that there are clear guide lines really, you are argue it on both sides! its so stupid.....
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Well done Rudy, standing up to these companys takes a lot of guts.

 

It was my first time in a court situation when I defended against Link, going up against somone that you know is way more experienced is so nerve racking and the waiting around before is the worsed time.

 

I agree with goldlady, they have had long enough to provide a cca, and I don't think you wll be going back into court again.

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What amazes me is that the courts waste their time hearing cases that they dont need to.

 

Surely with debt cases the first question they should ask before it comes to court is when the debt relates to?

 

If the DCA or creditor doesnt know, it should never be allowed to get close to court.

 

I am amazed Link turned up.

 

I think you have them on the run Rudy.

 

If they had any documentation, they would definately have taken it with them.

 

Even their solicitor thought they were planks.

 

!0/10 for having the bottle to face them.

 

I think you will hear no more.

 

I just noted the comment from JonChris. I agree comppletely with you, but whilst you may well know the date of last contact/payment, how do you prove it?

 

All the best.

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Have read the thread.

 

The claim, if your last payment date is correct, is statute barred. A matter is barred if no payment or acknowledgement made in the last six years. They cannot extend the limitation period by writing letters, regardless of content.

 

Your matter has been stayed and they have been allowed 28 days to produce the docs they should have produced upon disclosure. As usual the DCA's use mediocre legal personnel.

 

The judge should have made an 'unless' order. In other words if they do not produce, the matter is automatically struck out. Regardless, wait the 28 days and then make application on N.244 to strike out for failure to comply with the order. However, check the actual order when it arrives as it may be an unless order as indicated above.

 

To be fair, if you had a solicitor today the matter would have been struck out or at least adjourned with a nice order of costs against them. There are lots of solicitors out there who will take these cases on a no win no fee basis, but you will have to look around to get the right one, as this is a nuanced area of the law. You will probably not need one now, as yours looks like a winner. Fingers crossed and good luck.

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Thanks for all your comments,

interesting about the statue barred things,

it was like he was saying i had 2 avenues to go down,

one the SB, which he was saying would be hard to prove and complicated or lack of document way forward,

 

he seemed to strongly advise lack of doc route,

saying "i don't think you want to go down SB route do you",

if they produce documents i will get solicitor,

the one who helped with the allocation questionaire, got on well with him,

(had hoped i'd be dropping he in nice a bottle of something this week as way of thank you)

 

he wanted £500 up front which i tried to avoid.

I think they seemed (the judge and the solicitor ) to be pretty nice to me,

the solicitor was very passive,

i was more forthright than him, and the judge, said in a emphatic way

" i can't really do anymore more for you"

after my "for god sake i can't do this anymore" almost burst in to tears but didn't,

 

genuinely feeling desperate at that point when he gave them another 28 days, feels never ending.

But he obviously could do more!

 

Oh and after i thought did i make a mistake on entering,

we walked in and the solicitor said good morning your honour and i just morning without your honour on the end as felt a bit silly, are you suppose to call him your honour.

 

The statue barred bit i did argue saying the law states last payment or admittance,

he wouldn't have it at all,

saying the DCA say oct 02 thats when the default was registered that was when you defaulted,

which i said was irrelivant as surely a oc/dca could register at any point and buy time,

 

he then said thats when the next payment was due,

when the course of action accursed,

to that i said, make is nearly a year after i ever had any credits cards as i cleared everything beginning of jan 02

(or not as the case maybe)

 

Is this a card which has anything to do with me!

True, if DCA want to play that one.

 

On reflection, would of definately just got solicitor to came,

don't think i should of talked quite as much as i did,

i say talk,

think it may of came across as a desperate ramble,

 

oh and i kept putting my hand up,

regressing to the classroom situation,

sitting here grinning,

with a clearer,

calmer memory of my experience,

 

they must i thought

"we've got legally blonde II here" Bugger it.

 

can't do anything now

 

. Thank you everyone.

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Agree entirely aloysiush.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Cheers, off to work. make some money, hopefully,

usually one of my biggest earners of the year and very enjoyable day.

 

Haven't produced quite as much as i would of like to to in the run up, last year almost sold out by lunch time.

 

I earn nearly all my money in summer and have to see it through the winter.

I am as i say each year going to really work through the winter producing this year.

hard when you work from home with kids.

 

Goldlady knows the trials of self employment> take care thank you will keep you all updated on everything.

 

Goodish day yesterday started 7.30 home 8.30, done better, but hot, hot, hot. Not a cloud in the sky today, "going down beach for the day" Hope you all enjoy this lovely weather.

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I don't get this either or approach this judge is putting to you regarding going down the documents road instead of statute barred when you entitled to use both defences . It is an and situation, nor an or. I wouldn't let the statute barred aspect drop just because the judge says it's complicated , sounds to me like he is the only one that is confused about it .

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I would let the statute barred drop as the judge seems to be trying to help by giving the first stage of proving a debts existence. For the statute barred, yes it is over 6 years between last payment and court application, however, the difference is very short, ie months not years and S32 of the Limitation Act could go against Rudy on that basis alone.

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Hi make them aktiv runners, haven't seen you round these parts in ages, hope your well, thanks for your thought, i think your right, just want all this over now, seems to of been going on for a lifetime now. If they produce the goods will definately get a solicitor this time. take care

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Hi everyone got the Order through, but they made a mistake on it..

 

1 my name be ammended, (married now)

2 By consent claim is allocated to small claims track

3 THE CLAIMENT SHALL BY 14TH MARCH 2008 FILE SERVE FULLY DETAILED PARTICULARS OF CLAIM ATTACHING COPIES OF THE AGREEMENT AND A STATEMENT OF THE ACCOUNT AND NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT.

4 The defendant may by 28th August 2008 file and serve ammended defence

5 Otherwise the claim is stayed until 11 september 2008

6 Costs in the case

 

14th march 2008, meant to be August when i phoned court they said they will ammend and resend, don't suppose i can use this as a loophole if worse comes to worse and they come up with docs......

 

Comments welcome, hope your al well, camping at the weekend and it don't look good, so probably be sitting in the van all weekend with screaming kids:D

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14 days down, 14 days to go, now I thinking what happens if they don't come up with the goods and i apply to get it thrown out, if link return the account, would MBNA then send it to another agent? Could it all start again? Not that I'm Worrying about something which hasn't happened yet!

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I would let the statute barred drop as the judge seems to be trying to help by giving the first stage of proving a debts existence. For the statute barred, yes it is over 6 years between last payment and court application, however, the difference is very short, ie months not years and S32 of the Limitation Act could go against Rudy on that basis alone.

 

6 years statute barred is just that 6 years to the day no more no less They could only claim relief through lack of knowledge (no known debt to collect) which is hardly likely.

 

For the judge to find otherwise would not only be wrong in law but also highly prejudicial to the defendant in that any evidence to support the defence may well be long gone (consider naches defence). Any other finding would be immediate grounds for appeal as even CC Judges can only go so far no matter what some might think

 

In fact if this matter is time barred the Judge should make a wasted costs order against the claimant for trying to abuse the process in bringing a matter before the court in the hope that the litigant in person doesn't have the knowledge to defeat their claim

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I don't know what to think about it all just hope they don't come up with the goods, am now worried that if they don't and it gets thrown out that it will be passed to another agent and it could all start again!

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Hi, still here by the way. If they pass it on after the court case has failed then you just ignore them - we did. Not going to tempt fate but have everything crossed for you:D

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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last payment jan15th 02

next payment due feb15th 02

i have spoken to them once 4th feb and written to them 15th feb.

Letter states the default date was september 2002

28 February 2008, Got summons in post today

I was taken ill in 2001, my parents wanted me home so i sold up, moved closer in jan 2002, i know i have not made a payment since, at the latest last payment 23/01/2002 when i was living at my last address. I think its more like 15/01/2002. Am trying to get the actual date from a friend with credit file connects, don't want to link my addresses.

The above are the relevant facts posted by Rudy1.

JonCris I assume you did not follow Sequenci’s lesson on letitbeme’s thread? In Rudy1’s case the cause of action initially is 15 January 2002 resulting in a right of action on 16 February 2002. The creditor should begin their right of action on 16 February 2002 and follow the contractual procedures through until they are able to move into court action, ie after default served. Initially, irrespective of the default date the claim must be made within 6 years of cause of action, ie by 14 January 2008 at the latest.

In Rudy’s case the difference between what is initially the cause of action, ie 15 January 2008 and the actual court submission date, ie before 28 February 2008 is probably less than 5 weeks outside the normal 6 year limitation period.

Section 32 which as been widely discussed in the House of Lords, allows for both the cause and right of action dates to be extended where some relevant factor has been with-held from the creditor. Their general concept is that some relevant factor has to be concealed with the deliberate intention of delaying the creditor’s right of action. The facts above show that the first missed payment was after moving address. In my personal opinion, there is a good case to change the right of action as the address move and sudden non-payment can be deemed as deliberate, irrespective of whether it actually was. To change the right of action to the date that the creditor could first begin their contractual proceedings to the date that they could reasonably be aware of the new address is likely to fall within more than the 5 week gap. If the right of action is changed, then the cause of action is also changed accordingly, meaning in my opinion that it would be less than 6 years.

As for the naches defence, the subtle differences in the time limits are pretty much irrespective here.

I too wish Rudy well, however, I do believe the CCA argument is much stronger, whereas this argument is rather risky and I would rather she knew those risks before adding legal expenses.

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