CapitalOne

[Paladine]

OK this has been going on for almost 12 months now and it is starting to seriously annoy me.

 

I have outstanding debt with CapitalOne after returning to University and being unable to meet the monthly payments. As a result CapitalOne have been seriously harassing us on the telephone.

 

They call at different times of the day and night (as late as 10pm) and initially (several months ago) they would ask me for my details etc. I always refused to give my details because they were calling from India and Canada and I simply refuse to give my private details to an overseas call centre as they are not governed by the same laws as we have in the UK. Furthermore, there has been more than one major breach of privacy (call centre staff selling details to 3rd parties) with regards foreign call centres over the past couple of years.

 

I eventually got sick of the foreign call centre calls so I made an official complaint to CapitalOne complaints department telling them to stop calling me. I cited the Telecommunications Act and the Protection from Harassment Act, explaining that once I have told them not to call me they may be in criminal breach of the Acts if they continue to do so. There complaints manager agreed that I would receive no more calls and everything would be handled by post.

 

Unfortunately the calls continued. I contacted the police to try and bring charges against CapitalOne under the Telecommunications Act and the Protection from Harassment Act and the police refused to do anything using the excuse that they could only press charges against an individual not a company.

 

So the calls continued. However, they took a turn for the worse. We have a 2 year old son and as stated they have been calling at all times of the day often in the late evening and many times waking our young child up shortly after he has gone to bed, which is annoying enough. However, now when they call they never say -anything-, after a couple of seconds the call simply hangs up. At its peak this harassment has been as many as 12 calls in a single day and averages around 35 calls a week, and every single one has hung up within seconds of me answering the phone without saying anything. 1471 confirms it was CapitalOne.

 

I purchased the service from BT which allows you to block numbers, unfortunately it only has a list of 10 numbers, within days of setting it up CapitalOne were calling from so many different numbers it was impossible for me to block them, so I cancelled the service with BT as it was basically useless.

 

I have multiple witnesses to this harassment who are willing to confirm the situation in court as well as several weeks worth of call logs.

 

Now they have brought Debitas on board who joined in on the harassment. I have told them 3 times now that I am formally requesting under the Telecommunications Act and the Protection from Harassment Act not to call me, and they just refuse to comply. But to make matters worse, now they are doing the trick of calling then hanging up within seconds of me answering the phone without saying anything. It has happened 3 times today alone.

 

I suspect what is happening is their dialling computer for their call centre (both CapitalOne and Debitas) is just dialling numbers all the time and if an agent is available when it gets through, it connects the call, if not it hangs up; but that is just my guess as to why this is happening.

 

My other concern is, when I signed up with CapitalOne I explicitly told them I did not want my details passed on to -any- third parties. I got a letter from CapitalOne on 7th Jan saying I had 23 days to pay before they would pursue other options, so why are Debitas calling me after less than a week? But more importantly, by giving my data to Debitas (including my home phone and cell phone) are CapitalOne not in breach of the Data Protection Act? I haven't been able to find any exemption in the Act for companies selling debts so I don't understand how this is legal.

 

I don't know what to do, I am at my wits end, they are driving me and family nuts and the police refuse to act. What is the point of having anti harassment legislation if it is unenforceable?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Alexander Hanff

[sosumi]

Hi Paladine,

 

Had a letter from them myself today - but nothing like what you've been going through.

BT can change your number to x-directory as a free service. If you haven't tried that it may be an option? Hopefully someone else will have other suggestions.

[Paladine]

Wow I feel naive now. I never knew that the debt may not even be enforceable. I am pretty sure I applied for my credit card online with Capital One although it was some time ago so I am not certain.

 

So now I should write a letter to Debitas quoting s123 of CCA requesting they send me a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement? Has anyone had any success with this and CapitalOne in the past? I presume they have changed their paperwork now to make sure it doesn't fall foul of the CCA? I got my credit card from them in 2005 so if anyone else has had any success with the debt being unenforceable who got their credit card from CapitalOne around the same time I would be very interested to find out what you did.

 

I guess I have a lot of reading to do.

 

If anyone else has any more thoughts on the harassment we have been receiving I would very much like to read them.

 

Thanks

 

Alexander Hanff

[Docman]

There are 2 options I can suggest:

1. When the computer calls, wait until the agent comes on line, explain you are recording the call (white lie maybe) and ask the agent to repeat their name and that they work for Crap1. Get them to acknowledge the time and date of the call. Then refuse to answer any of their 'security' questions, politely say goodbye and put the phone down. DO NOT GET ANGRY AND PUT THE PHONE DOWN REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY SAY.

 

2. If they continue with the calls, then you can always sue Crap1 for damages in civil court. There was an example of a lady doing so last year - I think it was the Halifax/HBOS but they settled before being torn apart in court. However, you will need evidence of the harassment. You must keep a log of ongoing calls. That's where the log of calls will be useful. You could also send a SAR to Crap1 with £10. Make sure you ask for a listing of all calls.

[Paladine]

There are 2 options I can suggest:

1. When the computer calls, wait until the agent comes on line, explain you are recording the call (white lie maybe) and ask the agent to repeat their name and that they work for Crap1. Get them to acknowledge the time and date of the call. Then refuse to answer any of their 'security' questions, politely say goodbye and put the phone down. DO NOT GET ANGRY AND PUT THE PHONE DOWN REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY SAY.

 

2. If they continue with the calls, then you can always sue Crap1 for damages in civil court. There was an example of a lady doing so last year - I think it was the Halifax/HBOS but they settled before being torn apart in court. However, you will need evidence of the harassment. You must keep a log of ongoing calls. That's where the log of calls will be useful. You could also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Crap1 with £10. Make sure you ask for a listing of all calls.

 

In response to your number 1. An agent never comes on the line, literally a couple of seconds pass and there is a click, the call is disconnected.

 

Alexander Hanff

[Paladine]

Another question I would like to raise is this. I took out payment protection when I got the card and after losing my job due to illness (I have Ledderhose Disease which basically means I have non cancerous tumas in my feet making it very difficult for me to walk or stand for even short periods of time) I phoned the department. Every time I phoned I got put through to voice mail and every time I left a message asking them to send me a claim form. None have ever arrived.

 

Furthermore, despite my card being over its credit limit, CapitalOne are still honouring the payment protection payments (thus putting me in more debt). Is this legal? Surely if my card is over the agreed limit they should not be honouring that payment? Is it possible that by honouring that payment they are by action extending my credit limit without authorisation from me thus making the contract in some way void?

 

I am clutching at straws here but they really are driving me insane.

 

Alexander Hanff

[Paladine]

Sorry to be a pain but does no-one know what I can do about this harassment situation?

 

Thanks

 

Alexander Hanff

[Tau]

Just a thought,

Why not ask BT for a new number. It can be changed pretty quick from what I undestand. Its gonna be a Royal pain in the a$$ but may give you some peace.

[Silky444]

Another question I would like to raise is this. I took out payment protection when I got the card and after losing my job due to illness (I have Ledderhose Disease which basically means I have non cancerous tumas in my feet making it very difficult for me to walk or stand for even short periods of time) I phoned the department. Every time I phoned I got put through to voice mail and every time I left a message asking them to send me a claim form. None have ever arrived.

 

Furthermore, despite my card being over its credit limit, CapitalOne are still honouring the payment protection payments (thus putting me in more debt). Is this legal? Surely if my card is over the agreed limit they should not be honouring that payment? Is it possible that by honouring that payment they are by action extending my credit limit without authorisation from me thus making the contract in some way void?

 

I am clutching at straws here but they really are driving me insane.

 

Alexander Hanff

 

There quick to offer you this service when you call and activate your card

but when you need to make a claim they don't want to hear it.

 

Did you tell them about your uncurable illness when they asked you when you activated the card?

 

If i can remember they do say that illness's that you have or that you are wear of when you take out the card are excluded from the protection.

[Silky444]

Another question I would like to raise is this. I took out payment protection when I got the card and after losing my job due to illness (I have Ledderhose Disease which basically means I have non cancerous tumas in my feet making it very difficult for me to walk or stand for even short periods of time) I phoned the department. Every time I phoned I got put through to voice mail and every time I left a message asking them to send me a claim form. None have ever arrived.

 

Furthermore, despite my card being over its credit limit, CapitalOne are still honouring the payment protection payments (thus putting me in more debt). Is this legal? Surely if my card is over the agreed limit they should not be honouring that payment? Is it possible that by honouring that payment they are by action extending my credit limit without authorisation from me thus making the contract in some way void?

 

I am clutching at straws here but they really are driving me insane.

 

Alexander Hanff

 

There quick to offer you this service when you call and activate your card

but when you need to make a claim they don't want to hear it.

 

Did you tell them about your uncurable illness when they asked you when you activated the card?

 

If i can remember right they do say that illness's that you have or that you are awear of when you take out the credit agreement and/or when you phone them to activate the card is excluded from the protection.

 

John x

[Paladine]

Just a thought,

Why not ask BT for a new number. It can be changed pretty quick from what I undestand. Its gonna be a Royal pain in the a$$ but may give you some peace.

 

I had considered it but I think it would cause a number of problems. Firstly, I suspect it would mess up my ADSL since that is based on phone number. Secondly I am in the process of switching to an LLU provider which means BT won't be in control of my line for much longer anyway.

 

Also I have a lot of friends and family spread around the world, some of which I don't have a current phone number for, so if we changed our number it would be difficult for them to get back in touch in the future.

 

Finally, I shouldn't have to put my family and all our friends to such inconvenience just to avoid harassment which I am supposed to be protected from by law.

 

Alexander Hanff

[Paladine]

We had another call earlier after 10pm. I swear I am gonna lose it soon if this doesn't stop and someone is gonna get hurt. Setting up an asterisk server in the next week (once my card arrives) so I can log/record all their calls now had enough time to put the gloves on.

 

Been up all night cos I can't sleep I just want to rip someone's head off. Keep an eye on the news if this continues over the weekend I might be on it after I lose my rag and drive down there.

 

Alexander Hanff

[Windywoo]

Hi Paladine,

I suffered the same harrassment from these bunch of muppets. They were calling umpteen times a day, all from different numbers. I had call barring, and caller display, in the end it got down to about one number, obviously we never answered the phone to them! And, yes, I sent the harrassment letter too, they didn't seem to think it applied!!

 

I CCA'd them, they sent the usual application form, seperate T&Cs, they sold the account to Cabot. In the meantime, I claimed back nearly £600 worth of charges, which meant the default notice was invalid!! This was six months ago, haven't heard a word from Cabot re account, and nothing from Cap One!!

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel with these lot, you will be in for a fight though!!

[Paladine]

Hi Paladine,

I suffered the same harrassment from these bunch of muppets. They were calling umpteen times a day, all from different numbers. I had call barring, and caller display, in the end it got down to about one number, obviously we never answered the phone to them! And, yes, I sent the harrassment letter too, they didn't seem to think it applied!!

 

I CCA'd them, they sent the usual application form, seperate T&Cs, they sold the account to Cabot. In the meantime, I claimed back nearly £600 worth of charges, which meant the default notice was invalid!! This was six months ago, haven't heard a word from Cabot re account, and nothing from Cap One!!

 

There is light at the end of the tunnel with these lot, you will be in for a fight though!!

 

Finally got to sleep at about 7:30 this morning. Then at 8:30:

 

[ring ring]

"Hello?"

[click]

 

And again at 09:15.

 

I have my final exam of my degree on Monday, looks like I am going to be in good shape for that eh?

 

Alexander Hanff

[chris600uk]

I don't know if this will help or not but here goes:

 

After a quick search the only case law I could find that is remotely relevant is here http://www.freebeagles.org/articles/malicious_calls.html

Huntingdon Life Sciences Ltd and another v Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty and others

[2003] All ER (D) 280 (Jun)

QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION

GIBBS J

20 June 2003

 

Tort – Harassment – Acts constituting harassment – Injunctive relief – Protection from Harassment Act 1997, s 3.

 

Huntingdon Life Sciences Ltd v Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty

[2004] EWHC 1231 (QB), [2004] All ER (D) 396 (May)

 

PRACTICE AND PROCEDURE - SUMMARY JUDGMENT – STRIKING OUT – REASONABLE PROSPECT OF SUCCESS

 

these cases refer to the victim taking out an injunction.

Not the cheapest way to go, but if you record the calls it may be one way.

 

The other would be to print out the page from FreeB.E.A.G.L.E.S. and show the police, they might feel differently then.

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

FreeB.E.A.G.L.E.S.:Malicious Phone Calls

 

Let's try that URL again

 

sorry

 

Chris

[chris600uk]

Have a read of this, it may help when dealing with the police

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/r130.pdf

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

And this

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1C97440D-2990-424B-B560-FD980F20CBD5/0/12901.pdf

 

Because when the police don't want to do something, often it's because they think it's too complicated, has little chance of success, or they just don't know the law.

 

So you have to do your bit mate, collect the evidence and then educate your local law enforcement officer!

 

You know it makes sense:)

 

Chris.

[zazen.warrior]

Alternatively turn the ringer off or just unplug the phone, before I paid out for chose to refuse and anon call reject I did this, and then just cleared out the messages once a day incase there was something I did need to hear amongst them. It still peeved me enough to pay out in the end to block them as far as I can.

[Paladine]

Thanks for the info, to be honest Lancaster Police are known for being absolutely useless. CID here managed to contribute to me losing over £30k (if you check my post history I think I wrote a long post about it on here last year sometime) putting myself and my family in literal poverty.

 

I did happen to get a letter from Trading Standards today regarding a problem I am having with Play.Com under the Trade Description Act (or whatever the particular act is called) and the email address of the officer dealing with it was at the top of the letter. So I have sent him an email now with a more thorough explanation of the Play.Com situation and then at the end I added the following paragraph:

 

"I do have another matter which I need to bring to your attention but it does involve significant levels of criminal harassment from the company involved and has been ongoing for 8 months with non stop criminal harassment and a total disregard for British law. I will forward you details as soon as I am able to acquire the equipment to actually record the phone calls me and my family are being subjected to up to 12 times a day as late as 10pm. I do have a sample of call logs and witnesses willing to testify in court but unfortunately the police at Lancaster seem to think that the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Administration of Justice Act 1970 and the Communications Act (2003) s.127 do not apply to companies, only to individuals and thus refuse to press charges. Meanwhile myself, my partner and my 2 year old son are constantly being harassed by the company involved to the point where it is now seriously effecting my health and should really be considered as "cruel and unusual punishment" as covered in the European Convention on Human Rights."

 

Should be interesting to see if I get a response.

 

I can't afford an injunction, I am a full time student in my final year with a dependent adult (disability), 2 year old son and a mortgage. Not to mention being disabled myself.

 

Alexander Hanff

[Paladine]

Alternatively turn the ringer off or just unplug the phone, before I paid out for chose to refuse and anon call reject I did this, and then just cleared out the messages once a day incase there was something I did need to hear amongst them. It still peeved me enough to pay out in the end to block them as far as I can.

 

That simply isn't a suitable solution. I cannot be expected to cut my family off from the entire world just to avoid being harassed. Furthermore my partners mother is ill, if something happens she needs to be able to take the call, that can't happen if the phone is turned off.

 

I will not turn my life or my family's life upside down just to avoid criminal actions we are supposed to be protected from by law. It simply is not the answer.

 

That's like saying never leave the house in case you get murdered, it is a ridiculous way to live your life and achieves absolutely nothing.

 

Sorry if I sound a little harsh there but I am at my wits end and have had 1 hour sleep.

 

 

Alexander Hanff

[Brassed off]

I discovered that I could get caller ID for free from BT on my particular plan. It's really great, because I know who's calling and can decide whether I want to take the call or not.

 

Alternatively, you can buy a small box (the name escapes me at the moment) for about £10 which shows the telephone number of who's calling.

 

If you can afford to, why not download Skype from the site?

[sosumi]

Paladine, your first priority right now is to get some sleep. You haven't had any and you have an important exam on Monday.

Is there anywhere you can go, just to sleep? A friend or relative? Do something about this now!

[zazen.warrior]

Paladine, your first priority right now is to get some sleep. You haven't had any and you have an important exam on Monday.

Is there anywhere you can go, just to sleep? A friend or relative? Do something about this now!

 

 

Absolutely, which is why I sugested for now just turn it off, I get very few calls and deal with most things via email so this worked for me for a while but I understand it is not appropriate for your circumstances.

[Paladine]

I discovered that I could get caller ID for free from BT on my particular plan. It's really great, because I know who's calling and can decide whether I want to take the call or not.

 

Alternatively, you can buy a small box (the name escapes me at the moment) for about £10 which shows the telephone number of who's calling.

 

If you can afford to, why not download Skype from the site?

 

I have caller ID so I know when they are ringing already. Skype is not an option here as firstly I am not a Windows user and Skype for 64bit Linux is flakey as best. I just ordered an FXO pci card for my server last night (was only 20 quid delivered) which means I will be able to hook my land line directly up to the computer and use Asterisk to log and record all calls. It also means we will be able to use Asterisk as a voice over IP gateway with our existing DECT phones so in the long term should give us a significant saving.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Alexander Hanff