Bailiffs took tool of trade and now want the car - please advise!

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have two questions I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with:

 

1. Can the bailiffs seize a car that is registered in my husband's name (we are now separated), but is on my address?

 

I received a Notice of Seizure letter through the post box today, giving me 1 day only to pay £2500 for council tax, they've listed the car as the item they will be seizing.

 

Just a brief overview of what the situ really is. I had to resign from work in 2005 and became self-employed as a freelance programmer. I sold off everything I owned to pay off debts etc and became terribly depressed. It was a horrible time, living from hand to mouth - but there was a ray of light, I had two commissions for web sites that I was working on, which would have covered 2-3 months worth of bills. However, the bailiffs turned up claiming unpaid council tax, threatened allsorts to gain entry to my home, and in the end I let them in. There was nothing to take apart from the laptop - I told them I needed it to work, but they took it anyway. I went to the CAB, who then contacted the Bailiff's manager about the illegal seizure of my "tool of trade". I was assured that I would be given access to my laptop to remove all the data I needed from it, but that they wouldn't be returning the laptop. However, when I went to get access to the laptop, they told me it had been sold in the previous week.

 

Since then, my life has turned to a living hell. I was hospitalised for months due to severe depression resulting in complications with my pregnancy. My son was born prematurely and almost died due to my illness. With much support and help from community support, I'm back home now with my two children. I've spoken to my local MP about the seizure of my laptop and it's contents and how since then I've not been able to work at all, or generate any money and have now had to claim income support for the first time in my life. He pretty much said what the bailiffs have done is illegal, but now it's already happened, it would be difficult to claim anything back.

 

Today I've received a letter saying I would be getting council tax benefit for 2006-2007, at the same time the bailiffs left a notice saying they would take my car. It's not my car - I didn't pay for it. It's registered to the father of my children but at my address. He paid for it, and it's his. He also pays my insurance on it, so I can take my kids to my parents when I have to attend hospital etc.

 

Given the car is not in my name, but at my address - can the bailiffs take it away? The car has never been in my name.

 

I notified my MP and he is trying to help sort this out, he was given assurances that until the matter with the laptop and council tax benefit had been resolved, the bailiffs would be kept at bay. Today, my MP tells me that it looks like he was lied to - which doesn't surprise me at all.

 

All correspondence sent to the bailiffs about my laptop being sold were ignored. Effectively the bailiffs lied to the CAB, used false legislation to gain entry to my house, they actually brought round 4 guys, one was a lock smith who was starting to cut away at my door (which is why I let them in originially). Sorry - I'm going on a bit now. I'm so upset and really scared now. They took my only means of earning money and then are charging me thousands of pounds for it.

 

Please someone help!

[Saffronflowers]

Firstly a huge hug - It will take time but we can help you to sort this out.

 

No they should not have taken your laptop if it is the means of earning your living.

 

No they cannot take the car if it is registered to your ex husband do you hve a good relationship with him, in so much could you get a copy of the certificate of ownership.

 

Thirdly - could you please tell me exactly what happened when they came to your house with the locksmith.

 

Which council is it and which company not the actual bailiffs name?

 

There are some very very serious issues here.

 

I have to go out for 45 mins but will pop back when I get back in.

 

In the mean time hopefully Tomtubby will fly by and give you some further advice.

 

SFx

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Oh thank you so much for replying and thanks for the much needed hug

 

I can't tell you what it means to me to have support in these issues, online or otherwise! It's been such a struggle since they took my laptop.

 

Okay here are the answers to your questions:

 

1. I have the green registration certificate from the DVLA - is that the certificate of ownership you referred to?

 

2. This was in October 2006. The bailiff Mr X, turned up a week before and issued a WPA, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to let him in. I had pretty much sold everything anyway, so my house was practically empty - nothing of value except the fridge freezer. This is what he listed on the WP, I told him that I was being treated for depression, and that I needed to calim council tax benefit, just that I had not been in a fit state to do anything (I had just come out of hospital). I rang up the council in that week several times, and they said that I wasn't elliglble for council tax benefit. So a week later he came round, with four guys, and started shouting things out very loudly in the street. They banged on the door and started cutting their way through, so I opened it. The only thing of value was my laptop - which they took. They left the fridge. I did tell them the value of the laptop - in excess of £4000 for the hardware and several large databases and software worth at least £50,000, not to mention my life's work on it which has no proce tag for me.

 

After going to the CAB, I realised I shouldn't have let them in in the first place, I guess that's why they were cutting away at the door on their second visit.

 

The council is Merton Council and the bailiffs are from Merton Bailiffs services - there is no other name on the documents. It's the same bailiff who took my laptop though. There's a squiggle for a signature on the notice, there's no name, but I do know who it is. The MP also has Mr X's details and Mr X's bosses details, but they are not taking his calls.

 

My worry is that they must have checked the car doesn't belong to me, but they are going to take it away anyway. What do I need to do to stop this?

 

Basically, my MP is trying to get the council to take some money from my income support to pay off my council tax until I can a job. I've been applying, and have interviews lined up next week - (the history of depressions tends to put employers off though . Without the car, I'll be in a terrible position, I need it to drop the children off and get to these interviews.

 

DevastedButHopefull

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Sorry, forgot to say that I am now elligible for council tax benefit - which affects the bill that the bailiffs are try to recover. However, as I understand it, they are not going to wait for a new bill to be issued to me, they will attempt to seize my car anyway.

 

After they took my laptop, I became so poor, the salvation army had to provide food parcels for me and my children. I almost lost my house and had to re-mortgage to stop from being evicted. I originally thought that it would be a simple process (albeit long) process to claim compensation for my laptop, which led to me losing so much, but I now find this isn't the case.

[Saffronflowers]

Oh you poor thing this is totally dreadful

 

I have PM'ed you

 

SFx

[Brandie911]

I feel your pain and panic, have had my fair share of bailiffs on my door step, luckily I phoned cab while he was stood outside and was told under no circumstances to let him in! You are now in the right place as this forum has a vast amount of knowledge and people to help you through this nightmare. I eventually had my council tax debt returned to the council who I made payment arrangements with, but for a while it was a nightmare dodging the bailiffs, as they wouldn't accept payment arrangements and wanted it all in full! Try to keep your chin up m8!

[chris600uk]

My worry is that they must have checked the car doesn't belong to me, but they are going to take it away anyway. What do I need to do to stop this?

 

It's unlikely that they've bothered checking anything - because they do have a right to assume you own items on your premises unless you've proved otherwise.

 

I have done this with a Statutory Declaration - £5 approx if you type it yourself and swear it in front of a Solicitor or Commissioner for Oaths.

It would be best if your Ex did this for you, effectively claiming the car back.

 

DRAFT STATUTORY DECLARATION

 

 

 

 

To: Rxxxxxxxxxs, Hxxxxxn Mill, xxx xxxx xxx Road, Rxxxxxxxxxl, Rxxxxxdale, Lancashire, xxx xxx

 

 

I (my full name)

 

of (my full address)

 

Do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

 

I have am not now and have never been at any time the Registered Keeper or Owner of the Blue Ford Focus vehicle registration mark XXXXXXX.

 

And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 and Section 5 of The Perjury Act 1911.

 

 

Signature:

 

 

Declared at: (office address)

 

On the.......... day of ...............two thousand and..........

 

Before me: (the solicitor or commissioners name)

 

A Commissioner for Oaths, or Notary Public/Justice of the Peace/Solicitor having the powers conferred on a Commissioner for Oaths.

 

 

There may be others with better or different suggestions, but it worked for me.

 

Chris.

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for this. So is the registration certificate not enough evidence as proof of ownership? The reg cert also has the previous owners listed on it, and shows that I was never an owner, and have not just transferred the car to get out of trouble..

 

thanks

DbH

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hi Brandie911,

 

Thanks for replying, it's been such a great help reading the replies. I hope that the council will take back the bill, but it's looking like it's going to be a long haul before they do. Ever hopeful though!

[chris600uk]

 

So is the registration certificate not enough evidence as proof of ownership?

 

It's not that, the onus is upon you the debtor to show that property on your premises don't belong to you or are exempt goods.

 

So if the vehicle doesn't belong to you, you have to tell 'em!

 

Then the onus is on them, because the defence of "mistake in law" can't be used, and I believe they would be guilty of TWOC if they removed or seized a vehicle that was hired, on HP, or the property of a third party.

 

Chris.

[chris600uk]

No they should not have taken your laptop if it is the means of earning your living.

 

What a nightmare!

I agree with SFx, you need advice from someone like tomtubby on this.

 

But you also need to read some of the previous posts, I know it's not easy and can even be boring, but it will make a huge difference to your confidence.

 

All I can say is, start writing to them demanding information, there are lots of template letters and you can copy and paste them from previous posts.

 

Chris.

[sillygirl1]

Mertons Bailiff service is called MC2 - I have their address if you want it. They are really nasty and don't take any notice of anyone - personal experience here unfortunately.

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hi Sillygirl1,

 

What's MC2? I did write to the head of the baillifs dept when they took my laptop - detailing everything that happened and what was said, but they never replied, the same letter I cc'd to the CAB. Did you get any joy in the end with your dealings with them?

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hi Chris,

 

Having had several lenghty chats with SF, I'm going to get myself well prepared for the oncoming battle with the bailiffs. You're right, I need more confidence in this matter. Reading the previous posts and speaking to people who have won their battles with the bailiffs, is giving me the hope and strength to fight for my rights.

[sillygirl1]

Its MC2P (Merton Councils Collection Services) and no, I didn't have any joy with them directly though indirectly I have given them a lot of grief by informing all and sundry of their CORRECT rights as far as their orange letters go.

 

Most people I have helped have now paid Merton Council via their website or payment tills and have NOT paid the bailiffs their fake "We called but please fill in this WPA and return" notes.

[Tau]

Im just thinking out loud here,

Would it be worth sending a S.A.R to the bailiff company. to find out how much the laptop was sold for, or would this not show up. Also asking for a statement of account.

 

You will also need to find out if the bailiff was certified as well.

Tomtubby will be able to do this for you if you PM her the name of the bailiff. Please do not post the name on the open forum.

[Tau]

The only problem with the SAR is that it costs a tenner

[chris600uk]

And they've got 40 days to reply.

 

This is what I would do (have done).

 

I would take the Bailiffs name and ring the Central Database on 0207 210 0431 or 0207 210 0516 and ask if he/she actually had a certificate in force at the time the laptop was taken.

If not, then AFAIK a criminal offence was probably committed, fraud I think.

If yes then all it cost was a phone call to London, and they are very nice and very helpful.

Of course if tomtubby becomes involved you could probably get the answer much quicker.

 

Then write to the bailiffs and ask them for details of the bailiff who took the laptop, details of his certificate and the court that granted it.

Send it recorded delivery, keep paper copies of everything including the electronic proof of posting.

 

Don't forget to do your Statutory Declaration first thing in the morning and send a copy of that recorded dely as well.

 

Try to get hold of a small dictaphone or tape recorder and try to record any conversation you have with the bailiffs if they call.

 

keep your cool, speak firmly and raise your voice, don't let them talk over you, recite the law, keep it simple, don't say anything you aren't sure of, let them know that everything they say is being recorded.

 

You need and deserve a bit of luck now,

 

 

Chris.

[DevastatedButHopefull]

I've also just found out that I should have had a 25% discount on my council tax bill - I thought I was in receipt of that as I had informed them that I was a lone parent - but no they hadn't included that in my bill. This also means that the bills that the bailiffs have already levied on (my laptop), were incorrect in the first place .

 

From what I've gathered, my £4k laptop was sold for next to nothing, which is why the bailiffs are coming round again (in addition to last years Council tax bill which I couldn't pay as they had taken my laptop and I hadn't applied for benefits)

 

Actually, that was another thing I wanted to ask. On the council tax benefit letter I received today, they state that they couldn't back date to 2005, however, they offer me the right to question that decision. Given the fact that I was catatonic for most of 2005/6 (due to depression and hospitalisation, and couldn't do anything for myself at the time) would it be worth writing to the c.tax dept and supplying all my medical documents? They don't backdate more than 52 weeks I'm told.

 

Any thoughts?

 

and thanks guys!

[chris600uk]

"On the council tax benefit letter I received today, they state that they couldn't back date to 2005"

 

Well that depends on why you want them to backdate a claim.

If you were in receipt of Income Support at the time, that could make the difference.

 

"I've also just found out that I should have had a 25% discount on my council tax bill"

You could write to the bailiffs and dispute the debt, telling them to stop any further action until you've sorted it out with the council. It may not work but at least you will have started to shower them with paperwork=time=cost.

I would also send email copies to the council, your councillor, your MP, the Head of council tax, etc, etc.

 

Hopefully those that know will agree with me,

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

[Saffronflowers]

Morning all - sadly the BA Barracus of a bailiff is in fact certified and has been since Jan 06 therefore no help on that one.

 

From speaking to DBH I have found some majorly glaring issues, that will be raised today. I have passed several of my ideas passed Her Royal Highness Tomtubby!!! to which she has agreed with my plan of action for DBH

 

SFx

[DevastatedButHopefull]

Hi SF,

 

I've just PM'd you ..

 

DBH x

[chris600uk]

Morning all - sadly the BA Barracus of a bailiff is in fact certified and has been since Jan 06 therefore no help on that one.

 

From speaking to DBH I have found some majorly glaring issues, that will be raised today. I have passed several of my ideas passed Her Royal Highness Tomtubby!!! to which she has agreed with my plan of action for DBH

 

SFx

 

Which is?

[Tau]

Its a plan, a cunning plan

[chris600uk]

Watch out, watch out, baldricks about!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grovelling apologies to anyone who was not amused.