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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Managed to get the sist opposed. Judge was brillent as she done all the work for me. The cockyness that i had the night before soon went when i found i was up against a QC.

 

Thanks to the govan law center and everybody on these pages as well.

 

I have a prelimianry hearing next week.

 

Any advice or help again, would be much welcome.

 

Thanks again

 

Neil

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Superb Neil ! Was that at Edinburgh Sheriff Court ?

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

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Well done Neil :D

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Neil, what did the sheriff give as the reason for not granting the sists?

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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To tell you the truth, i got a little lost in all the legal mumbo jumbo between the judge and their QC.

 

 

But the basic reasons which she seemed to accept were about the english courts not binding on scottish courts.

 

Also, she asked me if i would accept the verdict of the english court on the OFT ruling if it went in favour of the banks in which i said "no".

 

I also argued, and she agreed, that not allowing the sist would not take up court time.

 

I got a lot of my submissions from the Govan Law Center on opposing the sist which was of great help.

 

At the end of my submissions i handed her the copy of the Invernes case from judge Plye, also from the GLC website. When their QC wanted time to look at it and set another date, i then decided to withdraw it as i really couldn't afford to take another day off work

 

Hope that helps

 

Neil

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Hi Guys

 

Still got a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

 

1. What the hell do i take, say or do at a preliminary hearing?

 

2. I was reading the previous posts about splitting the claim in two at the small claims court. (That was what i was intending to do: £750 1st claim then £750 2nd claim. I got the idear from Moneysavingexpert. )

 

Howerver, i can see that if the bank offers me the "full and final settelment" i can't claim again.

 

3. What if i told the bank i will only accept on my terms ie, without the "full and final settlement" part.

 

4. Or what if i win in court, surley i'm then, able to claim for the 2nd part of my claim: as i have successfullly won in court?, with no strings from the bank attached.

 

Thanks again

 

Neil

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Still got a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

 

1. What the hell do i take, say or do at a preliminary hearing?

 

Have you a date for this?

 

2. I was reading the previous posts about splitting the claim in two at the small claims court. (That was what i was intending to do: £750 1st claim then £750 2nd claim. I got the idear from Moneysavingexpert. )

 

I done this back in the early days amongst a few others and this action was seen as an abuse of the courts time, you should claim the total due at that time. Are you aware the small claims goes up to £3000 in Jan 08.

 

Howerver, i can see that if the bank offers me the "full and final settelment" i can't claim again.

 

Actually you can if you dont accept their terms of the settlement, when you sign their acceptance you could remove FULL AND FINAL and replace with PARTIAL settlement, as long as you dont actually appear in court you could bring a second claim using "Res Judicata" If you go to court and you win then any other action brought by you after that may be in danger of being thrown out, CB have done this.

 

3. What if i told the bank i will only accept on my terms ie, without the "full and final settlement" part.

Answered

 

4. Or what if i win in court, surley i'm then able to claim for the 2nd part of my claim as i have successfullly in court? No strings from the bank attached.

 

Answered however this is not a straight forward YES or NO. Which bank is this?

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Hi, Neil.

 

I split my first two claims and got away with it. A lot of courts started throwing out more than one claim from the same account. HBOS did not mention a 'Full and Final' with my first claim, so I went Summary Cause with my second. They then had no contact with me what so ever and paid my second claim into the account they had 'closed' after my first claim. They then re-opened it, so I could withdraw my cash.

There's a thread here that should help you............

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/scotland/117078-please-help-court-hearing.html?highlight=prelimery+hearing+in+scotland

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Hi,

 

Thought it was HBOS at Edinburgh Sheriff Court.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Sorry, It is Abbey.........:confused:

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Still got a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

 

1. What the hell do i take, say or do at a preliminary hearing?

 

Have you a date for this?

 

2. I was reading the previous posts about splitting the claim in two at the small claims court. (That was what i was intending to do: £750 1st claim then £750 2nd claim. I got the idear from Moneysavingexpert. )

 

I done this back in the early days amongst a few others and this action was seen as an abuse of the courts time, you should claim the total due at that time. Are you aware the small claims goes up to £3000 in Jan 08.

 

Howerver, i can see that if the bank offers me the "full and final settelment" i can't claim again.

 

Actually you can if you dont accept their terms of the settlement, when you sign their acceptance you could remove FULL AND FINAL and replace with PARTIAL settlement, as long as you dont actually appear in court you could bring a second claim using "Res Judicata" If you go to court and you win then any other action brought by you after that may be in danger of being thrown out, CB have done this.

 

3. What if i told the bank i will only accept on my terms ie, without the "full and final settlement" part.

Answered

 

4. Or what if i win in court, surley i'm then able to claim for the 2nd part of my claim as i have successfullly in court? No strings from the bank attached.

 

Answered however this is not a straight forward YES or NO. Which bank is this?

 

 

Thanks mate.

 

The date is next week

 

I'm aware the small claims goes up next year. Sods law that i started it before they changed the rule!

 

It's the Abbey.

 

Thanks again Bigmac:grin:

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At the preliminary hearing the sheriff will only decide if all reasonable steps have been taken before the court action in order to come to an agreement between the Defender and the Pursuer. If the sheriff is satisfied that this is the case then a proof hearing date will be set. The proof hearing is the hearing for the presentation of evidence. Usually the date for this is about 2 months after the preliminary hearing.

  • Haha 1

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Thanks to one and all for your help guys.

 

Was back in court today for the preliminary hearing. The banks Qc asked for a sist to be granted again and this time the sheriff went along with his request.

 

Amazing what a difference a week can make.

 

 

Neil.

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Hi mate

 

It was a different Sheriff. He said that reasonable grounds had been put forward to grant the sist and he was proctecting me from losing a complicated case financiallly.

 

Wish i had said a bit more now, but wasn't really expecting to have to argue about a sist again.

 

Neil

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Damn. There was a similar incident in Glasgow last month, I got in late and didn't discover if a QC was arguing the toss, but the female sheriff (whom I understood has already denied the sist at the preliminary hearing) got really snippy with the bank, saying she had already ruled that the sist was denied so was there any new information they wished to impart? The answer was in the negative, and when the Sheriff said the case could proceed, the bank's legal rep said that in that case he would have to seek further instruction and asked for (and got) a postponement.

 

I don't know what happened in the end, but a shame you were given the 'financial' argument (ie warning you off) when your exposure is capped in the Small Claims track.

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There appears to be absolutely NO uniformity in our legal system. Why does't one sheriff take direction from what the majority seem to be ruling. Does neilnicky have the right to appeal against that second ruling given that the first sheriff ruled against the sist? maybe on the grounds that a court ruling had been reached so Neilnicky wasn't allowed time to prepare for this second case: if the banks can ask for more time to take instruction, surely neilnicky can?

 

Anyway, if the banks could request a sist a second time, can Neilnicky not ask it be removed on a third occasion? Seems the only just way to me.

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