How safe is my Tenancy ?

[45002]

Hi Everyone

 

Im from the west midlands and 50 years old now and a disabled person

 

I been living in my flat now for near 25 years which is part of a old victorian house.

 

My rent is regulated by the 1977 Rent act The Rent Service (TRS) - impartial, professional, rental valuation services in England and i never signed any tenancy agreement i never been offered one, all i have is one of those little green rent book you get from a local newsagent.

 

My landlord told me back 2006 that is was going to sell up and wanted everyone out,at the time i told him i was a sitting tenant which he found very funny and said its my house i can do what i like and you will have to go.

 

Anyway there no loved lost between me and my landlord,i contacted my Local council private tenants dept who advised me that my landlord would have to sell the house with me in it.

 

The house went on the market in spring this year and once the For sale sign went up loads of people kept coming around to view the house about 30 people came around in total and all of them expect one person, where not intrested in buying the house with a sitting tenant in it.

 

The person who was intrested in buying the house agreed to keep me on,but to cut a long story short that sale fell through.

 

All this was around spring time early on in the year,but not untill December 07 i found out the sale had fell through.

 

At the start of December my landlord told me the house was going on the market again and it was at this time i told my landlord, if estate agents,surveyors,and and one who wish to view my flat,my landlord must give me 48 hours or more notice someone wants to view my flat.

 

My landlord turned around to me and said its my house and i will arrange dates and times to suite him and not me,i told him unless he gives me advance notice,No one will be coming into my flat.

 

Estate agents,surveyors and buyers have been around the house in the past 4 weeks or so,but have not been able to get into my flat as my landlord has not givern me any sort of notice of there vist.

 

I then contacted Community Legal Advice who also advised me that the house would have to be sold with me in it,they also advised me my landlord may or may not be able to get a court injunction forcing me to show people around my flat,but givern my landlord is not even adivising when people are coming around a court injunction is unlikely.

 

Im now wondering who is going to buy a large victorian house,with one sitting tenant ME,my rent is £55.00 pound a week,my landlord or any new landlord has to bear the cost of the council tax and water rates due to what the rent office has stated in the rent register.

 

Im just worried now my landlord or any new landlord would start a Dirty tricks campaign to get me out ? thats if the house is ever sold with the housing market going down the pan fast.

 

I do hope you all can understand me and lookforward to hearing from you

 

MARTIN

Edited July 20, 2010 by 45002

[MrShed]

Fairly short answer. Rent Act tenants have extremely high security of tenure. Indeed it would be very unusual for a tenant to be evicted unless he had done something VERY wrong - which needless to say, you havent. You have nothing to worry about with regards your tenancy. I would start documenting everything to do with the situation as of now, as any "dirty tricks" campaign as you call it, could well constitute unlawful eviction and/or harrassment, both of which are serious offences.

 

As a point of note, houses with sitting tenants, as a rule of thumb, generally get around 50% of full market value.

[45002]

Fairly short answer. Rent Act tenants have extremely high security of tenure. Indeed it would be very unusual for a tenant to be evicted unless he had done something VERY wrong - which needless to say, you havent. You have nothing to worry about with regards your tenancy. I would start documenting everything to do with the situation as of now, as any "dirty tricks" campaign as you call it, could well constitute unlawful eviction and/or harrassment, both of which are serious offences.

 

As a point of note, houses with sitting tenants, as a rule of thumb, generally get around 50% of full market value.

 

MrShed,thankyou for the reply and a very happy 2008 to you

 

Since my landlord told me he was selling up back in 2006,i been documenting everthink that has been going on since just incase ?

 

Problem with my current landlord he and his wife never tell me anythink

 

Give you a example when the houses in multiple Occupation (HMOs) licencing came into force,all hell broke out,my landlord wanted to come around and throw out my furniture out as he was saying it did not come up to HMO standards,i told him after seeking advice that HMO only applied to Landlords furniture,but no he wouldnt have that and said he would come and kick my door down and throw it out.

 

After contacting Private tenancy dept at my Local council "again" he had to back down.

 

We all use to get on so well at one time,when he cant his way, he blows up at you saying its my house i can do what the bloody hell i like in it.

 

Did find out once from the tenant downstairs told me,that when he went shopping he came back to find a note inside his flat saying.

 

Please could you open your curtains open dueing the daytime and leave your windows open

This is no joke,glad he not got keys to my flat

 

As a point of note, houses with sitting tenants, as a rule of thumb, generally get around 50% of full market value.

Does make me wonder will he ever be able to sell the house with me and my neigborough in it ?

 

MARTIN

[MrShed]

He WILL be able to sell it, it just depends on how much he is willing to sell it for

 

Put it this way, I would be amazed if the property gets more than 60% of full market value. In some ways, it actually comes down to a lot more than just the security of your tenancy. It is fairly common for landlords with sitting tenants wishing to sell, to offer the tenants a payoff to relinquish their rights, as sitting tenants do have such strong rights. These payoffs are quite commonly 5 figure sums.

[45002]

He WILL be able to sell it, it just depends on how much he is willing to sell it for

 

Put it this way, I would be amazed if the property gets more than 60% of full market value. In some ways, it actually comes down to a lot more than just the security of your tenancy. It is fairly common for landlords with sitting tenants wishing to sell, to offer the tenants a payoff to relinquish their rights, as sitting tenants do have such strong rights. These payoffs are quite commonly 5 figure sums.

 

My landlords name is Mr.Scrooge,I would not go down that path anyway as i would be worse off money wise,i would loose some,most or all of my Housing benefit,and i would also end up paying council tax and water rates,which i do not pay now due to what The rent office states in the rent register.

 

MARTIN

[MrShed]

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Your benefits are dependant upon you, not your property - other than housing benefit, but HB allows up to market value rent, and you will be paying significantly below market rent?

[45002]

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Your benefits are dependant upon you, not your property - other than housing benefit, but HB allows up to market value rent, and you will be paying significantly below market rent?

 

Sorry does this help

 

I do not get Full housing benefit as im on Incapacity benefit just over £100 a week and (disability living allowance which does not count) ,which is way over the income surpport level

 

and to quote The rent Register in my case

 

Tenancy details:

Council Tax borne by Landlord

who ever that may be

 

Ofter rates borne by Landlord

who ever that may be

 

If i moved i would end up paying council tax,and also i would not get Full council tax Benefit, all this was worked out for me by Local CAB,so im better off where im living now

 

MARTIN

[MrShed]

I must admit benefits are not my strong point. However, this does not sit entirely right with me. I would probably have this re-assessed by someone other than CAB(they mean well, but in my experience do not always give the best advice). In particular, your housing benefit entitlement will not change(although your personal contribution may).

 

That said, if you want to sit it out, you are clearly entitled, and you will be on a very cheap rent. I just think that offering to leave for a big cash payout, especially if most of your rent would be covered by HB anyway, is a potentially lucrative option for yourself.

[45002]

I must admit benefits are not my strong point. However, this does not sit entirely right with me. I would probably have this re-assessed by someone other than CAB(they mean well, but in my experience do not always give the best advice). In particular, your housing benefit entitlement will not change(although your personal contribution may).

 

That said, if you want to sit it out, you are clearly entitled, and you will be on a very cheap rent. I just think that offering to leave for a big cash payout, especially if most of your rent would be covered by HB anyway, is a potentially lucrative option for yourself.

 

The income surport rate for single male for me would be £59.15,as my Incapacity benefit just over £100 a week,i do not get Full housing Benefit and i would not Full council tax benefit if i paid council tax,also i Do not get Free NHS prescrption as my money paid to me is offer £59.15.

 

And offering to leave for a big cash payout,i would have to declare this money to Housing benefit dept and depending on how much the cash payout was, it would reduce or even stop my Housing benefit all together.

 

The more savings i have the lower the amount of HB i would get or non at all

DWP - Services and benefits - Housing Benefit

 

MARTIN

[45002]

Bump

 

Just to let you know that my LL is still trying to sell,a few things a have found out talking to my neighours who are a sourse of information as my LL tells them everythink and as i dont talk to my LL anymore.

 

Its seams the latest sale fell through as the people who where buying could not get a mortage because of the fact there is a sitting/regulated tenant me and if ever the mortage company had to repossess the house,they would have to take me on in my flat and my tenancy.

 

This is a new one on me,any ideas

 

Another sticking point,im not letting the estate agents show potenial buyers around look around my flat,which doesn't go down well with my LL,but there again thats my LL fault for arranging times to suit him and not me.

 

Good job he not got keys to my flat

 

Makes me wonder how anyone can apply for a mortage when they not even look around my flat.

 

Puzzed

 

MARTIN

[MrShed]

It is quite possible that a mortgage will be difficult to obtain with a Rent Act tenant in situ.

[Webranger]

No chance whatsoever of a mortgage being offered to a buyer with you there. Only a cash buyer is possible. Which means that LL needs to get the place fully tenanted again as sell it as an HMO.

 

The LL sounds like an unpleasant character but one has to feel rather sorry for him at the same time.Taking £55pw and paying council tax and water rates, he's making a loss. He wants to sell but can't because you are there and he can't get you out.

 

He MUST give you 24 hours notice of people viewing, but you MUST then agree providing it is at a reasonable hour. By refusing you are giving him the one chance of taking action against you.

[45002]

Whoops

Edited March 9, 2010 by 45002

[45002]

Thank you for the replies

 

Just to point out at one time there where 4 tennants when LL they decide to sell up,two moved out,so there just me and a tennant down stairs who has only been there since 2001.

 

The problem is when my LL wanted to sell up,he was under the impression we would all have to move out and thats thats.

 

When my LL found out i did not have to move out and he would have to sell the property with me in,my LL decided not ask the tennant down stairs not to move out and sell it a business.

 

Its my LL own fault he ask the over 2 tennants to move out when he was advised that he could have sold the property with 4 tennants and as a business. OK the price of the house would have been lower,but at least he would have still had 4 rents still coming in and not just 2 like my LL has now.

 

By refusing you are giving him the one chance of taking action against you

What Action ? legal adivce i have had from a solicitor and private tenancy dept of my local council have both told me that i Do not have to show any estate agent or buyer around even if my LL has given me 24-48 hours notice.

 

I do how ever let my landlord in to do any repairs,gas-electric safety inspection by qualified persons and inspection by the local council.

 

My rent has always been up to date,i keep my flat clean and tidy to the best of my ability and my LL has said in the past im one of the quietest tennant living there

 

So what action can my LL take against me for not showing around estate agents or buyer's !

[45002]

A few more points,since i 1st posted in Dec 2007 i have found out that my LL was trying to sell the house long before he told me, about summer of 2005 my LL ask to show 3 people around and told me it was people from the council to do the a HMO inspection.

 

At the time i had no reason to doubt my LL who these people where and then we where still taking face to face,i later found out they one was a estate agents and 2 where buyer's,the fact my LL lied to me about who theses people where made me hopping mad.

 

All communications with my LL are now in writing only.

 

The tennant down stairs has told me,there have been more people my LL has showed around,but i have not been in and this was before Dec 2007.

 

Good job my LL not got keys to my flat.

 

(Just to point out the tennant down stairs has also sort legal adivce on what his legal writes are)

 

Then in Oct 2008 i found out about this, read on

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/163351-regulated-tenancy-planning-permission.html

 

So im not a happy person when it comes to my LL and wanting to show people around my flat

[MrShed]

So what action can my LL take against me for not showing around estate agents or buyer's !

 

In theory, a court order could be obtained to force access to the property for viewing purposes.

 

Moreover, there is the potential for a civil claim for damages incurred due to the lack of access.

 

The latter is highly unlikely, but the former is very likely to succeed IMO.

[45002]

In theory, a court order could be obtained to force access to the property for viewing purposes.

 

Moreover, there is the potential for a civil claim for damages incurred due to the lack of access.

 

The latter is highly unlikely, but the former is very likely to succeed IMO.

 

 

Thanks again Mr Shed for your reply.

 

Thats was a point the solicitor told me some years ago that my LL could get a injunction forcing me to show estate agents and buyer's around.

 

But the private tenancy dept of my local council disagreed with what the solicitor had said and said it would be highly unlike my LL would get a injunction forcing me to show estate agents and buyer's around on the grounds it would breach my right to privacy and so on.

 

As for my LL spending money getting a court injunction will never happern,my LL name is Mr Scrooge,Never spends any money if he can help it

 

Looking back at my notes, i stopped showing estate agents and buyer's around back in Oct 2008 after i found out about this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/163351-regulated-tenancy-planning-permission.html

 

My LL has been showing estate agents and buyer's around since Oct 2008,but has been unable to show them around my flat,if my LL did have keys to my flat he would wait until i have gone out and then show estate agents and buyer's without my permission.

 

So im glad i change my locks all them years ago,my LL still thinks he can go in to a tennants home when ever he like,at what ever time that suits him and show who ever he like around with or with out the permission of the tennants and still does this.

 

\/

 

The tennant down stairs just goes out when ever there a note hallway saying estate agents and buyer's are coming around,then the LL just lets himself in without the tennant permission,the tennant down stairs does not want to change the locks or upset the LL just incase the LL gives him 2 months notice to quit..

Edited March 9, 2010 by 45002

[MrShed]

Let me ask a "non legal" question.

 

As your relationship with your landlord is so poor, surely it is in your best interest to allow viewings?

[45002]

Let me ask a "non legal" question.

 

As your relationship with your landlord is so poor, surely it is in your best interest to allow viewings?

 

Yes it would be,but the fact my LL arranges the viewings at a time to suit him and his wife and not me.

 

I did try to arrange times with the estate agents myself,but LL told the estate agents these times did not suit him and i would wait in just for no one to show up.

 

When ever i did show estate agents and buyers around my LL insisted beening there as well,he would follow them in and most times a argument would break out between my LL and me over the smallest thing.

 

He has in the past said he would kick the doors in,if i do not estate agents and buyers around and when i told him i will call the police,he just laughed at me,i wished i had gone to the police,I will next time.

 

My friends have said i have been too soft on my LL in the past,not anymore

 

This http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/163351-regulated-tenancy-planning-permission.html if it had gone head,He was hoping that when building work had started that would have been used to force me out,in fact he said that to the buyers.

 

He cannot explain to me why he finds it necessary to rush around 6 days a week to see what post there is,whats he got to hide ?

 

My LL is a control freak and if he could get away with it he wants to see me homeless on the streets

 

I could go on and on and on and on

 

As i don''t speak to them anymore im very happy,i leave my rent book down stair every 2 week to be updated,its just when he leaves notes down stairs demanding to let estate agents and buyers is the only time now i have any contact with my LL.

 

I will let my landlord in to do any repairs,gas-electric safety inspection by qualified persons and inspection by the local council and so on and keep my rent up to date.

 

But as for the sale of the house.

 

Thats his bloody problem

[Webranger]

45002: Does it occur to you that you want a very one-sided interpretation of the law? You have a right to privacy, the landlord has a right to show the property in certain circumstances. Where those rights conflict, the rule is that the LL has to give you 24 hours notice and make it at a reasonable time. But you want to demand your rights and deny his. It doesn't work like that and, as Mr. Shed says, LL could get an injunction against you and YOU would have to pay the costs, so even a Scrooge could afford to do it.

 

You are in a position where you could get a very large sum of money from this, and LL could by offering you said large sum get himself out of a hole, but you are both too stubborn and short-sighted to see it.

 

As Winston Churchill said, "Jaw-jaw is better than war-war."

[MrShed]

I agree with Webranger, although not neccessarily with the sentiment

 

Whilst until an injunction is obtained you are not legally bound to grant access (I totally disagree with your local council that they are not likely to get such an injunction - I would in fact be amazed if he didnt get it), you are not permitting access purely as you have been wronged in the past, and therefore through a stubborn belief that you are in the right and for no other reason.

 

You are talking about a couple of viewings (yes, you can limit it to this) - but no matter how bad a person you feel your landlord is, is it right that you are completely obstructing this sale, and therefore no doubt causing various issues for him?

 

You are in danger of descending to his level.

 

I understand the temptation, but I really feel that you should be the bigger person here and allow (restricted) access for viewings.

 

If he is that much of a Scrooge, I have no doubt that he will pay the small amount to get an injunction if it means the sale of the house!

[45002]

45002: Does it occur to you that you want a very one-sided interpretation of the law? You have a right to privacy, the landlord has a right to show the property in certain circumstances. Where those rights conflict, the rule is that the LL has to give you 24 hours notice and make it at a reasonable time. But you want to demand your rights and deny his. It doesn't work like that and, as Mr. Shed says, LL could get an injunction against you and YOU would have to pay the costs, so even a Scrooge could afford to do it.

 

You are in a position where you could get a very large sum of money from this, and LL could by offering you said large sum get himself out of a hole, but you are both too stubborn and short-sighted to see it.

 

As Winston Churchill said, "Jaw-jaw is better than war-war."

 

It is not one side interpretation by me

 

But the private tenancy dept of my local council disagreed with what the solicitor had said and said it would be highly unlike my LL would get a injunction forcing me to show estate agents and buyer's around on the grounds it would breach my right to privacy and so on.

But then again my LL has one-sided interpretation of the law.

 

LL could get an injunction against you and YOU would have to pay the costs

Wrong,Solicitor said if LL got a injunction,only time i would have to pay cost is if i refused to comply with injunction,i would then end up paying LL cost,a fine or i could even be jailed.

 

But i don't belive in breaking the law like sum and would comply with injunction.

 

but you are both too stubborn

True,but if my LL had his way,i would be homeless and on the street.

 

you are in a position where you could get a very large sum of money from this, and LL could by offering you said large sum get

Never in a million years,i know my LL too well.

 

I did write to my LL back in Oct 2008 and said

 

I will let you in to do any repairs,gas-electric safety inspection by qualified persons and inspection by the local council with 24-48 hours notice and keep my rent up to date.

 

[MrShed]

True,but if my LL had his way,i would be homeless and on the street.

 

 

The difference is that the landlord cannot have his way in this respect.

 

I dont see what that has to do with the potential of you allowing viewings.

 

He may or may not be a terrible landlord. But that doesnt mean that you should act just as unreasonably.

[45002]

You are talking about a couple of viewings (yes, you can limit it to this) - but no matter how bad a person you feel your landlord is, is it right that you are completely obstructing this sale, and therefore no doubt causing various issues for him?

Its not been a few people,its been 10-15 people even more whole familys at a time..

 

I have a right to privacy and not to have show evey Tom,Dick or Harry around when ever it suits the LL.

 

If you ever meet my LL and lived here,you would then start to understand me.

 

is it right that you are completely obstructing this sale

My LL has been still showing people around the rest of the house,since i stopped him in Oct 2008,so im not obstructing there,its just my flat he cant get into.

[MrShed]

I realise it has been that many in the past, but you can allow access as you see fit - therefore just a low amount of viewings, perhaps on a pre designated day once a week.

 

You do have a right to privacy - but a 20 minute viewing once a week does not unduly affect this.

 

I do understand your perspective, and understand the temptation. The issue is that you are very much descending to his level, and acting in an unreasonable manner. This is understandable, but is still unreasonable.

 

Although the viewing is missing part of the house, this still means that prospective purchasers are still only viewing part of the property, which pretty much obstructs a sale.