Won a small claim, now what?

[Delta-NC]

Long story short, bought a laptop on ebay, was defective (FUBARly). Guy said it was "my problem" because I didn't take out insured shipping even though it was never offered and he charged me near twice what it would have cost. Which would have made no diffrence anyway because it is clear it was not damaged in the post despite being packed in only brown paper.

 

Anyway I took him to court in Scotland (he lives in England), he refused to acknowledge any correspondence bar one letter I sent initially. He avoided the court officer visiting by getting his other half to claim he does not and never has lived there. I know he does because I had called them a few times, whenever I got her he "wasn't in" and whenever I got him there where long pauses and then phrases like "he does not live at this address" instead of the commonly used "I think you have the wrong number" that most unguilty people say.

 

Anyway, because of him refusing the documents I won the case but they say his whereabouts where *address* but now "unknown".

 

Where can I go from here? Is there any way I can prove he lives there? Is there anything I can do to the address without necessarily "proving" he lives there? And would I be out of order publishing the full details of this case online? (His address, phone number included)

 

To be honest, I'd be quite content with making his life a living hell, and never see a penny back.

[Guest 10110001]

This is a bit heavyhanded & its what I would do.

 

He lives in England, then see if he is a homeowner. Visit HM Land Registry and get a copy of the title deeds to his known address. There is a charge of £3. If you have a Judgment then register a legal charge on his property. Download and complete Form CH1 and return it with a copy of your Judgment to Land Registry. You will accrue interest at 8% a year and get your money when he sells the property. If the charge is more than £750 you can ask for an Order of Sale.

[Delta-NC]

Thanks for the tip. I've posted off an application since the online checked had no results.

 

The total debt now owed to me is just over £600. £535 for the item in question and £75 in legal fees.

 

Anything else I can try?

[Guest 10110001]

Application for what? what online check produced no results? Did you mean he is not named on the land registry title of his known address?

 

You can issue a warrant addressed to the bailiff. They have greater power of determining if the judgment debtor is at the address. He can levy on his car or his goods.

 

The price of the goods is more than £100, did you pay by credit card? If yes, then hooray! You can do a simple chargeback under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and your bank will reclaim the money. Phone the bank & ask them to send you a chargeback form.

[Delta-NC]

I called up the HM Land Registry and they couldn't find details of the property online, so they told me to fill out a form and mail it in.

 

I paid using debit card via PayPal who, it is now apparent, are a bunch of crooks as well. He knew how to play their systems and due to their idiotic company policy they refuse to reopen my dispute. That being as far as I can talk to them, they seem unable to hold a continued discussion from one call/email to another.

[shywazz]

What did paypal and ebay have to say on this matter, were there involved in this. If so, and you claimed through paypal, there should have refunded the money and there chase the seller for it afterwards. if the item was damaged then you should have opened a dispute with ebay and paypal, and it might not have taken court action, i'm not sure of the cirmcumstances, but the 1st port of call would have been paypal etc.

As 101 has said, the opition of using a bailiff might be the next port of call, did'nt you ask the courts to award compo for the item?

 

Food for thought, have you tryed to send a empty package addressed to him only, wheres he needs to sign and only him, to the address he lives at, then when he signs you will know he lives there, abit crafty but least you will know.

[Guest 10110001]

A lesson learned, always use a credit card when dealing with paypal and ebay. You can do a chargeback if it all goes wrong.

 

Speak with your bank, a chargeback is still possible but its down to goodwill of your bank. You might have to plead with them to reclaim your money, they will be debiting it from paypals merchant account and not from your defendant.

 

You can use an old debt collectors trick & get a positive ID on the derfandants address. Download Google Earth and enter his postcode, get an idea of where he lives. Visit the Royal Mail postcode locator and get an address near the defendant. Have a young woman phone him by his first name, pretend to be a neighbour having some erroneously delivered mail for him. Issue warrant addressed to the bailiff, lots of them to choose from, Drakes, JBW Enforcements to name a few.

[Delta-NC]

This is basically what happened with regards to PayPal. He was clever enough not to send me anything, for nearly three weeks, until I filed a non-received dispute with PayPal. Two days later the item was at my door. Only, company policy at PayPal says you can only file one dispute per transaction. Therefore they did not care less about the fact it was wrecked because I already claimed it was late.

 

When I explained that this policy was retarded and anyone could do it anytime they wanted, all they had to say was "pretty much". Crooks.

 

He has signed for one letter from me, but none since then. I get the feeling he does this kind of thing a lot. Never tried a box however, I have a nice Amazon one sitting next to me now, could give it a try.

[Guest 10110001]

If you think he is systematically and routinely defrauding consumer en-masse then this is a criminal matter. He maybe just that, a crook.

 

In law, its called obtaining a money transfer by deception. The legislation is Section 15(a) of the Theft Act 1968.

[Delta-NC]

I got a letter back from HM Land Registry today saying they could not find any details for the property.

[RoyalMale]

Find who he has been selling to on fleabay and contact them. Ask if they have had any problem with him & his goods & if so collect all the info. Then if you have a few people who have been deceived by him contact his local police force and get each aggrieved to register each one as a deception crime.

They will then look into it

[Guest 10110001]

You dont need to write to HMLR. You can check online whether he owns his property. My post above shows how. You just need his name & address.

[Delta-NC]

I used the online checker and it could not find any details. I called and they asked me to fill in a form and return it for a manual check. This has been returned with no details ether.

[buzby]

We've not established whether it is the address you gave cannot be found (because it doesn't exist) or that the property is owned by an unconnected third party (eg rented or council owned).

[Guest 10110001]

Have you read this section?

[Delta-NC]

The clerk attended the address and spoke to his "other half" in person, she confimed that she did know him, but claimed that he had never lived there and that she did not know his whereabouts. (This is a lie, I have spoken to him on the phone since) So I know the address is a valid one.

[davjoh]

Here is how I would do it...

 

File an N1 at the County Court compelling PayPal to disclose the address they have no record for him, as well as his bank account details, under Section 35 of the Date Protection Act. On granting the Order PayPal would have to comply.

 

Once you have his bank details, obtain a third party debt order against his bank.

 

PayPal can levy a fee for gathering the information (the court has discretion to set the amount but often does not, it tends to be in the range of £100 per hour, but for the amount of work they need to do it wouldnt be an immense expense). Bear in mind though that you should be able to tack all of these costs onto him.

 

Davjoh

[patdavies]

Here is how I would do it...

 

File an N1 at the County Court compelling PayPal to disclose the address they have no record for him, as well as his bank account details, under Section 35 of the Date Protection Act. On granting the Order PayPal would have to comply.

 

Once you have his bank details, obtain a third party debt order against his bank.

 

PayPal can levy a fee for gathering the information (the court has discretion to set the amount but often does not, it tends to be in the range of £100 per hour, but for the amount of work they need to do it wouldnt be an immense expense). Bear in mind though that you should be able to tack all of these costs onto him.

 

Davjoh

 

Would this work - Paypal are based in Luxembourg

[Guest 10110001]

To trade in the UK they would need to be regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Everyone handling client money in the UK must be regulated by law.

 

Check the public register and this will give a contact address. If they don't have one then your complaint should be directed to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

If you have lost money in a paypal transaction, you can apply to the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.

 

Paypal may be operating from offshre to exclude themselves from liability under UK law, so have you explored chargeback?

[buzby]

No they don't! (Need FSA approval) that would be a restraint of trade within EU boundaries.

 

They are actually a credit institution, authorised by the Commission de Surveilance du Secteur Financier (CSSF), the Luxembourg equivalent of the FSA.

[davjoh]

Would this work - Paypal are based in Luxembourg

 

IMHO yes, they trade and market directly to UK customers, so our courts have adequate jurisdiction. PayPal have a UK address (based in Surrey I believe) on the Companies House Website.

 

The worst that could happen is PayPal argue jurisdiction, which I feel is unlikely to happen, you're only seeking discovery of information on a third party, and you have probable cause to do so.

 

2p.

 

Davjoh

[buzby]

They do not have a valid address for courrt service. a pursuer would need a 'Registered Office' within the UK juristiction and they do not have this. Service on any old UK address or the fact they have a token presence at all won't cut it.

[onlynameleft]

PayPal Limited, Paypal (UK) Limited and Paypal (Europe) Limited are all UK registered companies. The first is registered in Aldermaston, the second two in Richmond Surrey. You need to make sure you get the right company.

There are a lot of misconceptions about service under the CPR - you do NOT need to serve onthe registered office of a company. The correct addresses for service on a company are as follows:

 

Company registered in England and Wales Principal office of the company; or

Any place of business of the company within the jurisdiction which has a real connection with the claim.

Any other company or corporation Any place within the jurisdiction where the corporation carries on its activities; or

Any place of business of the company within the jurisdiction

[buzby]

Afraid not. Their status changed last June (5 months ago), and they registered from the FSA on the same date. All PayPal account holders were formally advised.

 

Since the company is no longer registered in the UK (this was an Electronic Funds service) it is now a Bank registered in Luxembourg).

[onlynameleft]

I didn't suggest they did. I gave the details of three companies which have their registered office in the UK; I did not at any time say any of these were the correct company in this case.

In any event, if the correct company carries on business in the UK the OP can serve them at that place of business.