Accountant's mistakes mean HMRC fine!

[reduk054]

Hi, can anyone please help my position regarding a couple of fines received from HM revenue and customs?

Background: OH ran a small business, and we employed an accountant. Our accountant failed to submit our forms (they insist that they did submit our annual accounts), according to the HMRC, and now we are receiving fines.

We are at stalemate with the accountants, and the long and short of it is that OH is liable for the fines as a company must have a reasonable excuse for not filing its accounts on time, and if the company employs an accountant, their delay of submitting forms (or failure to do so) is apparently within OH's control?!

Can any one please advise what I should do? OH not willing to pay the fine, as everything accounts wise was done in time at his end!!!

Who do accountants have to answer to if we wish to complain? Is it the FSA or is there a governing body for accountants?

thanks

Red

[reduk054]

I have tried a google search, but keep coming up with claim companies. I just want to use some clout at the moment with my letter to my accountant, to let them know who I will complain to if they do not resolve this situation!!

Red

[reduk054]

If this helps, my accountants are registered with the Institute of Chartered Accountants, who I presumably can contact with a complaint if necessary!

[reduk054]

Found this site....and complaint form! Looks good, off to write a letter to accountant and to the HMRC now. Grrr, all this paperwork, due to other people's incompetancies!

www.icaew.com/index.cfm?route=118987

[reduk054]

And my accountant is listed in here; ICAEW Directory of Firms (institute of chartered accountants).

[MikeSplicer]

Red Your right that indeed no matter what your accountant does as far as HMRC are concerned you are liable. I have no experience of compalining even though I was in the same boat a few years ago, but the Institure of CA seems the way to go.

 

Good Luck

[reduk054]

Thank you Mike! My current concern with the wording of the HMRC letter is that the accountant was an employee of OHs company, which he was not, but I may be splitting hairs. Will post a copy of my letter to accountant. Think its a bit harsh, but this has gone on for months and I need resolution!!

Red

[reduk054]

This is my letter to the accountants, all personal details removed! I will enclose a copy of the HMRC letter which I now need to respond to! Have saved the Institute of Chartered Accountants complaint form, in case i do not recevie a suitable outcome to my issues!!

 

COMPLAINT

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the latest letter which we have received from HM Revenue & Customs, which we find unacceptable.

We continue to receive fines from HM Revenue & Customs for failing to submit our annual accounts on time. We placed our trust in you, our accountants to perform the relevant legalities on our behalf. All correspondence from HM Revenue & Customs would suggest that you did not properly execute your duties for which payment was remitted, as per your invoice number ****.

Please rectify this problem on our behalf, by liaising directly with HM Revenue & Customs, sending your letter to *********, with a copy of your correspondence sent to us.

Please ensure that we have your response within 14 days, or we feel that we will have no choice other than to complain further to the Institute of Chartered Accountants about your handling of our account.

We hope that this matter can be resolved amicably, and we look forward to receiving your written correspondence within 14 days from the date of this letter.

[reduk054]

Received an early call from the accountant, who was not impressed by the content of my letter, and he did not feel that it was necessary for my to mention the institute of chartered accountants. he argued in his first call that because the company ran at a loss in its first year, that there were no accounts. i know that this is not the case, as I spent hours and hours getting them completed!

He also said that the fines were for the Ltd company, and not for OH. I argued that the fines, OH have been told are his liability as former director of the company. the accountant argues that the IR are a creditor and must go through the same channels as other creditors such as suppliers because its the company and not director liable.

Umm, I dont think so!

[reduk054]

Accountant has phoned me back, now he has found the accounts, which he says were submitted, for our first tax year, but that he will forward a copy of them to the IR. Sadly I dont think that nearly 2 years on that this is going to cancel the fines (which i am waiting for clarification as to the amount that OH owes). So I need to speak with the IR to ascertain what is what!

[MikeSplicer]

Unfortunately the HMRC are totally above the law and you tend not to have any say in a decision thats been made.

 

I ceased trading on a Ltd company I had and got a fine of £100 for late submission. I rang up and they insisted that I pay it even though the company was in the process of being wound up. Since the company account had been closed I issued a personal cheque and after it was cashed they then issued a refund of £100 with the letter that basically said since the company had ceased trading I have been refunded the fine. Yes you guessed it it was payable to the non trading company and they refused to reissue it in another name.

[reduk054]

Mike thank you for your posting, what a shocker! It is crazy when these big companies don't know what another dept is doing!

I spoke to a brilliant woman in the inspection of taxes. She clarfied a few points for me, and I feel a lot better. I will post the outcome shortly, just got to write my letters while I remember what to put, and to whom!

Thanks again

Red

[Guest wino]

We have gone through the same thing with our accountant. He had all the info required but the accounts were late going in. His excuse was he was waiting for more info from us but he already had everything. Next thing £500 fine from HMRC for late filing!!! £500 !! How can they justify that. We've gone down various routes to no avail. We have come to an arrangement to pay £50 per month. We've just passed our year end and guess what the accountant was late sending in all the bumff and codswallop HMRC want. We've had enough, with rising fuel costs, congestion charging, fines for using blue instead of black pen (sorry made that one up) were packing it all in. Going to work for someone else. Let them have all the headaches. Looking forward to booking time off work. First time in ten years.

[reduk054]

Oh Wino, what a palava, and I am not talking fancy puddings here (oh no that would be pavlova then!)

It is quite frankly shocking that accountants are not accountable for their non-actions, hence why I threated mine with the institute of chartered accountants. What I did not realise until today, was that the accountants had been blaming li'l ole me for not supplying them with all info, to my OH and to the IR! Charming! Now when I speak to them they can't exactly deny that I did not provide all of the paper-work!

I am so upset that we spent a fortune on having our accounts done, only to be let down at the last post. Its so fustrating!

Fortuneatly I seem to have spoken to a highly patient and compassionate person with HM Revenue and Customs, who advised me about what to do, who to write to, what to say etc...but I am still dependent upon the accountants sending in the relevant paperwork.

So I will have to continue to keep one eye on this case, and make sure that the professionals (ahem) do their work, and maybe, for a change this will have a positive outcome?!

Red

[Guest wino]

Good luck Red

[reduk054]

Thanks Wino, it would appear that i may have worked towards a resolution,. as my accountant contacted HMRC and again argued that the accounts had been filed correctly and within the time frame, hmm not sure about this myself as have seen no proof other than fines!, but will give the benefit of the doubt. I sent all of my letters to the relevant depts within HMRC, and another one to the accountant spelling out what i have expected from him, and hope to give you all good news soon!

Red

[reduk054]

Should have known that HMRC and its many offices would continue to create a stir.

Received two letters today, one confirming the amounts outstanding of fines, and one form a different local office completely with a notice warning of legal proceedings.

I am getting nowhere. No-one will correspond with each other, no-one will take responsibility. I am so anxious now. Part of me is so furious, and the other is concerned that this will all grow into a huge problem. As soon as I deal with one person, the case goes off elsewhere.

I am determined that we will not have to pay these fines, as we personally have done NOTHING wrong.

Can any one please give me any advice, as I was having a good weekend until the postman arrived. Why do such letters always arrive on a Saturday, when HMRC offices are all closed, probably so you cant vent the full flow of your anger at them as soon as you open the mail!

Grrr I am so cross now!

Please help!

Red

[Guest wino]

Hi Red. It's Wino again. Like I said in my first reply to you, we have gone through the same thing and I fought everyway to avoid the fine. It's no good I'm afraid. Unless your accountant takes full responsibility and pays the fines on your behalf (unlikley) I'm afraid your stuffed:( Although we all trust our accountants to do what we pay them for the HMRC believe it is our responsibility to have all the forms etc at their offices in time not the accountants. The only thing to do is pay up or it will get very expensive. As for the amount your fined, I think is extortionate. If your caught shoplifting, or thump somebody or even get caught with drugs you get a slap on the wrist and maybe an £80 fine. Late letting 'Big Brother' know your business and £500 fine! Wheres the justice in that?

[GuidoT]

I am slightly ahead of you, I have a claim against accountants for non filing of corporation tax computations for 03 and 04.

 

If you want to get anywhere with your accountants you need to complain to the ICA in the first instance. If you do not have the form, I can post the link when I am in work.

 

Unfortunately the ICA's complaints procedure only disciplines the accountant, they do not have the power to decide that compensatory payments should be made to you.

 

This complaints procedure is taken seriously, it is not some old boys type network, it is serious, they can take away an accountants chartership.

 

Knowing that the ICA cannot make compensatory awards, I issued a Pre-Action letter around 3 months ago, but have yet to commence proceedings, I am thinking about mediation or the ICA conciliation procedure.

 

Unfortunately you are required to pay the fines in the meantime, I did. If you speak to HMRC they will work out a payment plan. I know it is not fair, but it is for you to then claim back from the same from your accountants.

 

How much is your claim for? Mine is for £50K, so I am putting a lot of effort into it.

[The GodMother]

No judices as they can even keep your personal details safe as they have now lost everyones child benefit info and several other discs contain personal info.

[reduk054]

Hi Guidot, great advice and support indeed, and I am really grateful.

Thank you for the nudge towards the ICA, I did research this, and quite understandably, each time I speak to the accountants, they refer to my comments regarding a formal complaint against them, and how they do not like the tone or contents of my letter.

I really feel like I am being pushed from pillar to post, and whereas at one point I started to believe that it was HMRC at fault (I know where you are coming from Godmother with your post!!!), I now honestly believe that the accountant just simply, for what ever reason did not file the accounts.

All we are being fined for (or should I say the former company/or occasionally depending upon who sent the letter, my bankrupt OH) is £400 for two non-filing of accounts. There is currently no interest being added (confirmed in writing), and the company unfortunately traded at a loss, so there will not be any outstanding tax liabilites).

I do have the complaints form for the ICA, so thank you for your kind offer, but feel that I need to complete this.

The accountant advised me yesterday when asked the direct question that he did post the accounts to the local tax office, not recorded etc, and has never encountered this problem before.

One point is that I am not even sure who the accoutants were actually supposed to send the forms too!

Any way will keep you all updated.

Good luck GuidoT with your claim.

Thanks again

Red

[GuidoT]

The return would be sent to HMRC and it is good practise for an accountant to send you a copy as it is your firm.

 

It sounds like the accountant has not filed them.

 

As I said complain to the ICA, email the form and related documents. They are quite efficient and that should apply pressure to assist with resolving the matter.

 

Pending resolution you need to seriously consider paying the £400, otherwise further interest or penalties could be added.

[reduk054]

Hi GuidoT, thanks again for your help. I am now in strange territory, as I will need to let OH official receiver know about the outstanding fines....??!!! As will need to know how to proceed in paying them (AFAIK fines are not part of the debts in bankruptcy, but had better check!)

Thanks

Red

[GuidoT]

Is the firm limited or sole trader etc.?

[reduk054]

This was a Ltd firm. the accountant has argued (with me!) that due to the company being a Ltd one, then the debts should be the companies debts and not my OH. However, and my argument is that the HMRC keep addressing the fines to my OH, not the Ltd Company any more (they were doing this previously). The company has ceased trading, and waiting to be struck off from Companies House (HMRC put in an objection against being struck off due to the fines situation/non filing of annual accounts). It has not been put into liquidation.

Red