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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Barclaycard and the DCAs


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Eventually got round to sending Curlyben's letter to 1st Credit, and they sent back a very succinct reply. Their reply was they know that they cannot chase for money while an account is in dispute so they are contacting their client. So, umm, if they know that then why did they contact me in the first place?!?!?

May put this suggestion to them on a christmas card, noooo, on second thoughts, this may be the time of year for forgiveness, but even I am not that nice!

LOL nice one CB!

Red x

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Eventually got round to sending Curlyben's letter to 1st Credit, and they sent back a very succinct reply. Their reply was they know that they cannot chase for money while an account is in dispute so they are contacting their client. So, umm, if they know that then why did they contact me in the first place?!?!?Because they didnt know you had friends in CAG and did not roll over and cough up as they thought you would.

May put this suggestion to them on a christmas card, noooo, on second thoughts, this may be the time of year for forgiveness, but even I am not that nice!

LOL nice one CB!

Red x

 

Bah Humbug

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Please refer to 1st Credit as 1st Credit. Thank you.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Nothing to update, just sumising this past year so that I can look forward to 2008...

Started this year with RMA, who were the nastiest bullies and name-callers. Paid them what I could afford until I CCA'd them, and then heard no more.

Started to repay BC what I could afford per month direct without any contact from them at all

BC passed my debt on to 1st C, who got all heavy, and threatening charging orders. Reminded them that due to no CCA from my previous request, debt is in dispute

Complained to FOS about BC - waiting to hear

BC said that they would look into my complaint

1st C referring back to BC. No further contact at present.

Still no CCA.

Red still paying what I can afford, as I have a duty to pay what is owed!

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Good news there Red, lets see who crawls out of the wood work next.

I certainly can't wait to see who B'card passes my account to next.

Hey you never know I might stop mucking about and actually file in court for the charges, but seeing as they are almost the same as the outstanding balance, I think I might just stay as I am.

I have after all, offered B'card a way out, but they ignored that completely.

  • Haha 1

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Hi Red - Have you tried approaching Northampton TS about Barclaycard? As you know from my thread since TS involvement B/C and Mercers haven't sent me anything except my monthly statements. I too am paying what I can afford to, but the respite I've had from sending everything to TS (who are obviously very busy and don't like to rush these things!) has been very refreshing. I think I'll report Sainsbury's next to their local TS although at the moment they are letting me pay £10 per month, however they, like Barclaycard, continue to add interest and charges whilst the account remains in dispute.

 

Good luck for 2008 :)

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Thanks CB, Tau and DM! Happy new year to you all. I will continue with the current plan, of paying what I can afford, directly to BC, and I will see how I feel in a couple of weeks, depending upon any insight from the FOS, as to whether to complain further or not!

Looking forward to 2008, its started with a "Notice of Legal proceedings" but not from BC or their henchmen....ah well, at least I know what to with it.....;)

Cheers guys and girls for all your help and support

Red

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  • 2 weeks later...

Next! BC have written through twice, firstly to say that they are sorry that they have not dealt with my complaint (which I made to FOS and not to BC), and that I can go to the FOS once they have sent me their final response (oops!).

Also they have written through to say that they have assigned my debt to 1st credit and that I should pay them directly. Well no, BC, I will not! I am not going to pay some bully boy DCA who cannot comply with a simple CCA request, and in honesty , i am not too sure other than moral high ground and honesty to own up to my debts as to why I am paying BC at all!

Nothing from FOS re this one, since my original complaint, so if my photocopier has decided to work, then i will send the FOS copies of their letters, which will back up my complaint of passing on the debt to a DCA without taking my I&E into account, and the insistent charges and interest. BC have said that following default by me, that they are within their right to pass the debt on. I do not dispute this, but why tell me now, after the 5h!t has started to hit the fan?!

Oh well, carry on reagrdless! (Beautiful South)

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Hi Red, sounds as if they have thrown in the towel if they have passed it to a DCA. Sad. LTSB have done same to me.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Hi Gold lady, lovely to hear from you again, hope that you are well! I think that often BC throw in the towel early, but only after they have added loads of charges and interest!. I honestly can't be dealing with a DCA who cannot legally comply with my requests. Who are you paying now? LTSB, or DCA or neither?;)

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neither of them :p

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Next! BC have written through twice, firstly to say that they are sorry that they have not dealt with my complaint (which I made to FOS and not to BC), and that I can go to the FOS once they have sent me their final response (oops!).

Also they have written through to say that they have assigned my debt to 1st credit and that I should pay them directly. Well no, BC, I will not! I am not going to pay some bully boy DCA who cannot comply with a simple CCA request, and in honesty , i am not too sure other than moral high ground and honesty to own up to my debts as to why I am paying BC at all!

Nothing from FOS re this one, since my original complaint, so if my photocopier has decided to work, then i will send the FOS copies of their letters, which will back up my complaint of passing on the debt to a DCA without taking my I&E into account, and the insistent charges and interest. BC have said that following default by me, that they are within their right to pass the debt on. I do not dispute this, but why tell me now, after the 5h!t has started to hit the fan?!

Oh well, carry on reagrdless! (Beautiful South)

 

 

Good on you Red for refusing to pay DCA. As i put on my thread, i think i am gaining a small amount of compliance from Barclays. This is down to FOS and a refusal to lie down. Like you, i forward all correspondence to FOS which shows Barclays we mean what we say!! I also take great pleasure in responding to all their correspondence and highlighting their wrong doings!!

 

Keep at 'em!! :)

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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  • 5 months later...

Hello all! Gosh haven't been on CAG for aaaagggesssss, but my situation still seems the same! LOL Like lots of debts, 1st Credit still trying it on, BC ignoring me.

Must admit to being a bit tardy. Have just carried on paying £10 p/m to BC, and am about to get back in touch with the FOS about BC.

1st Credit sent me something which they thought was a CCA agreement, but it failed on a number of issues.

Lucky me, 1st Credit also sent one print out of something which is all abbreviated and makes no sense, other than opening balance and outstanding balance! Do they think that they have complied with my SAR request?!

Told them in no uncertain terms that they have not, and to leave me alone (letter was better worded!).

So now I will send BC a letter (again), asking for PPI refund/account charges and interest refund, and that they have not followed OFT guidelines by appointing DCAs without notifying me first.

So you all will probably have to put up with me again!

Nice to be back!

Red :)

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Hello all! Gosh haven't been on CAG for aaaagggesssss, but my situation still seems the same! LOL Like lots of debts, 1st Credit still trying it on, BC ignoring me.

Must admit to being a bit tardy. Have just carried on paying £10 p/m to BC, and am about to get back in touch with the FOS about BC.

1st Credit sent me something which they thought was a CCA agreement, but it failed on a number of issues.

Lucky me, 1st Credit also sent one print out of something which is all abbreviated and makes no sense, other than opening balance and outstanding balance! Do they think that they have complied with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request?!

Told them in no uncertain terms that they have not, and to leave me alone (letter was better worded!).

So now I will send BC a letter (again), asking for PPI refund/account charges and interest refund, and that they have not followed OFT guidelines by appointing DCAs without notifying me first.

So you all will probably have to put up with me again!

Nice to be back!

Red :)

 

Hey hey!! How ya doin? It's really good to see you back :)

 

I knew you said you were having a break, but i didn't think it'd be for this long!!! :p

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thx Hopeful1, so glad that you are still here!

I sent off my complaint form direct to BC, and have had the standard reply, of we are sorry to hear of your disatisfaction....looking into it...etc.

I have probably opened another can of worms here, by contacting BC direct, but was so fed up of 1st credit that I wanted to make my voice heard to BC.

I feel a little like the walls are closing in on me at the moment, as none of my creditors appear to be playing fair, maybe due to the credit crunch, however I am sure that all them will still be reporting large annual profits.

Will let you know of any developments...

Red

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Hey CB!!!!! Lovely to hear from you, last time I was on here you had gone AWOL ;)

Yes its still going on...I will probably die before this gets resolved.

The way my luck is currently going I will have to change my identity and move abroad LOL

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You can't keep a good ape down ;)

 

 

This is very true! And don't the OC/DCA's know it too! :D,

maybe I should change my identity into an ape (no smart comments please!!!), and achieve more sucess in fending off any further harrassment.

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This is very true! And don't the OC/DCA's know it too! :D,

maybe I should change my identity into an ape (no smart comments please!!!), and achieve more sucess in fending off any further harrassment.

 

Can we see the pictures when you do this :p

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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  • 1 month later...

BC have written to me today in response to my complaint letter of charges, passing my account to a DCA without notifying me, mis-selling PPI, and all they have said is that 1st C are legal owners of my account (and have been for nearly a year apparently), and that BC have basically washed their hands of my complaint. I have, as previously mentioned been paying BC.

So why do the DCA not take further action if they are the legal owners, BC say that my account was passed on to (not sold to) DCA. I have written through to DCA to say that my account is in dispute with BC? :confused:

If the debt now belongs to 1st C, then why are they not jumping up and down at me, and accepting that I have raised a complaint against the OC?

I am really confused (and not happy with BC!)

Any suggestions/help appreciated!

Red

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  • 2 months later...

Here we go again!

1st C's "solicitors" are applying the scare tactics of court action but they still can't provide me with CCA. They like my application form though, think I have been sent it three times now. :D

Trading Standards have been very very helpful, and have advised that all phone calls that I have made regarding this complaint (about 18 months worth) can be used as evidence in court, OFT have also been very good, I have someone assigned to this complaint, along with a direct line tel no! And FOS are also very good, and patient bearing in mind that I just keep adding to my complaint!

Lots of paperwork to do, but I am sure that it will be worth it - on a satisfaction level rather than financial!

Red

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