Not warned about high repair cost

[adlloyd79]

Hi,

just after a bit of advise. I took my car to an approved garage because the engine management light had come on. They told me that the o2 sensor needed replacing and that this would cost about £200. I agreed to this and left the car with them as they hadn't got the part in stock.

They rang me the next day to say that the o2 sensor had seized and that when they removed it the thread had been stripped off the manifold and this would also now need replacing and that the cost was now going to be £600.

Although they did ring me before they carried out the extra work by the time they rang me the car was unusable and I had little choice but to agree to the work being carried out.

Do I have a case again the garage as I was at no point warned that the eventual cost could be a high as £600 which is three times the original quote, and had I been warned that this was a possibility I would probably not have agreed to the work being done?

 

Thanks,

 

Aaron

[Chesterexpress]

You have no claim against them (however read on), they quoted on the original work to which you agreed. During the course of that work it became evident that there was a problem, which they couldn't foresee until they started the work. They then contacted you and informed you of the cost, to which you again agreed.

 

However as to whether or not it realy required this extra work is another matter, did you see the faulty part? I would ask a friendly garage for a second opinion on this.

[freakyleaky]

You definately should find out if the work they have done has been overcharged. It seems very expensive to me. £600 because a thread had gone? Something doesn't sound right!

[adlloyd79]

I have told them that I want all parts that are replaced so I will have a look at that side of things when I get the car back.

However I have spoken to some people in the trade and they tell me that this is a fairly regular occourance and so the garage are probably telling the truth and that the extra work was required. However they also tell me that because this quite often happens I should have been warned that it was a possiblity before they started the work so that I understood how much the work might cost. It would then have been my choice whether to take the risk of having the work done knowing that potentionally it could cost £600.

Where do you think I would stand on that argument?

[Conniff]

When you say 'an approved garage' are you meaning a 'dealer' in that make?

 

What is the make, model and year of your car lloyd?

 

As o2 sensors, or Lambda, as they are called are usually in the exhaust downpipe, this should have been foreseen and should not have been a problem. They know the exhaust heats up and cools down and may cause the thread to seize and the appropriate pretreatment applied. They only have to apply a bit of heat around the area and the sensor will practically drop out.

 

To strip a thread of this size will take quite a bit of leaverage, even swung on, and I would suggest that the special tool (a socket with a slot down the side for the wire)was not used.

 

As I said earlier, they are usually in the exhaust downpipe, so I can't see where the extra £400 came from. It would not cost this to supply and fit an exhaust downpipe.

Sensors are priced around £50-£90 and is little different than changing a spark plug so that is an expensive quote anyway.

 

If this wasn't the main dealer, give the main dealer a ring and ask how much to supply and fit an exhaust downpipe, that will give you the manufacturers price and labour cost.

 

Make sure you do get the old parts back, they are your property after all, and then have a look to see what did happen, it could be that they broke it off leaving it in the pipe which is very unprofessional, even amateur.

[ukaviator]

It would have been cheaper to replace the downpipe. As you say, some heat around the area of the fitting, should have been used to remove the old sensor, especially if they already know that this breaking off or damaging the thread is regular. Also, did you sign the official job card when the car was booked in?.

 

Also if the mechanic was an apprentice still in training, and if you could prove that, you maybe able to meet them half way.

[adlloyd79]

Thanks for the reply's guys, when I say an approved garage I mean I took it to a Vauxhall Masterfit garage.

The car is a Y reg Vauxhall Corsa (2001).

When I took the car in I signed a form approving the work which had the original quote of about £200 on it, (to be fair this included £50 for the original test to find out why the engine management light was on so only £150 to buy and fit the replacement sensor) I do have to admit that I didn't read all the small print though so I don't know what all the terms were on that form.

I got the car back late last night and the first thing I noticed was that I have only had the old Lambda sensor returned, they have not given me the exhaust manifold that they replaced. This is despite me asking for all parts that had been replaced, and I even saw that on their own paperwork it had written in big letters "Keep All Parts". The second thing that caught my attention was that the old sensor has a lot of damage around the part where you would attach a spanner to remove it from the car. It is clear that a lot of force was used to remove it from the car as the sensor has chunks missing from the bolt section which must have happened when they were trying to get it out.

I shall be ringing the garage shortly to speak to them about this (particularly where the damaged manifold is), any more advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Aaron

[Conniff]

Morning lloyd.

 

Have a check that they have in fact replaced the exhaust downpipe, or does it say this on your final bill? If it is on the bill, check anyway.

 

I still think you should ring another Vauxhall Masterfit and get the price of supply and fit so you have a comparison.

[adlloyd79]

Hi,

on the bill it has Exhaust Manifold listed at £334, is this the same as the downpipe or are they different?

[Conniff]

Hi lloyd

 

No, the manifold is not the same thing as the downpipe. The manifold is the iron part bolted directly to the head and usually covered with a tin plate which would explain the higher cost.

 

As soon as they knew that it was tight and it would not release with the normal methods, they should have used another proven method to remove it instead of just getting a bigger bar and swinging off that.

 

Going by my experience, I would be in touch with the manager. This is not a normal thing to happen, and I don't think they should make you pay for their error and careless handling of a repair that is afterall, what they are supposed to be experts at, and why you entrusted it to them.

 

Perhaps it was not done on removal but on installation of the new one and they cross threaded it but continued to tighten which would strip the thread.

 

If this was a normal occurance then you would have been warned at booking in that this could happen and signed to say that you will accept the risk and pay for the remedy, and Vauxhall would have changed the position of the sensor to stop this happening.

 

Any news on the return of the original manifold, and have you looked to see if a new manifold has been installed?

[adlloyd79]

Hi Conniff,

yeah I have already spoken to the manager several times but he will not take any responsibility for the damage. I do now have the number for customer care at the head office though so I will try them next.

I got the manifold back last night and to my untrained eyes I cannot actually see why it needed replacing. There is definitely still a thread in it and it seems in good enough condition to be used to me. I even managed to screw the old sensor is with only my hands and it seemed secure even without being properly tightened!

I tried to have a quick look at the manifold in the car this morning but I had just driven to work so it was too hot to look properly (unfortunately it is now dark when I leave and get home from work so I have difficulty finding daylight to look at the car!), however I will have a proper look tomorrow to check that it really has been replaced.

[ukaviator]

I think a call to trading standards may be required here. The mark up on the Manifold, with extra labour, would be quite large.

[grockle]

I'm not in the garage trade, but i am in engineering.

 

If the thread in the manifold was stripped, then i would have used a Helecoil insert. A new thread would be cut, one size larger than the orignal, then a stainless steel insert would be screwed into the new thread

bringing it back to it's original size. Half hour job at the most.

 

 

grockle

[Conniff]

I've used helicoils and they work a treat.

 

I think maybe lloyd that you could take the manifold and the sensor to a local garage and ask them to apply the correct torque to the sensor and see if the threads are indeed weakened. If the torque wrench clicks then you can take it back to the garage that changed it and ask them why as there is nothing wrong with it.

[adlloyd79]

Well I had a proper look yesterday and the manifold has indeed been replaced so they at least got that bit right.

However I did take the old manifold to another local garage who told me that they could not see anything wrong with it. However they did say that this was "off the record".

I am going to speak to customer care tomorrow about why the part was replaced.

[Conniff]

Thats the way, keep on to them. You can mention that you have taken it to an engineer, no names required, and tell him in their opinion there is nothing wrong with it, so he will then have to explain what made them change it.

 

Lloyd, ring another masterfit garage, in another town close to you and ask how much to change the manifold and sensor, you can say you think you have messed it up doing it yourself.

 

They initially quoted for the change of the sensor and then for the price of changing the manifold, they didn't complete the first job, so can't expect full price for it.

[Conniff]

Anything happened yet lloyd?

[adlloyd79]

Nothing major yet. Spoke to the area manager on Tuesday and I have to say he was much more understanding and seemed to accept that they may have made a mistake. He is going to see me on Saturday and is going to take a look at the manifold, we will see what comes of that.

[Conniff]

Nice one - keep us informed.

[adlloyd79]

Hi,

well I spoke to the area manager on Saturday and after a bit of a discussion he accepted that although that part was not in perfect condition it did not actually need to be replaced. He told me he would speak the garage manager and call me.

Last night I got a call from the garage manager (I am obviously not worthy of the area managers time). He said that I must have misunderstood the original call from the garage and that they never told me that the part HAD to be replaced but that they had only recommended it be replaced and that it was my decision. This is a blatant lie, what they actually said to me was that my car would be un-driveable without this part being replaced but obviously this is just my word against theirs.

Unfortunately it seems I have now got to the stage where there is little I can do. If the garage are going to lie about what they did and said then I don't really have anyway to prove that they were in the wrong.

[Conniff]

Hi lloyd

 

they never told me that the part HAD to be replaced but that they had only recommended it be replaced and that it was my decision.

 

This to me is an admission that the thread had not in fact stripped as they said. If the thread had stripped then it would not have been a recommendation but a must.

 

Well now that you have had access to the area manager, I would write to him personally and dispute what the manager has said and give him your version of the call saying, this is what I was told telling him that they said the car 'would be un-drivable'.

Let him know that you only agreed because you relied on their professional knowledge and honesty.

I am wondering how they remembered your call verbatim anyway from the hundreds they will have made in that time.

 

Make the letter polite and ask that he now instruct the garage to refund you for the unnecessary replacement of the manifold and labour costs involved.

 

You don't have to prove it lloyd, they cannot prove what they said either.