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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Miniconverter V BTs £4.50 ripoff


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On Friday night I rang BT to ask for a revised bill less the £4.50 payment processing charge. After speaking to various people and being on the phone for about 1 hour I finally realized all there staff had been brain washed into believing this charge was fair reasonable and lawful. I have therefor written the following letter which I will post in the morning

 

Mr miniconverter

Our House

Some street

Somwhere

24 September 2007

 

BTCustomer Services

BT plc

Correspondence Centre

Durham DH98 1BT

Account Number SL**** ****

Bill Number Q*****

 

Telephone Number 01*********

Your complaint Reference 21*****

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I am writing to complain about your penalty charge (named payment processing fee) you have forced me to pay during various telephone conversations on 21 September 2007 with threats of having my line restricted or late payment charges added to my account if I refuse to pay.

At no time have I contracted with BT to pay by any particular method and as such retain the right to pay by any method including but not restricted to cash or debit card. If you believe I have contractually agreed to this charge or a specific payment method please forward me a true-signed copy of the contract in question.

 

Further more this charge is punitive in nature and is not a true pre estimate of your liquidated costs, as it does not reflect the true cost of processing my payment. It is simply a method of increasing your revenue. You will be aware that the law states very clearly that a penalty charge of this nature is unlawful and as such unenforceable, and request that you provide me with evidence to the contrary if you refute this.

 

 

In the absence of such evidence, I require the immediate return of the charge along with my costs which equate to Charge £4.50 plus signed for postage of £1.04 total £5.54. You will notice at this point I have added no charge for my time or stationary in an effort to be fair and to ensure I do not profit but reserve the right to add these costs at a later date if you fail to refund my money within 14 days.

If you do not issue a refund, or you do not respond positively, within 14days, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim in the county court at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Mr miniconverter

Has any one had a refund and has anyone taken them to court yet?

What do you think to the letter?

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Excellantly worded letter..........

 

I am persueing the same action against SKY TV and also now my insurance company. I did however convert to DD with BT, this was only because having taken out broadband with them I decided a monthly payment plan was better for me, elsewise I too would go down the same route with them.

 

Keep up the good work and once again.....brilliant letter!

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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Has any one had a refund and has anyone taken them to court yet?

What do you think to the letter?

 

 

 

Yes - I took Sky to court for this and they settled 1 week before the case called. The letter is fine, but I doubt it would be understood by the recipient. With Sky I simply got a 'we do it because we can' and you'll have to lump it. See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/29691-sky-subscriber-services.html?highlight=sky+subscriber+services

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any update on this?

 

I was cut off today after disputing this charge, so I'm on the warpath...

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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Bt haven't even acknowledged receipt of my letters sent the letter before action just over a week ago. Will go down to the court tomorrow or Friday and get an N1 which I will take in on Monday when there second 14 day period expires.

 

Interesting to note they have cut you off animalmagic for none payment as I am sure this has much far reaching implications. If I go to court would you be prepared to let me have proof they cut you off as they threatened this action with me and I am sure this has got to be some kind of harassment forcing you to make an unlawful payment.

 

I'am sure sombody will be allong soon that can tell us if this is harresment or somthing simalar.

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Don't know how I can 'prove' we were cut off - we received no notice - when we try to make a call we get diverted to BT's automated system where we eventually get a message saying we haven't paid our bill. My wife was so distressed, I went in an paid it online, then discovered later that I had already paid it less the 4.50 charge back in August. I'd be happy to provide you with a letter confirming this... Don't know when we'll get the line back.

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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  • 1 month later...

how did this go ?

 

Did you get a response from BT??

 

This may also be of interest to people

 

An intersting issue has now arisen concernig the £4.50 payment processing fee and my account (ex) with BT.

 

I have now changed from BT to Tiscali for both phone line rental and broadband, whereas previosuly I was being charged £11 and £27.99 per month by BT for rental only (plus call charges) and the dreadr £4.50 a quarter fee for paying by cheque.

 

I now pay £19.99 a month for line rental, (upto) 8mb unlimited broadband and calls to 01 and 02 numbers with Tiscali.

 

However I have refused to pay BT the £4.50 charge on my last two bills (including the final bill) and sent the letter as shown previously in this discussion.

 

Today I received the following reply

 

"Dear Sir

 

Many thanks for your letter. Your views are important to us and we take all comments seriously. I'm sorry to read that you feel strongly about the changes to our payment options.

We very much appreciate the fact that you always pay on time

BT is committed to offering great value for money. We recently sent you a leaflet explaining why we've made changes to our payment options. On May 1st we reducedthe price of line rental by £3.00 and briadband by £3.00 a quarter for customers who don't pay by direct debit.

There ia an amount outstanding on your final bill of £9.00, this payment is required and I would need to highlight that if an amount is left unpaid then normal follow action is taken which may result in the amount being referred to a debt collection agency. We are sorry to lose your custome however, we would like to remind you that as part of your terms and conditions you are required to pay your bill in full when you receive it

 

Many thanks

Yours sincerely

K Hussain

Customer Services Advisor"

 

NOW

My question is, has anyone else received a letter of this nature, threatining to pass their £4.50 or £9.00 of unjustified charges to a debt collection agency, and what shoudl my next steps be in this battle of unfair charges.

 

I have moved away from BT (with a saving of £19 a month in basic charges), sent the appropriate letters and also withheld payment at the same time.

 

Any suggestions

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The new provider offers DD or Credit Card payments as the only option, so that is not an issue in this case and also as all calls to 01 and 02 numbers are free (my mobile has 1000 cross network minutes a month) then all I will be paying is 19.99 a month (whereas bt add on not only line rental but call costs, equipment rental (funny how they haven't asked for the old phone back after 14 years of chargeing for it) and then add vat on top of it all (yes even including vat added to the £4.50 Payment Processing fee)

 

I have no problems with Direct Debit, but I do have a problem being told that unless I pay by direct debit I will be penalised (I have paid on time by cheque for the past 14 years so why should I now be penalised by an unfair charge)

 

Would like some advice concerning how to respond to the letter from BT as I haven't paid the charge and therefore can not sue them for it's return.

 

Many thanks again

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I see where your coming from, but your option still doesn;t get to the root of the problem (ie you are being forced to pay by DD or plastic) the fact they don't offer any other payment method is highly relevant. They don't charge you more, not because they're being fairer to the consumer, but because they restrict your payment methods. On balance, I take the view this is discriminatory because it means their service cannot be used by those who may shun credit cards and don''t want to use (or trust) banks.

 

If they are there to offer a service in the UK, it is the customer who decides to pay for the service, not be told HOW they should pay!

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  • 1 month later...

Any news on the court action or did you give up?

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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Sorry i haven't posted regarding this for ages but have been very busy helping a friend claim back his bank charges which we won on Wednesday this week. Yorkshire sent some clever solicitor type person to court and the first thing he said was it was uneconomical for his client to defend so the case has been stayed for 14 days to allow the bank to pay up.

 

Anyway i will start my action against Bt next week now this is out of the way and I have a bit more time. Bt also charged me another £4.50 the week before Christmas so the amount is getting bigger all the time

 

I will post and let everybody know what I am doing over the next few days.

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  • 3 months later...

Any news on this? :-)

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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