T-Mobile cancelled my contract and want to charge me for remaining term

[monkfish213]

I recently took out a t-mobile contract (everyone 3000 / 18 month @ £30 / month)

 

I put the sim in a sim router so that i could make calls from my land line to mobile lines during the evening for very cheap. after the first bill arrived with no additional charges i was very happy.

 

A couple of days later i received a letter stating that i was in breach of contract because my sim was being used in a sim box and that it would be terminated in 14 days with me subject to a charge of £30 x 16 remaining months.

 

My own normal mobile line has now been suspended as i have not paid the cancellation fee on the other sim. Not happy

 

A friend told me that t-mobile cancelled a contract with HBOS recently (trying the same charge) and lost a case on grounds that t-mobile cannot charge for a service they are not providing.

 

Is there aything i can do to resolve the situation in either of the following manners:

 

1: they reconnect the sim and i continue saving money on my land line to mobile calls

 

2: they remove this crazy charge - and take back any equipment supplied

 

3: one of the above and some sort of compensation for any reason someone can think of

[buzby]

SIM routers are shut down by the networks when they are identified (under their fair use policy) however it is normal to receive a warning beforehand. If you did not receive a warning before the service was removed, then you to have the opportunity to appeal for re-reinstatement, but your use of the router must have been substantial for them to have noticed the flow of traffic and suspend your service.

 

Ask where you have breached any terms or conditions, and in the absence of this ask for the service to be re-provided.

[monkfish213]

I dont see how the use of an hour or so of evening calls can provide significant load on their services.

[buzby]

It may also have to do with the destinations called, certain codes appearing to be mobile are used for revenue avoidance purposes, it is probably this that alerted them, not the fact you were using a router for an hour or so nightly.

[AlphaBeta]

I had a similar problem, I got my SIM Box deactivated just in a few days.

What do you mean when you say that it could be because of the destinations that were called?

[Cattolica]

:?

[lawbunny]

Hey, I had a look at the T-Mobile T&Cs regarding this, because I wasn't sure (you can find the T&Cs on the website):

 

"2(d)(ii) We own the SIM cards. You can only use a SIM card to use the services."

 

"the services" is defined in section 1 as: "services including additional services provided to you by us."

 

Also:

 

"3(h) You must obtain our express prior written consent before:

(i) operating, whether directly or through a third party, any device to route or re-route voice, data or other services on, from or to the network"

 

"6(a) We may suspend the services or terminate this agreement and disconnect any SIM card(s) from the network without warning if:

(ii) you or anyone who uses your SIM card does not keep to the conditions of this agreement or any other agreement with us"

 

Also, section 7 has a big bit about how they can charge you for the rest of your line rental if they cancel your contract because you breached the T&Cs.

 

 

Because you have two lines on your account, any charges all go together as one outstanding balance, so by not paying the termination fee for one line, the non-payment suspension goes against the whole account (ie all of your lines); it does not distinguish just the line you don't want to pay for.

 

Within a certain time period (although I think it is only 7 days) you can ask to have your line reconnected (although they will probably charge £15 to do this).

[davethorp]

Slightly off topic but what is a sim router?

[buzby]

It's a device that allows users to route calls from 'normal' phones via a mobile network, primarily to save a fortune on calling a mobile network from a fixed network. Since the call will originate on a mobile network, the high termination charges of delivering a call from fixed to mobile are avoided. Whilst this in itself seems innocent enough, others saw an anomaly in call charging to 'foreign' destination, but using what appears to be a normal mobile number that then acts as a gateway to make low coast international calls, bypassing the home mobile networks international charging.

 

This is why once networks identify a SIM router, they watch the traffic on it very carefully, and block service if they don't like what they see,

[Cattolica]

Very interesting, I have googled 'sim router' without much luck. Can you give any other info Buzby? Thanx.

[buzby]

Try GSM Router, PSTN to GSM Gateway - or you can see the device here: GSM Gateway - Follow Me GSM Gateway - Automatic call routing to mobiles

[Cattolica]

Many thanks...

[AlphaBeta]

It looks like you are an expert on that Buzby!

I had a look at that link you sent ....I do not see anything ilegal about having one of these gateways...why did T-Mobile cancell it then??

[buzby]

It is not 'illegal' per se - simply that if it is used in a way to deprive the networks of what they feel is their rightful revenue, then they'll do what they can to stop it. For example Orange contract users often got to dial 0800 calls completely free - and good for them. Unfortunately some firms offered 'cheap' international calls using a Freefone number, which meant they gave with one hand, and got kicked in the teeth on the other! So, they - once they identified the 0800 numbers being used as the dial -through, they blocked access, making that 0800 number unreachable from Orange.

 

Later the networks added a condition to specifically warn customers that if they identified the use of a GSM router, they reserved the right to terminate service without notice. There were many firms that had rooms with banks of Nokia Premicel's (Router), and the networks would identify these due to their unchanging locations and the volume of calls - usually continuously!

 

T-Mobile's cancellation would be due in most part that it broke their T&C's.

[Cattolica]

Would a single home used unit show up on the networks alarms ?

[buzby]

It would show up (as all mobiles do, due to their 'call-in' ping sent every 10 minutes or so) but if you check out that earlier link, you can see how useful these devices can be, especially if you've got plenty of talk time that needs used up.

 

It is probably unlikely you would ever have the amount of calls that would cause the network's 'abuse' software to flag you up as a potential problem (unless you were using all these international call routing numbers the network may have on its hit list).

 

I use one, (a 3G version) so that it can take the strain when my BB goes down, and I've never had a problem.

[Cattolica]

Thanx again for the info.

[AlphaBeta]

many thanks Buzby!

and what is that thing you mentioned about the 'call-in' ping sent every 10 minutes ? I do not understand yet how they can detect it......

[buzby]

Depending on the network (and it can change depending on how busy the network is) it will ask every mobile registered on that base station to 'report in'. Your mobile then transmits its IMEI code and the networks can work out which mobiles are being served by what base station (BTS). A side issue to this is that since your mobile can be 'heard' by more than one BTS, software can triangulate with a fair degree of accuracy where you are located. As you move - even if you don't make any calls - the network knows where you are.

 

The upside about this is that since the network knows this, it is able to deliver your next incoming call to the BTS you last used (or had heard you on). This means the call can be offered to your nearest base quickly, and not (as it were) broadcast it from every BTS in the UK whilst it tries to find you.

 

If your phone doesn't answer to the last known position, the search is expanded outwards until if finds you, and if it doesn't the calls is offered to voice-mail, often without your phone ringing at all!

 

The downside? The networks have been told to retain this location data for all of their customers, so by giving an IMEI number to the network, police can be provided with a trace of the mobile's movements in ADDITION to any calls you may have made or received.

 

If you want to know how often your mobile 'calls home', place it near an FM radio and wait for the 'tiddly-boop-beep-burp' sounds you hear - they last for about 5 seconds.

 

When you NEXT hear them, that will be the interval the network is currently using. It can vary from as much as every 10 minutes, to up to 30. If you make or receive a call in the interim, it'll skip that period as you've already done their work for them!

[AlphaBeta]

Wouw!! I am really impressed!!!

Does it mean the mobile operator uses that information about IMEIs to decide whether you have a GMS gateway? Do they know that because that IMEI remains always in the same BTS? Do they put those IMEIs in a black list? Do they use this information together with the pattern of your calls to determine whether you are using a GSM Gateway? This is getting very interesting!! many thanks again!

[buzby]

They could use all the things you mention, and their fraud reporting systems will have the ability to flag these anomalies if asked, but the cynic in me believes all they REALLY do is let the billing system flag up it's 'known' numbers list for revenue loss - a case in point is the O7 code issued to the now defunct business service - I think it was called 'Dolphin', but I could be wrong, and the codes were re-used for revenue share schemes.

 

Whilst they'll know the IMEI, they cannot block it, as they didn't supply the item, and it is not tied to a contract, then they cannot unilaterally decide to block your use of the Router, but they CAN block the SIM as being used contrary to your agreed T&C's!

[jampot]

I still don't see why the use of a SIM Router by 1 person is any different to dialing those same numbers using the SIM in a mobile handset. Presumably the router cannot route multiple calls at the same time, or at least the OP wasn't attempting to do the same...?

[buzby]

Absolutely, but a SIM router stops you getting a 'sweaty ear' or your brain irradiated from constant usage (which you would if you used a standard mobile). Also remember the networks never disclose the % of the number of users who actually use up ALL of their inclusive texts/voiced minutes. For all we know, only 10% of users may consume them all - but with as router, the chances are ALL minutes are used up.

[jampot]

I don't disagree, Buzby, but by that definition, using a Bluetooth (or wired) headset would also prevent 'sweaty ear'. I wonder if they'll cancel contracts of people using those too?

 

I rarely use anywhere CLOSE to my allowance, but I assume that the cost of maintaining a customer's contract where they use a minimal amount, versus when they habitually use the full allowance (and no more) is roughly the same. I would also assume that the Network Provider sets its prices to account for the worst possible scenario. Whilst it is true that the Network Provider probably has a higher profit margin (for the same ARPU) for someone who doesn't use all their "minutes", they still won't make a loss on a user who does.

 

In which case it does seem rather churlish to expressly prevent a user from availing themselves of the full inclusive minutes, purely because they choose to use a different device to facilitate this.

[buzby]

Well, it wasn't a 'definition' per se - but you'd have to keep the phone (or bluetooth device) charged and recharged to be available, the router is mains powered, will take a standard PSTN handset and work like the proverbial Duracell bunny!

 

As for networks being call-allowance neutral, we'll never know this as the networks aren't saying, but forums are full of folk trying to reduce their price plan/call allowance, NOT uprate it! Like you, I'm never near my upper ceiling, but the networks CAN get it wrong - look at all those cashback firms who got caught out because their clients managed to leap through all those classic hurdles to make payment claims that made their business model fall apart!