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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Moved into council home with rats


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Asking on behalf of someone I met earlier today.

 

They moved into a council house 2 to 3 weeks back and have a problem with rats getting into the kitchen and bathroom via existing holes in the kitchen floor. Rats have been present in the rooms at the same time as the residents.

 

The council advised they offer no free pest control service but the tenants can pay for the council to visit at a cost of nearly £50.

 

Does the council not have a duty to deal with this as the problem was present when the tenancy started.

 

And, if the council has such a duty, can someone quote the legislation so the tenants can take this back to the council.

 

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Hi slick

 

What the council are trying to do is pull a fast one to get the tenant to pay for something ultimately they already knew about befor the tenants even moved in or should have known about if a proper inspection of the property had been done.

 

They will try and worm there way out of this blaming the tenants will different reason but don't let them especially since they have only been in that property 2-3 weeks max and they have had the issue from the start.

 

I hope the tenants have reported all the disrepair issues to the council housing repairs.

 

What they now need to do is to exhaust the HA complaints procedure and when done onto the housing ombudsman. (I know this all takes time and they want the rats gone).

 

Make sure and title the Letter 'Formal Complaint' and explain the disrepair issues that HA should have been aware of and the rat issue and that you require then to sort the disrepair and rats issue as a matter of urgency and Health & Safety. (You send this letter not to the council but specifically the council housing)

 

Due to this you also require copies of the following:

 

1. Complaints Policy (not the leaflet)

2. Customer Care Policy (not the leaflet)

3. Health & Safety Policy (not the leaflet)

4. Repairs & Maintenance Policy (not the leaflet)

5. Void Property Report for your property before you took tenancy.

6. Pre-Inspection Report for your property before you moved in.

(No. 6 above is important because if the disrepairs that are causing the rats to enter the tenant have reported are not in this report it question the standards of the Pre Inspection and use it against them)

 

Disrepair - infestations of pests and vermin: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/repairs-in-rented-housing/disrepair-common-problems/disrepair-infestations-of-pests-and-vermin/

 

Pests and vermin infestations in rented homes: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/pests_and_vermin_infestations_in_rented_homes

Edited by stu007

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Hi Stu,

 

Thanks for your input that the tenants will find very useful, I'm sure.

 

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The council will try and play hard ball that they have to pay but you fight it with the council housing side.

 

You use the council housings own policies and procedures against them, simply just think to yourself even when reading the policies I mentioned to ask for 'Did They Do That' if not highlight it as you go, you then have a list from there own policies and procedures to use against them.

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Hi Stu,

 

They could call by phone initially but, if the council fails to agree to get the rats sorted v quickly at the council's expense, then written comm'ns should follow - is that ok ?

 

After that, all comm'ns be by letter or is email ok ?

 

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Any phone communication if you can't record the call makes sure and follow it up with a letter in writing refering to the date and time of that specific call. (make sure and keep a log of all communication

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Thanks again

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Why haven't we been told which Council this is that it expects its tenants to live with rats?

Are you trying to protect them?

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Erm, this is someone we met in a DIY store and she asked for advice and I'm a bit of a Rodent Expert.

 

I don't want to disclose any detail until the tenant says that's ok.

 

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Hi slick

 

Completely understand have had that happen to myself a few times.

 

It would be useful though if we did know which council housing.

 

We need to remember and separate the council from council housing (yes it may still be council run but council housing is classed as social housing and the council housing should also be a Registered Social Landlord (RSL))

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