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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Sky Demanding Money From Ex Customer


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Hi all

 

I used to be with Sky for my phone & broadband,

I contacted them on the 4th April to see if they would do me a better deal as Virgin were offering me a deal that was £15 a month cheaper..

 

. The call centre drone I spoke with wasn't interested in retaining my custom after something like 16yrs and so I started the cancellation process.

 

This would take 2 weeks, my new provider would also notify them that they were taking over my phone number.

 

I paid for my service in advance at the end of March which means my account was up to date aside from any call charges right up to the end of my contract.nn

I have emails from Sky telling me that I am leaving and end date is the 20th April.

 

Virgin installed my cable phone line and service on the 19th April and I have been using that since then.

 

My sky modem was unplugged on the 19th too.

The emails from Sky state that they have received notification that my phone number is being taken over, that my service will end on the 20th April and the number would be transferred by the 29th April... I think it actually transferred about the 27th although I can't be exactly certain.

 

I then receive a letter telling me that my service was ending on the 1st may, in direct contradiction of the previous contact I had via email.

 

As I was already paid up until the end of April, I cancelled my DD so they couldn't 'accidentally' take payments they shouldn't and a figured that was the end of it.

 

Today I got a letter demanding payment of £46.99 and a threat of action plus a £7.50 'late' fee and informing me that my services have been suspended...

. quite what services they think they're suspending I have no idea as I've not been a customer since the 20th April.

 

I have not been notified of any final bill that's owed (by my calculations, there's actually a chance they owe me a little bit of a refund) there are no call charges to pay because I had their 24/7 free calls package which was paid in advance for the month.

 

.. even if I assume the worst and that my billing date (usually the last day of the month) is 2 weeks later than my billing cycle. that only means I may (and I stress may) be liable for 3 or 4 days service.

 

I have received no Final bill of any kind, the only contact is

 

A: them telling me the date of my contract end

B: Letters/Emails trying to get me to rejoin Sky

C: Letters demanding money after service has ended

 

I can find no contact email address for them and refuse to speak to them by phone as I'm not paying call charges (no longer free if not a sky customer) to try and get them to sort out their screw up. I can't even find an address for their complaints team.

 

If anyone has an address of their complaints dept, an email address that actually works or a freephone number I can call... Please let me know.

 

Additionally, any advice on how to deal with these incompetent nincompoops would be most welcome. I'm concerned that they may try and mess with my credit score because of their failings.

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Thanks for that, it didn't come up when I searched, only a number or their 'live' chat...

there's no email address I can find anywhere

... it's almost like they are making it as hard as possible for you to complain and retain a record of what's discussed.

 

Letter written and printed,

I also withdrew any and all consent for them to contact me in future with any marketing and withdrew any and all consent for my private and personal information being shared with any party regardless of affiliation.

 

So if they sell my info on after this date... potentially a breach of data protection laws. :)

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Hmm I wouldn't want to chance my arm on that!

 

They do, and will pass on your information, you signed a contract which gives them that ability, however, that isn't the issue.

 

Keep everything in writing, if they ring just tell, them that whatever they wish to convey can be committed in writing and hang up.

 

As with the majority of telecomms companies, they are poor at communicating anything over the phone, least of all communicating accurately!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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use live chat and your old account number

should be sorted in 2 mins this time of day.

 

 

you also get a printout to save of what was said and done.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hmm I wouldn't want to chance my arm on that!

 

They do, and will pass on your information, you signed a contract which gives them that ability, however, that isn't the issue.

 

Keep everything in writing, if they ring just tell, them that whatever they wish to convey can be committed in writing and hang up.

 

As with the majority of telecomms companies, they are poor at communicating anything over the phone, least of all communicating accurately!

 

 

 

By my understanding, they only had the right to use that information whilst they have my consent... that consent has now clearly been withdrawn... So any use of my personal information after the date of notification would technically be a breach of data protection.

 

I'm not a legal expert obviously... but surely It's not really that different from withdrawing implied right of access to a company (such as Capita TV license harassment) should you wish to stop uninvited and unwanted trespass on your property... and I apologise profusely for calling you Shirley. :)

 

 

How effective or binding it is.. I honestly have no real idea... just how I could prove that they sold on my details after the date of the letter is one thing, getting a body like the ICO to take up such a case is another... But precedent for this kind of thing needs to be set if it doesn't already exist. People need to be able to take control of their personal information...

 

Anyway... we've gone way of topic Shirley :p

 

 

Letter was posted... we'll see what response it gets to the original issue.

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The WOIRA (removal of implied rights of access) isn't really legally binding AFAIK, although FMOTL will say otherwise, yes it can be used, but any breach of it, would mean you taking out a claim for a tort of trespass, but I wouldn't like to waste money on that.

 

It's so much easier to either ''put wood back in t'ole'' or simply not answer the door in the first place, after all, it's your home, you control who you want to answer the door to.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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