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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Co-op Current account/Personal Loan merged upon default.


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Ive decided to nip this is the bud before it spirals out of control.

 

Lowells wrote to me...again today (the usual junk).

 

Ive been looking at similar threads but can't find anything.

 

When my account was defaulted back in 2009,

i had a loan with them,

they plonked the personal loan into the current account and piled it all together, totalling around £4300.

 

The account number Lowells have supplied corresponds to my old current account.

 

I'd like to know how exactly it added up to that much.

 

I have read that i can't send a CCA?

 

I sent off for a SAR a about 6 weeks ago,

i received a response about 2 weeks later that they couldn't find anything within 6 years.

 

They needed account numbers, previous addresses and needed me to sign the SAR,

i have done so and returned it to them today recorded delivery.

 

I'd like to get Lowells dealt with before they even pick up momentum.

 

Thanks :-)

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You can send a CCA to Lowell as there was a Loan involved.

Coop in theory shouldnt have merged the 2 accounts but they have.

 

Raise a complaint with Lowell if you are unhappy as I would imagine they now OWN the debt.

Check your credit file and see what appears on it.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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You can send a CCA to Lowell as there was a Loan involved.

Coop in theory shouldnt have merged the 2 accounts but they have.

 

Raise a complaint with Lowell if you are unhappy as I would imagine they now OWN the debt.

Check your credit file and see what appears on it.

Didn't think of that. It says current account on Noddle.

In theory, if it owes that much on a current account would that be overdrawn?

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The letters I received (2 of for 2 different debts with them, both identically worded).

 

We want to help you clear your account.

 

We know it can be hard managing your finances and we are willing to be flexible with you. However we do need to hear from you so that we can set up an arrangement and prevent any further action taking place.

 

This debt is not going to go away and ignoring the problem could make things worse for you. We have said in previous we require payment in full or if you cannot shots to pay it off in one go you can pay monthly.

 

Pay from £1 per day.

 

On so on ....

 

Bearing in mind the last 2 identical letters I received were from them 3 months ago saying they were escalating the accounts to their legal department (Hamptons).

 

 

I'm currently defending another account they via Bryan Carter, not sure if they know this? (Claim has been issued and I've refused their consent).

 

I've not bothered to contact any creditors in 3 years or more.

 

Do I issue them with CCA's just to shoot them down at range?

 

I racked up a lot of debt back in 2007 and lost track of anything. I want proof of what is what.

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Point out the merging of the accounts to Ms Sara de Tute Director of legal and compliance at the Lowell Group.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Point out the merging of the accounts to Ms Sara de Tute Director of legal and compliance at the Lowell Group.

I don't have any proof of this. I just vaguely remember this happening I think.

The account numbers are the same as my old current account, I know this because I still have my very first debit card.

 

I did consider sending the "prove it letter".

Wanted to seek advice off you guys before proceeding.

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Yes send the prove it letter, remember to refer to "the alleged debt" and do not acknowledge any liability, send to Ms de Tute.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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Yes send the prove it letter, remember to refer to "the alleged debt" and do not acknowledge any liability, send to Ms de Tute.

I'll get that typed up later :-)

 

Regarding the other identical letter I received for an old credit card, would that call for a CCA or prove it?

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If you know what they are begging for, and it is a CC (pre2007) then you could send them a CCA request, using whatever reference/account number they have quoted.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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The merging of two entirely separate accounts, which fall under totally different parts of the CCA, and will have different T&C's is a definite no non.

The FCA would take a very dim view of this, and if they were ever dumb enough to con a judge into attempting to enforce this, then he wouldn't be too pleased either when it is pointed out to him.

 

I would just be demanding the CCA under whatever ref/account number they have quoted, and see how far they get with that.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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The prove it letter went out today altered to suit me. Went 2nd class recorded.

Let's see where it goes.

My second SAR is in progress so I'll see where that ends up.

I'll be requesting the CCA I think once she replies.

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  • 2 weeks later...
The prove it letter went out today altered to suit me. Went 2nd class recorded.

Let's see where it goes.

My second SAR is in progress so I'll see where that ends up.

I'll be requesting the CCA I think once she replies.

I think it's got lost?

 

Item ABCD1234 was posted at "your local store" on 15/04/14 and is being progressed through our network for delivery.

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I think it's got lost?

 

Item ABCD1234 was posted at "your local store" on 15/04/14 and is being progressed through our network for delivery.

A thought did you use an address for Lowell with a PO Box number? There is always a problem with RD letters when these are used with Lowell also with 2nd Class RD delivery will be affected by the bank hols.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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A thought did you use an address for Lowell with a PO Box number? There is always a problem with RD letters when these are used with Lowell also with 2nd Class RD delivery will be affected by the bank hols.

 

In my experience, it's a euphemism for, "we think that we have lost it, but it could be that we delivered it, but couldn't be @rsed to get a signature, after all, you're only a customer, in truth we don't know, and don't care"

 

I have a pile of slips here, that have brought the same result

 

Sam

All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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A thought did you use an address for Lowell with a PO Box number? There is always a problem with RD letters when these are used with Lowell also with 2nd Class RD delivery will be affected by the bank hols.

I took the address from this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?400441-Unknown-default-from-Three

 

Address:

 

Private & Confidential

For The Personal Attention of

Ms Sarah de Tute

Director of Legal & Compliance

The Lowell Group

Enterprise House

1 Apex View

Leeds

LS11 9BH

 

Suppose its had 6 working days.

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Another possible alternative:

 

What would happen if the loan was paid using the current account, leaving the current account overdrawn and the loan paid?

 

I'm going to give the letter til the end of the week, if no response of signs of delivery i'm just fire off a CCA request.

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This happened to me with a HSBC account.

 

I did a SAR but it wasn't particularly illuminating.

 

I can only assume that they used their right to set off the balance of the loan to the current account (effectively they paid the loan off).

 

I have yet to see case law or a good explanation of why this is a no-no (although I have seen a lot of opinions from some very well experienced and qualified people). I have been trying to find this information in a format that could be used in a defence to a claim.

 

In my case, the sum demanded from the DCA contained the whole of the balance of an account covered by the relevant sections of the CCA , so I requested a copy of the agreement and the notice of assignment so that I could confirm the sum demanded and their legal right to do so. They failed on both counts.

 

I disputed the "account". Unsurprisingly, they have not been able to resolve my dispute.

 

Another possible alternative:

 

What would happen if the loan was paid using the current account, leaving the current account overdrawn and the loan paid?

 

I'm going to give the letter til the end of the week, if no response of signs of delivery i'm just fire off a CCA request.

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I have yet to see case law or a good explanation of why this is a no-no (although I have seen a lot of opinions from some very well experienced and qualified people). I have been trying to find this information in a format that could be used in a defence to a claim.

 

So have I !

 

Pretty much it can be argued that, a Loan has it's own T&C's with it's own interest rate, whereas an Overdraft, will have a completely different set of T&C's and interest rate.

 

So to amalgamate them both together without your knowledge would leave you at a serious disadvantage, and this would be deemed unfair practices using BCOBS, or if a credit card has been lumped in with an overdraft it would be questionable under COBS.

 

Plus it goes without saying that if they have fabricated a new acco8unt number, then any request for the CCA using that Acct number will be impossible to provide, not only that you will be able to show that you a) didn't sign the agreement, b) Knew nothing of it until they merged two separate account and gave it a new Acct number.

 

The reason that there is no case Law regarding this, is simply because they have been caught out prior to issuing legal proceedings and their legal teams have advised that they should indeed separate the accounts and chase individually, this is especially important when they have merged accounts to bring the total balance above £750. (The BR threshold)

 

That's my opinion on it, well how I see it, hopefully I'm not too far from the truth?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Well the account number in question relates to the old current account.

 

I'm awaiting the second shot at the SAR, and the first response from the SAR is that because so much time had passed, nothing was available.

 

Do i send a repeat "prove it" to Ms De Tute as i don't think the first will arrive, or just send a CCA request?

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No I would wait, let sleeping dogs lie.

 

The longer they take to respond simply shows just how 'urgent' and 'important' these issues really are.

 

Letter tennis is tedious and expensive.

 

As for SAR's 40 Calender days in which to comply, or it gets escalated to the ICO for investigation.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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No I would wait, let sleeping dogs lie.

 

The longer they take to respond simply shows just how 'urgent' and 'important' these issues really are.

 

Letter tennis is tedious and expensive.

 

As for SAR's 40 Calender days in which to comply, or it gets escalated to the ICO for investigation.

*IF* the letter has actually been received. I want at least one letter on their desk.

At least if i send a CCA it has a countdown timer with it?

 

Opinion?

 

SAR #2 has been 14 days.

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So did get a response from the "prove it letter" today, and i send the CCA letter yesterday :lol:

 

Pretty generic letter, not even from MS De Tute, pffffft.

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us recently.

 

I confirm that your complaint has now been passed to the customer relations department who will carry out a thorough investigation. We will investigate this as quickly as possible as we can but we may need to contact you for further information or to provide you with an update. (Oh really, you bought the "debt", and you hassle me, and yet you need me to provide you with info. You guys need to get things in order before you start these things)

 

If we can contact you by telephone, we will be able to discuss your concerns directly with you and hopefully agree a resolution with you verbally (yeah and thats as good as the paper its written on). This is the quickest and easiest way for us to resolve this for you.

 

I would like to assure you that the account will be place on hold, and we will stop all collections activity whilst dealing with your complaint.

 

We enclose a copy of our internal complaints procedure for your information. Please take your time to read this, as it explains fully the steps we will follow in responding to your complaint.

 

In the meantime, if you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact my team by calling the free.....yes free! telephone number which brings you directly through to the customer relations department.

 

Questions:

 

Will receiving the CCA letter this week affect this response?

 

And i have another "proof letter" winging its way to just Lowells P.O Box this week, i assume that i'll just get a repeat response of this?

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Tim... who is the complaints advisor here who is dealing with it?

Id give them a little chance here, I actually think Lowell's CR is reasonable for what Lowell are.

 

But also i agree that it should be kept in writing :), But like i said they did wonders for me :)

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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