Sorry DN=default notice.

I have reported it and asked admin to remove it, if you go into edit just remove the attachment . I hope you don't hate your name as much as I hate it, I use the 3 letter version instead

I want to see what wording they use. SPecifically what parts of it breach OFT guidance so we can send them a nice complaint to put the debt into deadlock and get the FOS involved, as well as a complaint through the BCCA.

It wouldnt be the wisest of moves for them to try and take "further action" whatever that is meant to be if you have your back covered.

Sadly renegade I think it is pretty standard DN however it is bad because of the dates and not allowing time for remedy

I would go on the additional charges and refusal to accept payplan. No doubt Swanleyboy was bullied into setting up an unaffordable payment plan, lets hope there are some records that can be used to show that

Maybe be. But id still like to see what they have said. Especially since they arent taking the debtors financial circumstances into consideration. Plus theyre threatening this, that and the other.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47019[/ATTACH]

There we go. Hopefully no personal stuff now.

So you are clear - I did make an arrangement to pay £50 which I did for a few months but it was too much. I then decided to bite the bullet and all Payplan who then added them to my DMP - that I have had for 10 years.

Just need to know how/where to go from now.

Really appreciate the time and effort you are taking.

Ok all is good now so have tidied the thread too.

Hi

Me again

You sound a lot like me, even down to the name

What you need to do is send a CCA request to each of your creditors. One for each account. You have held these for a long time so I am guessing that they were all taken out prior to 2007. There is a fair chance that some if not all the agreements will either be unenforceable or they will not be able to find them.

The other option if you have no assets is BR. If you are working it costs about £700 if you are on benefits £525. Of course as a bankrupt there are some jobs you can not do...anything within the financial industry for a start. I can suggest options but can only tell you my experience

What do you make of the letter? Way forward?

Hey Fletch,

I am not going BR. I have a decent job. Simply got myself into s**t and trying to sort it out. I can afford life but only just.

If a CCA request comes back as they can't find the info then what? You simply stop paying them? All my debt is with Payplan now - other than WDA.

There will be a time that I can pay off my debt - and hopefully not too far in the future so I am not going fro an IVA, BR etc.

Hey Fletch,

I am not going down the BR route. I have assets. I have a job. I can just about pay bills. Everything now with Payplan other than WDA.

If I send a CCA request and it comes back that they cannot find it etc - what then? You just stop paying?

If a CCA request comes back that is either incomplete or they can not find one you stop paying. After 6 years the debt becomes statute barred and can not be chased. I imagine that all your defaults (apart from the PDL's ) have come off your credit file and can not be added.

In my case I have about 45K and although I have no job and no assets I haven't paid a penny in 18 months. A couple came back saying they couldn't find the agreement, a few came back that did not contain all the prescribed terms and as such can never be put right and some have come back with incomplete details (now they can be put right by getting it right, but I ain't telling what they have doe wrong)

One example is a credit card where they reduced the interest to 0 but because the default was bad the termination was bad so they should have sent me the varied terms that put the interest rate to 0. I know its a technicality but so what.

I have learnt a lot from various people on various forums and had a lot of support. I am not allowed to PM because i was a bit naughty in the past but that is behind me now

I am not sure what funds you are planning to use to pay off your debts, just when the time comes make reduced offers , or at least i would if I were you.

Oh when you stop paying, I didn't just stop but I sent letters saying this is unenforceable because it is ......or it is UE because you have not complied with my S78 request. Fair bit of letter ping pong for a while then it calmed down, just the odd one now

You know my view, see what renegade says.

I haven't heard from WDA for a good while now

Just waiting for that letter to be posted, then ill write you up a nice letter to send them.

Edit: Gimme a few

At a glance, theyre saying they are adding on unenforceable charges. It also looks more like a story than an actual default notice

Also, why the hell are they talking about asking a court for more time to pay? Breach of OFT guidance right there for misleading information.

One other question. WOuld this default notice have been served if they didnt add on the charges and interest that accrued purely because they refuse to negotiate a repayment plan with you?

Renegade

I believe the line you are calling a breach of OFT guidelines is actually a line that needs to be included. It is on every DN that I have had and boy have I had a few. OFT1002 S6.2 I would upload the attachment but I can't.

6.2 The requirements are set out in the Consumer Credit (Enforcement,

Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.49 In particular, the

default notice must indicate:50

• the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement

• the action needed to remedy the breach or to compensate the

creditor, and the date by which this must be done

• the consequences of failure to comply with the notice

• the action intended to be taken by the creditor in the event of noncompliance

• the procedures relating to the recovery of goods under a hirepurchase

or conditional sale agreement

• a statement indicating the debtor's right to apply to the court for a

time order, giving more time to repay the debt

• prescribed wording regarding sources of help or advice.

I am not sure that the charges for debt collection are unenforceable, all OFT664 Rev says on the matter is in 3.1 that they should not be inappropriate or unfair, obviously subjective but my opinion would be that £25 was neither unless of course you can tell me differently.

3.1 This chapter identifies matters that the OFT considers to be unfair or

improper business practices for the purposes of section 25(2A)(e) of

the Act. These are set out under the following sub-headings:

• Communication: businesses should communicate in a clear,

accurate and transparent manner

• False representation of authority and/or legal position:

businesses should accurately and truthfully represent their

authority/status and the correct legal position with regard to

debts and the debt recovery process

• Physical/psychological harassment: businesses should not

engage in physical or psychological harassment of debtors, or

relevant third parties

• Deceptive and/or unfair methods: businesses should be truthful

and fair in their dealings with debtors and others

• Charging for debt recovery: charges should not be levied

inappropriately or unfairly

• Debt collection visits: those visiting debtors must not act in a

threatening or unclear manner

• Statute barred debt: businesses should not use unfair methods

(including misrepresenting the legal position) if seeking to

recover statute barred debt

• Data accuracy: businesses should have appropriate processes in

place with a view to ensuring that customer data is accurate

and take reasonable steps to ensure that it is adequate, with a

view to only the actual debtor and valid debts being pursued for

repayment.

OFT664Rev

I still believe that the best course of action is using the fact they will not recognise payplan and the possible bullying to gain a repayment plan that was unaffordable and inappropriate considering the OP is paying under £200 on 60K of debt

It may be included but coupled with the rest of it, it is a breach. They state it BEFORE any consequences are noted, which is where the violation happens. They shoudlnt even mention asking courts for more time to pay if it hasnt gone anywhere near one or they havent even won the case.

We've seen a few PDL's use it and successfully challenged the DN a number of times. Each case is on its own merits though.

Well I have to say that if I were writing a DN and using the guidelines as shown above it would be included. I agree that some PDL's do indeed issue invalid DN's (minicredit being one) and this one is bad because of the dates . Have the successful challenges been on that particular point or generally non compliant DN's?

I really do not know how else to interpret the OFT guidelines

6.2 The requirements are set out in the Consumer Credit (Enforcement,

Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.49 In particular, the

default notice must indicate:50

• the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement

• the action needed to remedy the breach or to compensate the

creditor, and the date by which this must be done

• the consequences of failure to comply with the notice

• the action intended to be taken by the creditor in the event of noncompliance

• the procedures relating to the recovery of goods under a hirepurchase

or conditional sale agreement

• a statement indicating the debtor's right to apply to the court for a

time order, giving more time to repay the debt

• prescribed wording regarding sources of help or advice.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1561/schedule/2/crossheading/time-order/made

I saw that, but surely it should be " IF we are granted a judgement then you have the right to apply to the court for a time order".

The way they have worded it makes it sound like an order has already been granted against the debtor.

I have added a link that gives the prescribed wording . I agree it sounds a bit odd but there it is in black and white.

That actually does sound very strange. Why put that if no court order has been applied for?

I never said the law wasn't an ass but if we use it well we can hang the financial institutions out to dry

Hi renegadeimp,

Have you had a look at the letter yet? What do you think?

Really appreciate all the help and conversations this is provoking but really need to know how to proceed. Once again, sincerest thanks for the effort and time.

Hi Swanleyboy

Sorry if things got a bit sidetracked. In my opinion the way forward is to argue about any excess charges and also OFT guidelines about using 3rd parties

Can I ask a few saliant points

1. How much did you originally owe ( the amount that would have been needed to pay off the whole debt on the day it became due)

2.How much have you paid off either yourself or through payplan

3. How was the figure of £50 arrived at, did you make that as an initial offer or was that what they said they needed as a minimum

4. Did you ever send in an I&E . I assume that Payplan have done one for you which is how they settled on the figure you pay them

From that you can make a factual complaint that has validity and will de difficult for them to argue with (although knowing them , they will argue)