Excellent site guys, I spent a few hours reading through posts last night.

I am having a similar experience with the DVLA (and Philips Bailiffs in my case) for what I consider to be an unreasonable fine, with nobody prepared to listen to logic or reason. I sold my car last year and sent in the V5. I didn’t hear anything further until August this year, when I received a “Notice of Instruction” letter from Philips claiming I had failed to pay a late licencing penalty on the vehicle from March 2012. The letter came with scary threats to pay £80 now, or face fines of more than £1000.

Luckily I sold the car to a friend, so took a copy of the V5 and sent that (with new owner named from 23/09/11). They are saying they cant accept that, and want to see the confirmation letter from DVLA that I notified them. I cant remember if I got the letter, but wouldn’t have kept if for more than 6 months even if I did.

It was late being taxed (by my friend) but he did tax it in April, and has paid a penalty to backdate it to March already.

It seems that this is different in that the fine for continuous licencing may be a legal one, but it shouldn’t be issued twice on the same car.

I’m going to send of another letter to the DVLA to see what they say. But if it is pushed further, any thoughts on the result if it goes to court?

Cheers,

Craig.

Ignore the bailiffs. They have very little regard for the law in most cases and exist solely to get easy and extortionate fees.

You are doing the right thing. Get in touch with the DVLA and check. The new owner should have the V5 anyway so its very simple to prove that its not you.

Can i ask, is phillips acting as bailiffs or as a DCA? AS they cannot threaten fines, as it goes directly against their licence, as well as them not being in a position to add fines.

Hi Renegadeimp, thanks for your reply. I have emailed DVLA with a scanned copy of the V5, so will wait to see what they say. But my initial correspondence that just stated I had sold the vehicle was pushed back saying to deal with Philips.

Not sure what they are acting as. They letter is titled “Notice of Instruction” with “regarding: Late Licensing Penalty on behalf of DVLA”.

I’ll try to upload a copy of the text, but traveling at the moment, so will just be a phone photo job.

Thanks again,

Craig.

DVLA are known for trying to get money out of people for no reason.

Thats a weird letter. Its saying that they are taking bailiff action (clamping) but the only future action would be you getting a CCJ.

Yeah, I don’t really understand it… but I think they are just trying to put as many scary things in (i.e. £1000 fine, CCJ and clamping) to try to scare people into just paying the £80.

Sounds like they are not actually able to do any of these things (especially clamping as they wont find the car at that address – as it has been sold).

Not sure if it’s illegal, but it certainly doesn’t seem right to me.

Thats what bailiffs and indeed DCA's do. They threaten everything possible to scare you into paying.

That letter from the DCA appears to be illegal. They keep saying that you "must pay" but that isn't technically true since there is no judgement against you and, as a result, there are several other avenues available to you besides paying them. Of course they don't make mention of these other avenues because they know that this may result in them not getting paid!

The threats made regarding clamping are completely untrue and I would suggest that they have no legal right to clamp the vehicle at this stage of proceedings - this appears to be a fairly clear breach of industry guidelines.

You may find this document useful....

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/debt-letters.pdf

You'll see that the DCA appears to have broken quite a few of the rules and as such I suggest that an official complaint is in order to their regulator or to the OFT. One also has to ask why a Government body such as the DVLA is in bed with such an organisation.

With regard to your case...

If the DVLA listen (and put matters right) then all well and good. My advice is not to get into a long winded series of letters between you and them, you are only wasting your time (as well has highlighting your potential defence if the matter did come to court.) If your explanation to them doesn't do the trick then let them proceed to court where you will be able to make them look like complete fools. Simply write to the DVLA stating that you informed them of the change of Keeper at the correct time and therefore you consider that you are not liable for a LLP on a vehicle which was no longer yours.

N.

I am having a similar problem with the DVLA and Philips the Bailiffs, I scrapped a car and sent off the relevant documentation, it was the first time I had scrapped a car, I also don't recall receiving the confirmation and thought no more of it, I didn't receive any reminder about taxing the car as I would have got back in contact with them and reinforced that I had scrapped the car. Philips are sending me letters stating I owe eighty pounds for failing to tax my car. I have sent a letter to the DVLA stating when I scrapped the car. I have never been in any trouble of this sort and I have owned many cars in my time. I have two cars and I have tried to explain to the DVLA and Philips that I received no notification about any tax reminder for the car, any ideas or advice how I continue this.

The scrap dealer was one of those billboards with a mobile number, I have phoned but he denies he took the car and said it was an other dealer who took it

Sounds like instead of scrapping it, its been bodged up and is still on the road somewhere. Possibly in your name.

I realise that, I have received a letter of confirmation from the DVLA after once informing them I no longer own the car, but what can I do about the fine?, do I pay or do I contest the fact I did scrap it, I have never had any issues with taxing my car before and I can't believe the DVLA won't accept I'm telling the truth, I even stated why would I run the risk of incurring a fine when I have two cars at the moment both taxed

I realise that, I have received a letter of confirmation from the DVLA after once informing them I no longer own the car, but what can I do about the fine?, do I pay or do I contest the fact I did scrap it, I have never had any issues with taxing my car before and I can't believe the DVLA won't accept I'm telling the truth, I even stated why would I run the risk of incurring a fine when I have two cars at the moment both taxed

Basically you need to be 100% certain of the dates involved. Was the car still taxed when you scrapped the car? If so then you would appear to be in the clear. It could be that the DVLA are claiming a period of non tax (or SORN) between the date that the tax expired and the date that you informed them that the vehicle had been scrapped. It seems odd that the DVLA have acknowledged the scrapping of the car but then sent a LLP.

Sorry I should make it clear, I sent a letter of two weeks ago reiterating that I no longer own the car and it was scrapped, and I have just received the confirmation. My argument is as I owned two cars and I keep them at my parents's house as they have a garage, where I live on the main road I wouldn't trust my cars out there, they only live a couple of miles away and it brings the insurance down as well. One of my cars I always receive a reminder here at my home address, but the other goes to my parents's house which I have never fully understood as my license clearly states my home address, is there any way around this as I know for 100% that I didn't receive a reminder and I clearly wouldn't have ignored it.Yes the car was taxed when it was scrapped

You haven't answered the question! Was the car still taxed when you scrapped the car? Which section of the V5 did you send to the DVLA?

One of my cars I always receive a reminder here at my home address, but the other goes to my parents's house which I have never fully understood as my license clearly states my home address,

Your address on your licence is irrelavent with regards to a VED reminder. This reminder can only be sent to the address as held on the V5C for that particular car. I assume, therefore, that you have one V5 showing your home address, and the other car's V5 showing your parents address.

Call Northampton County Court Bulk Center they deal with these,if you have the the Confirmation letter confirming when it was transfered they may well ask for a copy to be sent to confirm sale /scrap date and you can lodge an appeal

Its saying that they are taking bailiff action (clamping)

Should be interesting, watching them clamp a car that the OP doesn't have.

Call Northampton County Court Bulk Center they deal with these,if you have the the Confirmation letter confirming when it was transfered they may well ask for a copy to be sent to confirm sale /scrap date and you can lodge an appeal

The bulk centre deals with money claim online and traffic enforcement matters.

The DVLA Late Licensing Penalty is dealt with at a 'normal' County Court.

Hi again, well back from the holidays, so thought I’d update this. DVLA just say deal with Philips. I’ve sent a couple emails to Philips, but while I was away, the letters kept coming. Now up to “COURT WARNING – FINAL NOTICE” saying:

Several avenues have now become available to us to clear your arrears.

County Court Summons/Judgment (being made against your person) and/or

1 Statutory Demand (against yourself)

2 Charging Order (against property you may own)

3 Attachment of Earnings/Benefits (against your income)

4 Bankruptcy petition

Goodness me! So I sent them this:

Good morning, I’m a little confused by this. I thought this was a penalty for late licensing, not failing to inform of change of ownership? Can you please clarify?

As for not updating their records, I did send off the V5C form via royal mail (which I believe is my legal requirement). I’m sure I did this and willing to sign a statutory declaration to this effect as I sold the car to a friend, and wanted to ensure the ownership changed smoothly. I have an email to him (with response) asking for details to complete the V5C form.

I also confirmed with him that he had received his V5C form, indicating to me that the DVLA had updated their records for this vehicle. I’m not sure how they can claim to hold 2 people responsible for the same vehicle at the same time!? He was late paying his tax on this vehicle for March 2012, and I have the receipt from the enforcement section for payment of the arrears.

I’m unsure of my legal responsibility to have received and kept the acknowledgement letter, could you please identify this for me?

I feel the language and threats you have used in your correspondence have been in breach of the CSA & DBSG guidelines.

Kind regards,

To which the responded:

Thank you for your email

We have noted the account with the information provided

We can advise that the fine is for not updating the DVLA records and receiving a acknowledgement letter within the 28days as stated on the log book.

On the V5 it states on receipt of notification of keeper chhange.DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks confirming that the keeper has been changed.you should keep the letter as a recipt in the event that you recieve further correspondence concering the vehicle.

All letters are approved by the DVLA before being sent out we can advise CSA & DBSG guidelines are only for consumer credit regulated debt only which this case is not.

You can call the office on 0844 800 4588 to make payment of the £80.

Kind regards

Philips

Interesting they say CSA & DBSG guidelines don’t apply to them… I wonder if the law applies? I’m also ‘impressed’ that they can just “advise that the fine is for not updating the DVLA records” (rather than late licensing at this point in a debt recovery procedure?

Anyway, off for the weekend, and will look at this next week.

Hope you enjoy your weekends.

Cheers.

TO OP !

So they now think they can fine you?

WRITE BACK.

Please take this matter straight to court so I can issue a counter claim for damages due to harassment.

firstly you mention that you have "fined" me for not receiving a letter you posted.

Issuing fines is outside of your jurisdiction, you are authorised to issue penalty notices only, your attempt to claim you have fined me an action which can only be made a magistrate or judge are duly noted.

Issued documents provided are a copy of the V5 registration certificate obtained from the current keeper that clearly shows the date of transfer of current keeper.

This limits my liability for any penalty to that date and not beyond.

I am not at liberty to point out or prove your failings in this matter, this is your job !

This is my final offer for you to apologise, call off your bailiffs and put right your mal administration, I would also welcome an offer of compensation for the stress and harassment you have caused.

If no satisfactory reply is received within 7 days to this matter as I am currently been harassed by your bailiffs I shall make a full compliant to the Government Ombudsman scheme as well as issue proceedings for harassment against DVLA and your bailiffs in the county court.

Hi Vax2002, thanks for the reply, but I’m not sure I’ve got the balls to go in with that. Although I do like what you’ve done with it. I have heard that they aren’t authorised to issue fines, which is nice. Although they do state they can issue a penalty for not informing them of sale – so that may be valid after the change of current keeper (although a year after is pushing it?). And as I have stated, I did meet their requirements of sending in the V5C form (which has been argued on several threads here). They have processed the change of ownership… Which raises the question, if they didn’t hear from me, why did they proceed to issue a V5C form to another person!?

I would like to know if they have any guidelines for their Collection correspondence!? If so, I’m guessing they have breached them – if not, why not?

Might do a little more research into the Parliamentary Ombudsman over the weekend and draft something for Monday.

Cheers,

Craig.

I sent of an email to DVLA complaining about the DCA’s behaviour (see below) and got this back:

“If you have received a notice from a debt collectors agency, this is now out of our hands. You will need to raise any questions that you have with regards to the penalty with them.”

OUT OF THEIR HANDS!?

Impressively not answering any of my questions… I'm thinking I might go with some individual questions, just to see if I can get an answer. Starting with a request for DCA guidelines (as normal guidelines don’t apply).

Here is the email I sent, explaining my situation and raising issues with the DCA - if you can be bothered reading it, I’m guessing the DVLA couldn’t…

Sent DVLA 15/10/12

Hello, I’ve tried explaining my situation to the debt collection agency, but they seem to now think they can change the penalty for late licensing to a “fine” for not updating the DVLA records, while continuing to threaten the following actions:

County Court Summons/Judgment (being made against your person) and/or

1 Statutory Demand (against yourself)

2 Charging Order (against property you may own)

3 Attachment of Earnings/Benefits (against your income)

4 Bankruptcy petition.

I would like to know if you have any guidelines for their Collection correspondence!? If not, why not? And if there is somewhere I can escalate a complaint?

I would like to point out, that the DVLA records have been updated (I have the V5C for the new keeper, dated 23/09/11)

Could you please explain to me, if you didn’t receive the notification, why you have issued the V5C to another person, and why I didn’t receive a reminder for tax renewal in March?

I did send off the V5C form via royal mail (which I believe is my legal requirement). I’m sure I did this and willing to sign a statutory declaration to this effect as I sold the car to a friend, and wanted to ensure the ownership changed smoothly. I have an email to him (with response) asking for details to complete the V5C form.

I also confirmed with him that he had received his V5C form, indicating to me that the DVLA had updated their records for this vehicle. I’m not sure how you can claim to hold 2 people responsible for the same vehicle at the same time!? He was late paying his tax on this vehicle for March 2012, and I have the receipt from the enforcement section for payment of the arrears.

Don't worry about DCAs.

They have absolutely no power to do anything, bar asking you to pay.

Just an update for anybody following this, since the final demand letter back in October, I haven’t heard anything…

Guess they don’t think they really have a case, but they’re happy to try their luck with threatening letters.

Guess they don’t think they really have a case, but they’re happy to try their luck with threatening letters.

Rather like TV Licensing.

Don't get me started on tv licensing:roll: