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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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ESA medical UPDATE post #30


phil76
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Thankyou, yeah it is i dont have to worry about if doctor will give me a sick note or not,what would happen next? would i have another assessment at a later date and how often do they want to see you?

 

I just hope i can start feeling well again soon

 

Thanks

 

Phil

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Thankyou, yeah it is i dont have to worry about if doctor will give me a sick note or not,what would happen next? would i have another assessment at a later date and how often do they want to see you?

 

I just hope i can start feeling well again soon

 

Thanks

 

Phil

 

Whilst you now don't have to produce anymore sick notes, there will come a time when you will be re-assessed. In my case re-assessment is every 3 months. I too am in the Support Group and quite rightly expect to be reviewed at regular intervals, just in case I fail to notify the DWP that I get better.

 

The only drawback is having to fill out those ESA50 forms with up dated information every time, and have the assessment.

 

With the odds stacked against a 'win' at the assessment (sometimes you can fail completely even though three months earlier you went straight into the Support Group), I prefer to keep my 6 monthly sick notes up to date. I get 2 a year and send them in to the DWP even though they say they don't want them. With four re-assessments a year I am likely to fail two of them! Law of averages!!!

 

I do it this way because I don't fancy trying to convince my GP every few months to start issuing them after a failure whilst waiting to go to the Tribunal appeal.

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Whilst you now don't have to produce anymore sick notes, there will come a time when you will be re-assessed. In my case re-assessment is every 3 months. I too am in the Support Group and quite rightly expect to be reviewed at regular intervals, just in case I fail to notify the DWP that I get better.

 

The only drawback is having to fill out those ESA50 forms with up dated information every time, and have the assessment.

 

With the odds stacked against a 'win' at the assessment (sometimes you can fail completely even though three months earlier you went straight into the Support Group), I prefer to keep my 6 monthly sick notes up to date. I get 2 a year and send them in to the DWP even though they say they don't want them. With four re-assessments a year I am likely to fail two of them! Law of averages!!!

 

I do it this way because I don't fancy trying to convince my GP every few months to start issuing them after a failure whilst waiting to go to the Tribunal appeal.

 

Ok thanks for the info:-)

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Hi everyone,

don't be put off , I had an esa medical by ATOS in february last year, I was and still suffering with severe back problems and due to have surgery this month. I suffer with spinal canal stenosis and scoliosis of the spine together with misplaced discs which gives severe back and leg pain with instances of pins and needles and numbness in legs, back, and groin.

The medical was a farce, the doctor would not look at any off my medical notes from my doctor or neuro-surgeon, he just asked a few questions .

he then asked me to lie on a couch and lift my bad leg which i couldn't without his help and also to squat down and then rise and i had to ask for his help because i was in agony.

He ignored my request to put spinal stenosis on his report.

He put backache and said it was easier to understand.

Needless to say in may I received a letter from the esa saying my benefit would stop and was fit for work

I appealed and asked for a copy of my medical report which scored me zero, and was full of conflicting evidence, missing out my symptoms, the tablets I was taking etc, he even said that he had done a thorough medical of my back.

I didn't even take my sweater off because i wasnt examined.

I sent the appeal back together with my notes on the medical report and lo and behold I was denied again and told if I wanted to take it further it would be a tribunal.

So I did and game them the same medical evidence I had and was told the tribunal would be in november but eventually a date was given for february 9th this year.

I passed this time with a score off 18, at the medical it was 0 and was told all extra money due to me from last year would be re-imbursed which is around £1000.

So if you have any medical evidence whatsoever, from doctor, surgeon, physio etc send it in to the tribunal, ask your doctor as well to write a personal letter on your behalf and forward that to the tribunal as well.

All I want now is my spinal operation and to recuperate and i now know the esa won't be on my " back" every few months.

I will get regular reviews after the operation but the judge at the tribunal said it would be through my surgeon and doctor

 

good luck everybody

 

John

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  • 6 months later...

Hello everyone dont know if you remember me but i suffer with anxiety and depression had this for a while now and had my first medicak back in january i think it was,had another medical last week and this time have failed :( this has really made me feel really low again,im going to appeal because i still suffer the same problems,do you think i have much chance of winning appeal and will i still get any money while appealing? thanks

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Assuming its ESA you're claiming, your payments should resume soon after your appeal form is received.

 

It is difficult to know whether you have a chance of winning, it depends on so many things, like how well you can show the ATOS assessment did not adequestely assess you, what medical evidence you can collect and how well it relates to the descriptors you meet - indeed whether you actually meet enough descriptors to score 15 points or meet the exceptional circumstances criteria. Also how consistent you have been through ESA50, ATOS assessment and Tribunal, and whether you do well at presenting your case on the day, and how receptive the Tribunal are on the day.

 

Without more info, its impossible to say - all we can say is we're here to help.

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Do they not realise by stopping people's money they make us feel alot worse than we already do? I already have high anxiety/depression without worrying about my money being stopped and now I feel alot worse because of the letter I received today :( :(

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