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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Need help writing an appeal letter urgently.


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Hello all.

This is my first time and please be kind and help me write this letter.

 

I recently was dismissed form a job I love because I went abroad to look after my dieing mum. I am so emotional about it all I am having difficulty in conveying how I feel in a manner that doesn't aggravate my stands with the company. And I am none wiser as to how to write the letter. If I write the just of the case could someone kindly compose it for me. Many thanks in advance.

 

1. I am not after my job any more but I don't want to have the gross misconduct record.

2. I had informed my manager why I was leaving and where I was going too. to which I was asked to keep them updated.

3. I did try to keep them updated via my sister and colleague yet I was told that wasn't good enough and in hindsight I could have written a letter but didn't have the means to email. Please bear in mind that my mum was diagnosed with Cancer and because she wasn't able to get the treatment where she was I have had to move her to another country where I didn't have anyone nor do I speak the local language)

4. In any case I am not asking for my job back all I am saying is because the company is very large should I want to work for the same company ever again this will be on my record moreover I was one of the highly thought worker for the 18months I was there and that they are happy to give me a good reference because of it.

5. Had I known the gravity of the issue at hand I would have gone in with my resignation letter than to be dismissed.

I was hoping the Manager will look at my case on compassionate ground and allow me to resign rather than ...

 

Please feel free to ask any thing you need to know to an able you to write the letter and I am willing to reply to the best of my knowledge.

I very much appreciate all your help.

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Hello again. I have a few questions please.

 

When were you dismissed and how long had you worked there? [Just found that, 18 months.]

 

Have you been given the reasons for their view that it's gross misconduct?

 

In 2., when you say you were leaving, do you mean going away or resigning?

 

How long were you away?

 

If you could contact your sister and colleague, could you have contacted your employer?

 

4. So although you've been dismissed, they will give you a reference for another employer?

 

That will help us give your problem some thought, if you can give us some answers.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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honeybee,

 

I had a similar situation, I was ill, I went to the doctors about 5 times, A & E three times, I couldn't get admitted. I was getting silly calls from the

Manager and co. When your ill, you really don't want to confront people

that don't want to show any compassion or understanding. I even called the so called HR department telling them that I'm ill can they do something. After that I got the 'resign or face a disiplinary' call from the manager. In the end I resigned, but I sent the resignation to the MD.

Sometimes the employee handbook really, really doesn't matter. Common sense should takes over.

The last thing your thinking about is mindless people, especially when you've been truthful on the application form.

In my circumstances, If I was being judged by the 'Employee Handbook' then there were many problems with

the 'Employee Handbook', all three managers could of been sacked for Gross Misconduct. Sometimes it's better to just walk away, thats what I did.

Edited by rebel11
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Thanks guys, I kinda need to hand it today before 5pm and I am rather desperate. Honeybee13, because this was my first time using this forum I didn't know where or to whom I sent it but I shall look in to it. Many thanks for all your help.

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Were you invited to a disciplinary meeting before your dismissal?

If so, you were you able to go to the meeting?

Or, were you dismissed in your absence?

 

Did you receive a letter giving the reasons for your dismissal?

 

If so:

1. On what date does it state that you were dismissed?

2. What reason is given for your dismissal? e.g. Unauthorised absence.

 

If you can answer a few questions I will compose an appeal letter for you in the next hour or so.

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Hi mariefab,

 

Unfair dismissal is the right word. I was away for just over 6 months, I did inform my boss that I will be away to which they did agree but they needed to know as to when I am coming back yet because of the fluidity of the issue I wasn't able to tell them and assume as tho I have been told that end of b'ness today is the last they will accept my appeal. Oh! they said I should have kept them updated which I did try with my friend at work as well as my sister yet that wasn't good enough because it wasn't in writing as well as lack the detail they needed i.e. date that I was going back. Regardless, Had I known that they were going to dismiss me I would have resigned on compassionate ground "Unauthorised absence" will be right assumtion. Although I was asked if I needed someone with me at the meeting I was thinking they should have had another person with them too. i.e. some one from HR. it was my manager and I in the room :-(

I am not sure if you know but I really am not sure I should go back in to this job under this conditions so all I want them to do is not to dismiss me and allow me to resign. Thanks again

Edited by Sou1_2_Sou1
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OK

There's no real need to go into great detail of your mitigating circumstances in the appeal letter.

Nor is it necessary to let them know that you would be happy to resign in exchange for losing the gross misconduct dismissal at this stage.

You can save all that kind of negotiation for the meeting.

 

In case you didn't already know; you (and every other employee) are entitled to take time off for dependants.

 

Time off for dependants : Directgov - Employment

 

Here you go, hope this helps.

 

Appeal letter.

 

Dear (?),

 

I would like to appeal the decision to dismiss me on (??/??/??).

 

I appreciate that I considerably exceeded the normal entitlement to time off for dependants. I also accept that I failed to keep you properly informed and updated during my period of absence.

 

However, it is my hope that the Company could be persuaded to reconsider the decision on compassionate grounds.

 

Could you please give me at least (?) days notice of the appeal meeting date.

 

Yours etc.

 

Just fill in the (?) parts.

It might be an idea to print 2 copies, take both with you and get someone to sign and date one copy for you to keep as proof that they received your appeal.

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Mariefab,

I am ever so greatful for what you have done. I kind of need it to be an appeal with out my presence as I will have to go back out to be next to my mum as her days are near. So it needs to be a bit more detailed although I understand where you are coming from. The appeal is only with letter/avidence

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OK

 

Appeal letter.

 

Dear (?),

 

I would like to appeal the decision to dismiss me for gross misconduct on (??/??/??).

 

I appreciate that I considerably exceeded the normal entitlement to time off for dependants. I also accept that I failed to keep you properly informed and updated during my period of absence.

 

However, it is my hope that the Company could be persuaded to reconsider the decision on compassionate grounds. (Please see mitigation document enclosed.)

 

I don't expect to be reinstated but would very much like, if possible, to have the stigma of a gross misconduct dismissal removed. So, perhaps the Company would be prepared to accept a backdated resignation fom me as an alternative solution.

 

As I won't be able to attend the appeal meeting could you please inform me of your decision in writing.

 

Yours etc.

 

Print 2 copies, take both with you and get someone to sign and date one copy for you to keep as proof that they received your appeal.

 

As indicated above, do a separate letter describing the unfortunate circumstances with your Mum. Don't downplay the issues, make sure that you write about the understandable stress, turmoil, worry you were suffering from.

 

Can I just add my sympathies for what you are going through and wish you strength for the time ahead.

Marie

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Marie,

I am lost for words for the care you showed. I very much appreciate all that you have done for me, for all the kind words and support you all have given me.

Few peoples have offerd to write this letter if I can I will post them all so others can learn from it.

If there are others here i.e. honeybee13 ...etc please do upload your own version I am 100% sure we all can pick up a thing or two from it.

 

My gratitude as ever to you all.

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Hi Honeybee13 Mariefab did tell me that you asked her to help on my behalf to which I am very greatful and YES YES it did help alot. I have handed it now hope there is a good out come. what ever the case may be I shall keep you posted. Hanks for your help again.

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