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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Particulars of claim template


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I know I'm new, but thought I'd stick my head above the parapit again! I'm glad to read the particulars of claim you have on site mentions the UTCC, I usually refer to them as unfair terms as defined in section 5, schedule 2(e) UTCC regulation 1999 - winds them up more when YOU get technical :lol:

 

I wonder if you might consider add an 'unjust enrichment' claim to the particulars as well? As the banks owed a duty of care to the consumer in the form of a fiduciary duty not to gain extra profit by way of 'fiduciary improprietry'. Now, if the court holds that the charges are unlawful, anythign that flows from such charges are fruits of the same poisenous tree. So, you go overdrawn £100, the banks slap on a £30 charge, they charge debit interest on the whole amount, there by a profit by wrong doing or 'unjust enrichment'. Therefore a claimant can claim restitutionary damages - it is hard to work it out exactly, but I usually add on£10 per hundred. If they want to argue the toss its going to cost them alot more than £10 per hundred to get a forensic accountant to calculate how much the made from unjust enrichment!

The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Definitely a seed of an idea there - but the consensus is that the standard template works so far (with personal circumstances amended)

 

However, if you try your gambit, and it gets results, then everyone would love to hear about it.

 

Good luck.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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This is one of the issues that has been causing some problems.

 

Essentially what you are saying is that the bank should not enrich itself by its own unlawful act ie it shouldn't for example be able to charge interest on unlawful charges. There has been a lot of debate about how to calculate these interest charges in order to reclaim them. I think you are right in that it would take the skills of a forensic accountant to do so in a complicated case.

 

The alternative you suggest is sa very interesting idea.

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Thanks for your replies. In the particulars of claim I use, I always include a for claim unjust enrichment without any real challenge. Seminole you are exactly right. the exact terms I use are as follows:

 

The Claimant further claims that the Defendant owed him a duty of care in the form of a fiduciary duty not to gain extra profit and by way of ‘fiduciary impropriety’ and that by adding interest to the unlawfully levied charges, the Defendant breached that duty of care and made ‘profit by wrongdoing’ from that breach at the Claimant’s expense forming an ‘unjust enrichment’. The Claimant therefore claims restitutionary damages, in the nominal sum of £100.00, for that ‘unjust enrichment’.

The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

Reputation Points Always Welcome

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I have thought about throwing 'goodwill gesture' back at the bank - but I am pressed to think what I can offer as my token...any suggestions?

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I don't think its the sort of think one should add to a pre litigation or other 'letter before action'. It really is something that is best reserved for pleadings to force a settlement.

The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

Reputation Points Always Welcome

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The law maybe reason without passion as Aristotle said, but hey, he said nothing about having fun when getting even!

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal expereince. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

Reputation Points Always Welcome

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