Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

pova investigation


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5186 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

My wife works for a company who looks after adults with learning difficulties who live in their own shared homes. last month she was suspended for an incident that ocurred while she was on her own with one of the clients, and told that she was under a pova investigation. for obvious reaons i can not say what hapened in a public place, but can IM the facts if anyone needs them to answer my query.Anyway, she had an interview with the police, who stated that in their eyes, she had done nothing wrong and had in fact followed the guidelines laid out in this persons notes.

She has been abused by the clients by them grabbing her hair and pulling out chunks, and nothing was done as the company said that that the clients must know that they are stronger than staff, so they can basically do what they want to you and you can not stop them or will be charged with abuse. The police however told her that she has the right to feel safe in her workplace, which she doesn't as she is now in fear of being attacked and the company ignoring it. During the incident under investigation, she was pulled to the floor by the client,and again, that is of no concern to the company.

the company has since, stated that there will always be 2 staff on duty at any time, which at the time of the incident, the other staff were out with the other 2 clients,so she was qalone in the house with the other.

She has to go to a meeting nest week at the office and is only allowed to take a work colleague(there is nobody she can trust not to be biased) or a union rep (she is not in a union), so i am worried that they might use her as an example and sack her. here comes another problem. She is an american citizen with permanent residency, and we are saving up for her to become a british citizen. The american way of talking is obviously different to ours, and she often uses wording that can be misunderstood as it was in her report on this matter, and if she is sacked she may be banned from ever working in the industry again. Could anyone please give me some advice on this matter if possible.I forgot to add that this happened because she wrote up a report of the incident, but noi member of staff or the client made the accusation and being an american, i believe it was the way she worded it that caused a little confusion, and that is why the police said she did nothing wrong when she explained her wordingto them. I shall be happy to give the ful account in a private message if anyone needs it to give me any advice

 

many thanks.

 

seapring

Edited by seapring
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

My wife works for a company who looks after adults with learning difficulties who live in their own shared homes. last month she was suspended for an incident that ocurred while she was on her own with one of the clients, and told that she was under a pova investigation. for obvious reaons i can not say what hapened in a public place, but can IM the facts if anyone needs them to answer my query.Anyway, she had an interview with the police, who stated that in their eyes, she had done nothing wrong and had in fact followed the guidelines laid out in this persons notes.

She has been abused by the clients by them grabbing her hair and pulling out chunks, and nothing was done as the company said that that the clients must know that they are stronger than staff, so they can basically do what they want to you and you can not stop them or will be charged with abuse. The police however told her that she has the right to feel safe in her workplace, which she doesn't as she is now in fear of being attacked and the company ignoring it. During the incident under investigation, she was pulled to the floor by the client,and again, that is of no concern to the company.

the company has since, stated that there will always be 2 staff on duty at any time, which at the time of the incident, the other staff were out with the other 2 clients,so she was qalone in the house with the other.

She has to go to a meeting nest week at the office and is only allowed to take a work colleague(there is nobody she can trust not to be biased) or a union rep (she is not in a union), so i am worried that they might use her as an example and sack her. here comes another problem. She is an american citizen with permanent residency, and we are saving up for her to become a british citizen. The american way of talking is obviously different to ours, and she often uses wording that can be misunderstood as it was in her report on this matter, and if she is sacked she may be banned from ever working in the industry again. Could anyone please give me some advice on this matter if possible.

 

many thanks.

 

seapring

 

Sorry to hear about your problems and i hope you get things resolved.

 

Ive experinced similar POVA incidents a number of years ago, they are the to protect the client, but in turn the carer suffers and i feel makes the carer more vunrable to allegations.

 

What part of the country do you live in ? after reading your thread it sounds like a company ive heard about !

The retailers worst nightmare !

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick reply big boss man.I live in the north east and as i can not mention the company name on here in public for obvious reasons,it is a word used when describing sizes of things

 

Im sorry i can not provide you with more in depth advice, im sure other people will help you in due course.

 

There is specific guidlines that care providers have to follow, these are very indepth and are there to protect the carer as well as the client ! by the sounds of your description, i feel the company has not followed guidlines and failed to protect the carer.

 

Is there any chance you narrow North East down ? I am extremely interested in the name of this company, i understand you can not name them at this time, if and when the time permits please let me know.

The retailers worst nightmare !

Link to post
Share on other sites

KIrrespective of POVA, your wife is entitled to a duty of care from her employers, and be provided with a safe place of work.

 

Can I suggest she raises a grievance.

 

Also I cannot understand this thing about saving up to become British citizen - I didnt think it cost.

 

Anyway we wont hold her american status against her (except for giving Hannah Montanna to the world!)

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the reply monkeychicken.We will definately consider raising a grievance. Yes, once you pas the citizenship exam, you have to pay the government £720 for the privelidge of obtaining a piece of paper and then £60 odd on top to attend the ceremony which is compulsory.Thats after paying about £3500 for various visas giving permission to reside here over the 5 years before you can take the exam

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a sad fact that Americans working here in the UK are quite often subjected to unlawful discrimination on the grounds of their national origin.

Perhaps it's overlooked as we (kinda) speak the same language and many of them are racially European. They tend to be, in my experience (I lived there for a year), particularly polite, decent people themselves.

My ex-wife worked here for the best part of a year and was frequently very upset by 'comments' made by her co-workers, which they clearly thought were innocuous. They wouldn't have dared make an equivalant 'joke' towards someone who was, say, African-Caribbean or Asian.

 

Clearly, sometimes there is a language barrier. Your wife needs to be forthright about this, and make sure that her employers take her use of language as an American into account. Although it may not be apparent to them, they're guilty of unlawful discrimination if they don't make reasonable adjustments for her use of language.

 

B*gger me, I'm dying for a fag.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

A quick update and advise if anyone knows of any suitable.My wife has at last received a date for her disciplinary hearing. She was told at her first meeting last year that she would get a copy of the notes taken at that meeting for her to check and sign as being true(notes requested to be verbatim and were not), and that she would hear from them within a week. She obviously did not hear within the week, and the copy of the notes taken were not sent to her, and have been written in their report in a way that favors the company(missing some of the meeting out). Also the company states that there is absolutely no difference between the American and English language, which there obviously is.Everything she has said during this investigation has been twisted around to make her look bad.It also mentions the fact that she asked to be allowed to show exactly what she did, and was not allowed to do so, which would have given insight to what she was really trying to say, but again was taken in the wrong context.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

many thanks,

Link to post
Share on other sites

Under current legislation care homes are required to make a POVA referral if they reasonably believe that a care worker is guilty of misconduct which has harmed, or has placed at risk of harm, a vulnerable person in their care...

 

Minutes of a meeting are rarely 'verbatim', unless as transcript of recordings... Nevertheless, I would suggest that your wife raises a grievance as per the content of those minutes, once in her possession, in relation to the substance. She may decline to sign them as true...

Edited by Bigredbus

---Aut viam inveniam aut faciam---

 

***All advice given should be taken as guidance... Professional advice should always be taken before any course of action is pursued***

 

- I do not reply directly to any PMs, but you are more than welcome to enclose a link, in a PM, to your post. Thank you -

Make a contribution to this site... Help the CAG keeping on helping you for FREE.

Link to post
Share on other sites

n written in their report in a way that favors the company(missing some of the meeting out). Also the company states that there is absolutely no difference between the American and English language,

 

Mmmm, obviously they haven't read this yet. TravelFurther - British-American Dictionary

 

Just click the letters of the alphabet on the left. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...