Bookie & the Toshiba external HD **SORTED**

[Conniff]

stop copying and pasting in SOGA and thinking thats all that consumers need.

 

if they knew the meaning of SOGA they would not be registering to forums and asking about it.

 

I have absolutely no idea what that means. One statement totally contradicts the other. Is that what they call an oxymoron?

If they have reached the point where the shop refuses responsibility then they have done all the hard work and SOGA is what they need to know.

 

I also have no idea what all the references to 'shelf stackers' is all about either. Why would anyone be asking a shelf stacker anything? Use the correct term for the person you are talking about.

 

the facts are simple the company which purchase was made from has a legal obligation. not the shelf stacker.

 

the shelf stacker can give you options. to send away for repair, to replace or to refund

 

Another contradiction. Your saying that you the customer HAS the choice of send away, repair or replacement. No one knows whats wrong with it yet, but no matter, thank you, I will take the replacement.

Did you notice that you have admitted the company has a legal obligation at last.

 

al three options are only available to the buyer within reasonable time of purchase, or if the option the company chose has became too inconvenient by taking too long.

 

What is a resonable time??? Anyway I have decided that the option the company have chosen is inconvenient and will take too long so I will have a replacement please.

 

within first 6 months of purchase the consumer has to allow the company time to inspect and test the equipment before a remedy can be made.

 

after the 6 months the consumer has to prove it was not their causing either by showing its obviously faulty to the company representatives or by getting an independant report. yes independant so no asking best mate to check it out.

 

Within five minutes or five hundred years, the customer HAS to allow the company time to inspect irrespective of the fault, after all it is they you are seeking redress from.

I'm not sure why you have set deadlines of 6 months, even so after six months you still have to let the company examin it and you do not have to prove it's faulty. What this is infering to is inherant faults that they deny or deny there is a fault. They might be right.

 

To prove a fault is easy, switch it on, nothing happens so it must be faulty? No, this is the reason you have to take all the purchase back with you, it could be the power pack that is faulty.

 

Anytime within the first 12 months if a fault appears you take it back to the shop and present the equipment telling them what the fault is or what it does not now do that it used to. They will then take it from you and if it is a fault with the equipment, they will repair it and return it.

It's only when they have had a look and decide that it is a user induced fault or careless handling or there is no fault just user error that you then have to show that it is a fault with the equipment.

If it is user induced then you will have to pay for the repair (quite rightly).

 

More rantings about shelf stackers follow that I don't understand.

 

companies have legal departments and policies which calculate costs and work out least inconvenient routes for both consumer and company to remedy faults. IE replacing a laptop is more costly then repairing it. repairing a printer is more costly then replacing it.

 

Replacing is not always more expensive than repairing. If the said laptop has to be sent away and an engineer strips it down and finds the motherboard is faulty and that has in turn damaged the chip, then that has to be replaced and the labour costs of doing all that can easily turn into more than simply replacing.

You also forget, that the company does not bear the cost of the replaced part. Sellers are also covered by warranty. If the hard drive proves faulty, that is replaced at the manufacturers cost. The shop will change the drive for a new one and then send the old one away for recompence.

 

There follows some other rubbish about someone pushing someone out of the shop.

 

do not demand remedies as the options are only available to you at the companies descretion or with good reason (short time from purchase) (long time for repair)

 

Wrong. The remedies are available to you by consumer law, the company has no say in it.

 

get some facts like proving that the item meant to last the length you have owned it.

 

What like more than 6 months?

 

get a expert report made if its value is high. and find out what their remedy is and ask if their is a faster solution.

 

Price has no bearing on it. You only need to 'get a expert report' if they refuse what is your right under consumer law.

 

stop demanding repairs from untrained staff then trying to sue the company.

 

How do we tell if they are trained or not especially if they are stood under a sign saying "Customer Services", and why would you go to any other person than the one standing under that sign?

 

do not use staff unskilled training as a reason to go to small claims

 

I never knew that staff had training to become unskilled.

 

stop demanding repairs from untrained staff then trying to sue the company.

 

Do you know of anyone who has or would be so stupid as to demand a repair from someone who is untrained.

 

simply ask them who will deal with it and what is a alternative if you want it done sooner. such as in case of latops calling the techguys repair centre yourself to arrange the pickup.

 

If the counter staff refuse to deal with you then you ask to see the supervisor or manager, anyone with half a brain know that.

It's not up to you to call the tech guys. That is up to the shop unless the paperwork given to you with the purchase receipt has a system to make life easier for it's customere and it gives you a number to report a fault.

 

demanding unskilled and non-repsonsible staff to remdy it while you wait will be met back with a "NO!" this is not the company saying no this is the staff saying no.

 

I don't want tech to remedy, I want the canteen lady to do it. Another really stupid remark that makes no sense at all.

 

give company enough time to inspect equiptment and find a remedy.

do not force solutions via unjustified timescales

 

So what is enough time?, the time has to be 'reasonable', you said so yourself.

 

The date is now 12 months and one day, and the company flatly refuses to have anything to do with you or your piece of equipment, (what happened to the customer retention you mentioned?).

This is when you start to introduce SOGA into the conversation.

[patdavies]

 

explain it. in plain 2007 english

 

I find this advice to be rich, coming as it does from somebody who can't even use capital letters and full stops properly: never mind construct proper sentences.

 

Oh, I am still waiting on the apology fred:rolleyes:

[fred_2009]

great pat now instead of insulting my grammer and lack of capital letters and fall stops realise that this forum needs a perfect english explaination of what rights AND responsibilities the consumer has.

 

explained so that the non intellectual people can understand it.

 

take conniff for example.

 

the facts are simple the company which purchase was made from has a legal obligation. not the shelf stacker.

the shelf stacker can give you options. to send away for repair, to replace or to refund Another contradiction. Your saying that you the customer HAS the choice of send away, repair or replacement. No one knows whats wrong with it yet, but no matter, thank you, I will take the replacement.

Did you notice that you have admitted the company has a legal obligation at last.

 

i have always said the company were responsible. but the shelf stacker personally is not. all the shelf stacker can do is tell you the options available. he can give you the information about the options that the company have.

 

conniff read what i have said as being that the unskilled/untrained shop worker has the legal ability to give the consumer the choice.

 

NO what is meant to be said was that the shelf stacker can simply give them the information. they dont repair items themselves.

 

this forum needs a broken down in detail english explained, using proper grammar to make you happy version of SOGA.

 

SO shut me up and make it. stating "all you need to say is SOGA" is not good enough

 

explain the benefits of it over guarantee's and the fastest course of action.

 

taylor it to individual posts such as for ink cartridges which are consumables have little to no chance of a remedy once used.

 

for keyboards which seem too expensive to repair suggest taking instore as the fastest solution.

 

and for laptops calling the techguys or comets one care service for assistance.

 

dragging customers into a shop demanding actions which you know wont happen that day. because big items get sent off. then informing them to write to HQ because they aint happy that it is not immediately repaired demanding action or small claims is rediculous.

 

advise customers of the many routes the consumer has. somedont realise that lapttops dont get repaired instore and are dealt with outside of store. they dont realise the company has to inspect it which takes time.

 

many posts i have seen are involving your band of legal cough experts cough to go into store demanding action because of SOGA. not telling the customer atleast to go to store and ask the shelf stacker to atleast book it in for techguys to look at.

 

under soga the company are responsible come store workers in all three major computer retailers know that by the customer calling the repair guys themselves which are entities of the company still comes under soga.

 

also it is faster then the item sitting on shelf for a week.

 

so when customer comes in demanding action and the store staff ask the customer to call the repair number the customer then gets frustrated because they believe all they have to say is "SOGA" to get instant action.

 

yes the store staff should know to say "yes we will book a collection for you" but they know with a 20 minute wait while they on phone it will leave a huge queue instore of people they are not serving.

 

they cannot refuse customers who ask for the store to ask for a collection to be booked by the store. but if the customer does not ask for the store to book it. then the store can ask the customer to call the repair centre themselves because it IS

least inconvenient to both parties. meaning the item will get fixed faster if picked up couple days after call rather then sitting instore for a week

 

and the number they are trained to give customers under their policies is a company entity so it still comes under SOGA.

 

so please write a proper english guide and atleast taylor it with real world advice like

"oh its a laptop is it well legally you got two routes. one go to store and ask them to organise a repair colection for you. or two call the repair centre yourself on 08..... if they refuse THEN state SOGA"

not

"go to store demand action while you wait stating SOGA"

[GuidoT]

Bookie has sorted it all out now, so can we stop arguing (bickering) now on this thread please.

[gyzmo]

Amen to that - if it were that simple.

 

The problem is that Fred keeps posting incorrect - at best dubious advice - on consumer rights. people come to this site for advice (and to be honest - do not know better. It is a bit like a sick person asking the bloke in the pub what wrong rather than going to the doctor, but that seems to be human nature).

 

Not knowing better, such people take the advice given - good or bad.

In order to prevent such people from getting themselves into a muddle, it is necessary to post correct advice, and also to correct others who give poor advice.

 

that is why these threads (Freds?) continue for so long. I would dearly love to see a thread last just a few posts before someone said "sorted". Unfortunately certain idiots seem to think otherwise and have some sort of agenda.

 

I will make no apologies for continuing this - as long as those in need continue to seek advice here, I will carry on posting correct advice (as will others I hope). Some of us do actually care

[fred_2009]

again instead of slagging me off gyzmo. dont reply by saying all a consumer needs to state when approaching a simple shelf stacker is "i have my soga rights" and then believe the shelf stacker will imediatly know what to do and act there and then

 

write some real world advise advising the consumer that the retailer may have to send it off, may need time to inspect the product so how about you write a guide that is in more detail then

 

"all you need is SOGA"

 

how about write "you have SOGA rights, but be aware they may have to send it away or inspect it for a few days so ask them the fastest course of action dont demand imediate action"

 

try that atleast

 

many people believe they get a straight swap while they wait if they mention SOGA because you people dont explain the details.

 

then because they dont get imediate action they get frustrated and believe their rights are being violated and start writing to HQ of companies threading them with small claims.

 

and the bit about the bank charges. the chap did not know all the facts he just knew to say "i know my rights" which is all you seem to advise. he did not know the little piece of information contained in the rights that asked him to prove something. because he did not bring the proof, they denied the claim.

 

saying "i know my rights" is not enough without actually realising that consumers have responsibilities like allowing companies time to repair or even contacting/talking to a trained expert who can sort it out. again going to unskilled shelf stackers demanding action is not good. asking the untrained shelf stacker what they can do or what the fastest route to remedy the fault is atleast helpful

 

be helpful.

[gyzmo]

Nurse! He's out of bed again.....

 

where's that health warning picture?

[electron99]

Fred 2009. To communicate effectively your point of view, you need either to proof read your posts or get someone else to do it.Your messages are becoming increasingly unreadable. Step back and read your last post, and ask yourself can anyone who writes in this way possibly have valid points to make.It is all about gaining the confidence of the reader that you know your subject.Sadly at the moment this is not happening.