Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

claim stayed following OFT case


malaga1
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5974 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, yes you should be in the Cap ONE section you will get more replies from people dealing with them all the time. Looks like they issued your cheque already so you should be okay! Just case of waiting for it to arrive! Good Luck!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 77
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Thank you

 

I have just recieved notification that there will be a hearing about the stay on my case, in HASTINGS court, on 7th September.

 

Is there anything in particular that i should take to help my case, I am hoping that the financial hardship side would be helpful, especially in regards that I am currently recieving Income Support and Carer's allowance, and have a child who recieved DLA at the highest rate, as she has cystic fibrosis. I cannot get a normal job, as due to my daughters illness, and the fact that I will probably take alot of time off due to hospital visits, etc, I have unofficailly been told that I am 'unemployable' (despite having 2 Bsc s and years of experience), so I was relying on the money to help me into self-employment, as seems the only way to get off the benefit system (which I really want to do)

would any of that be of relevence??

 

What else have others taken - I remember the guy who got the stay lifted saying about the bank's non-complience, ie not sending statements, sending standard letters, not submitting court bundles, etc??

 

Any advice would be gratefully recieved xx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Elseg! Good news about the hearing for lifting the stay. I havnt heard back from courts yet re mine. I would think that the Hardship grounds are the thing that should go in your favour and the fact that the Bank is taking these Benefits in Charges! Did the Order ask you to bring anything along?

Link to post
Share on other sites

With regards to the use of hardship as part of the argument to have a stay overturned, I have seen several members stating the OFT or FSA. They appear to suggest that either or both organisations recommend that cases involving hardship should continue yet I have been unable to find this actually quoted. Anyone got details of it to hand or better still where I can find it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a good letter on here that was adapted after the OFT ruling was anounced. It refers to the hardship issue I just adapted it to my own case and added a few extra bits. I still have not heard from court re lifting my stay

Link to post
Share on other sites

Malaga

My wile has just phoned to say there is a letter from the court requesting the pleasure of my company for a hearing early October. It sounds like this is the collective stay lift hearing we have been waiting for even though I specified no hearing on my N244. Unfortunately I'll be out of the country on holiday at that time so I'll check if I can make representations to the judge by letter. Will provide more details tomorrow after I have read the letter tonight.

Brett

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a letter today too! A Hearing will take place on 12 OCTOBER at 10am. 5 Mins has been allowed for the Hearing. 1, Both sides must file a skeleton argument and copies of all relavant authorities relied on not later than 7 days before the Hearing! 2, This application will be heard together with a number of other similar applications at composite hearing. I was hoping not to have to attend! Dont know what I need to send in now!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Malaga

I definitely had the same letter. I spoke to the court this morning to get some clarification of the order. The skeleton argument is basically what you put on N244 plus anything else you can add that you think may help.The relevant authorities are copies of any case laws you quote in the argument. I was hoping not to attend too! I told the court I won't be able to attend and they advised I contact [problem] to agree a deferment. If [problem] don't want to play ball, I can apply for an adjournment but that costs £65. I'll see what [problem] have to say ....

Brett

Link to post
Share on other sites

hello all having been offline for a while after the stayed aug 14th cases i pretty much threw in the towel and gave up on my claim. now i feel ready to go for it again and i was wondering what steps to take from here. the last thing ive had was the letter from ccc telling me my case was stayed. what steps should i take now,do i oppose the stay at this stage or is it all a waste of time until the result of the oft case

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have put in a request to lift the stay but there is a hearing in october for all cases in my court. So really dont know if it will do any good or not but I thought it was worth a try.Otherwise there will be a long wait!

Link to post
Share on other sites

My hearing about lifting the stay is rapidly approaching - 2 days away. They have allowed 45 mins (not the 5 mins others have quoted) which makes me wonder whether they may plough straight into the hearing if they agree to the stay being lifted

 

I have decided to bring

 

1. court bundle for the main hearing (just in case)

2. n244 and all that i submitted with that

3. lists of cases settled

4. lists of courts who are not applying stays

5. copies of letter to [problem] about non-compliance regarding their court bundle

6. OFT/FSA bit regarding hardship

7. proof of income support, carer's allowance and disability living allowance related to my daughter, proof of child tax credit, credit card bills

8. proof of postage / signature for reciept of my court bundle from [problem]

9 correspondance from the courts

 

I am als going to drop into the conversation that I have had to come from the hospital where my daughter will be at the time of the hearing

 

anything else???

 

E xx

Link to post
Share on other sites

do you have a link to that??

 

Just had a letter from [problem], obviously caught on that the courts were taking a dim view of them not applying for a stay. this application to keep the stay in place was sent yesterday (hearing tomorrow).

Ususal defence - stating that they want to wait for OFT case, etc etc, tho it does say in MOST cases - so think will be ok, as applying for hardship grounds, which is where there is a let out clause on the FSA/OFT waiver, so will agree that in MOST cases, but mine is one of those where it should not apply....

 

E xx

Link to post
Share on other sites

Elseg, you seem to have done all your research and have everything you need.Hope the courts can see you have done everything you can and have good grounds for lifting this stay.Good Luck! Let us know how you get on!

Link to post
Share on other sites

They kept the stay in place....

as typical the bank had sent a sleeze of a barrister with halatosis, to sidle up to me and attempt to rip my defence to pieces before I went in. It was a little annoying because I was only there with momets to spare, as had to come from the hospital where my daughter was, and had hoped to gather my thoughts a little....

 

As it was, it didnt really matter, as unless I was literally dying in the next few months, there was no way that he was lifting the stay. He was very nice about it, tho gave some cock and bull excuse that as was in financial hardship, the costs if I lost a case would wipe me out, and if I won the banks would automatically appeal, and no costs are awarded on appeal, and with court costing £187 per hour.....

 

I tried to ask him whether any where the stays were lifted had actually GOT to court....

 

I dont think there was anything which I could have said, to be honest - he wasnt interested in my financial circumstances, or that the FSA had suggested financial hardship cases should continue, or that [problem] hadnt filed their bundle.

 

It only occurred to me later that I had been bamboozled over - as it is obvious that the circumstances of costs were no new thing (I think he was trying to make out that he was being nice to poverty stricken minions) - they had been the risk I was willing to take when I filed the case in the first place, way back before the OFT case was a glimmer in the eye of the banks.... but again, I dont think he would have altered his decision, I just wish I had realised it and had the chance to say it, as I think they made me look like a fool who was scared of big money....

 

at least when the bank's guy asked for his costs, the judge said no way...

 

oh well, roll on march 2008

 

E xx

Link to post
Share on other sites

So sorry to hear that Elseg. I cant see that you could of done anymore. Its not looking good for anyone trying to get these stays removed. Seems like the judges have made their mind up before you get there.Wondering if its worth going for mine in October.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Malaga

Sorry I have been out of the loop for a little while as I have been moving offices and I don't have a PC at home.

The temporary good news is that the man from [problem] has verbally agreed to a postponement of my stay hearing so I won't be involved in your courtroom battles on October 12th. I guess they will shunt me off to another composite stay ding dong round 2 later in the year.

The trials and tribulations of Elseg et who have really sound cases for lifts make depressing reading and only deepens my already pessimistic view that we are up against an immoveable force.

I envisage that the likely scenario on the day will be that the banks will send in their legal big guns who will give the judge a quick blast of their best barristerspeak to align to their cause. It will then be a case of us poor legal lightweights being summoned in turn for our 5 minute audience, with all our tales of woe, financial hardship, human rights, [problem]'s ignoring court orders etc. brushed aside with a directive of the stay stays, oft you jolly well go and don't come back till March ... testing times indeeed ...

On the other hand we may get lucky with a judge having a good day who is sympathetic to the plight of the little man and lifts our spirits by kicking the bank's aguments into touch where it belongs ... but somehow I have a feeling that this is just wishfull thinking ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brett, Yes I think you are right! Elseg had some really good grounds and prepared herself well and still it seemed the judge had made up his mind before she got there! I have been reading around and it doesnt look good. I wish I hadnt bothered trying to lift the stay now. well you never know!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Malaga, just back from my hols expecting to see an update from you on the trials and tribulations of the 12th - any news, good or bad?

I received confirmation from the court that my case has been vacated and I am waiting on a new date, although if you report doom and gloom in your case I don't know why I am bothering ....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Brett, hope you had a good holiday! I was fuming last week so I didnt update at the time. It was a total waste of time. Nobody that I saw got their stay lifted. The judge had made up his mind before he got there. Really I think they should have just wrote to people telling them their stay was going to stay in place till January. It would of saved wasting everyones time. I had ticked no to a hearing! The Hardship issue was no good unless you are not going to live till next Jan! Sorry it wasnt better news maybe you will have a better judge!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...