Argos Card & JB Debt Recovery

[N.P]

Hi again boys and girls,

 

Time for another UPDATE!

 

This morning I received the following letter from my newly found friends at Fredrickson International (Very) Limited. It was actually dated 20 December 2007, so I seem to have got it straight away (Not).

 

It reads the following (Yawn) -

 

 

Dear N.P

Our Ref: Argos Crap

RE: Argos Card Services

Account No: Some Other Crap

We thank you for your recent communication regarding this account.

We have referred the matter to our client and will revert to you as soon as we are in receipt of instructions.

In the mean time we confirm that we have placed the account on hold.

Yours faithfully,

Some goon that can`t write at

Fredrickson International (Very) Ltd.

 

 

I guess there is nothing else to report as nothing has changed since the first letter I received from these whitless wonders. They must just like sending people letters to remind us that they are still there.

 

Catch you all again soon.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi people,

 

Just a little update, sort of.

 

Those of you who have been following my thread will know that Argos`s lack of a CCA is costing them dearly each month, and that I`ve been putting the money to good use on driving lessons.

 

Well, yesterday I passed my test with only 3 minors. Not bad for a first attempt eh?

 

Think I`ll approach Argos for a loan for a car now.

 

In the mean time, I`m still waiting for my damn CCA, not

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pt2537]

WELL DONE Neil,

 

result on passing your test ,its certainly harder now than it was when i did my test 15 years ago

 

great result mate

[N.P]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for that. I know all about they are making it harder. I actually mucked up the Theory Test when I went to the wrong building the first time around then managed to find the right building 45 mins late, so I missed my window. When I came to do it about 6 weeks later, the questions had gone from 35 to 50. I ended up getting 49 right. The price had gone up too.

 

Still, if it wasn`t for them nice incompetant people at Argos messing their paperwork and the persistance of the idiots they send to chase me, I don`t think I could have afforded to learn.

 

I want to learn to fly a Chopper next, LOL.

 

Catch you all again soon, no doubt.

 

 

N.P

[pecky1]

Well Done

[sillygirl1]

Well done, I did try to learn to drive but a combination of dodgy eyesight, arthritis in the ball of my right foot and not knowing left from right didn't help.

 

Hopefully you will get more news in a letter which says "We have handed the file back to our clients."

[N.P]

Hi again boys and girls,

 

Right, it`s time for an UPDATE!

 

The postie arrived late today, sometime after we went out and when I returned there was a letter from Fredrikson International, together with a dodgy looking CCA.

 

They must be quite proud of supplying this, so we`ll have to fight it all the way.

 

I have scanned both the letter and CCA at 400 DPI. The CCA copy looks to me like a microfiche print, or scan or whatever you do with microfiche, but it really is that bad a copy.

 

If it would help I could scan it again at 600 DPI and enlarge it more later tonight or tomorrow some time? Would the CCA experts amongst you please please let me know?

 

Anyway, the letter reads -

 

 

 

 

And the CCA looks like this -

 

 

 

 

Please have a good look over this and lets see what we can do.

 

I`ve noticed there is PPI ticked. Would it be possible to argue that I ticked the `No` box and this was changed by someone else?

 

There are also charges added to the account, but these are added monthly and on the statement they are added together with the PPI and show up on the Argos screen prints as one value and not a seperate value for the PPI and one for a charge. Do you know what I mean folks?

 

I look forward to hearing from you all on this.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pt2537]

Well as far as i can see, no prescribed terms so completely unenforceable IMHO

[N.P]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for that. I was hoping you`d come along sometime soon to help me out.

 

Would it help it I scanned a larger image, just to double check? But, to be honest, I couldn`t read a single word of the text on the left hand side.

 

Do you have a suitable `knob off` letter? Or, should I just wait untill they write again asking for payment and then send them something?

 

I`d appreciate some guidance from hear on in. I honestly didn`t think they would show up with anything, but you can never be sure.

 

Thanks again Paul.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Hi again folks,

 

Just bumping this one up again.

 

I have rescanned the CCA at 600 DPI and resaved it, although it hasn`t made any difference at all to the quality as it is totaly crap.

 

I received no T`s & C`s with it, just the two letters above.

 

Does anyone I have a suitable response I could send to these half-wits please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pt2537]

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

XX/XX/2007

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.the application cannot be a true copy of my agreement as it was a brand new sealed application form, there fore not a true copy

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement also does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1. Number of repayments;

2. Amount of repayments;

3. Frequency and timing of repayments;

4. Dates of repayments;

5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Further more, since the prescribed terms referred to above do not appear within the agreement you have supplied, the agreement is rendered totally unenforceable, as the prescribed terms must be contained within the agreement and not a separate document, case law confirms this opinion

 

I refer you to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

”[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which

are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the

minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1."

 

Therefore the prescribed terms cannot be contained within a separate document outside of the agreement

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

 

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

As it stands, the document supplied by you is not a valid credit agreement nor is it enforceable by any court

 

What I Require

 

Firstly, I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to Trading Standards, the Financial ombudsman service and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that your clients do not hold a signed copy of a credit agreement with my signature on it, the reasons for this is that I never signed one. Therefore the fact that they do not hold such document means that you cannot obtain an enforcement order in court. The case of Wilson-v-FCT sets this out as previously referred to above

 

However should you believe that you have grounds to enforce this agreement, please provide me with a signed copy of the credit agreement that you would consider relying upon? Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement your clients have supplied as it stands is unenforceable, should you be unable to produce a compliant agreement it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages. I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

 

 

 

Edit to suit

 

have fun

 

regards

 

paul:)

[N.P]

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for that.

 

I`ll have a fiddle with it later and paste up the finished edited copy for you to check out before I send it off.

 

I might just wait until they write again before I do send it, just to slow things down a little and annoy them even further.

 

Thanks again

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pecky1]

Hi NP

Nice application form they sent you Bless them!!

[fuzzybobble]

Moorcroft didn't even manage an application form for my Argos card lol. Mind you, Argos didn't manage it either.

Needless to say they both got a bog off letter recently.

 

No doubt it will be only a matter of time before they pass it

onto a bottom feeder DCA who will start the threat-o-gram

form letters all over again.

[N.P]

Hi NP

Nice application form they sent you Bless them!!

 

 

Hi pecky,

 

Good to hear from you again. How are you?

 

Was that exactly the same as the form you received? I`m not sure, as we haven`t heard from you in a while. It`s just that it doesn`t mention anywhere on it that it`s an application form at all, but more like a CCA.

 

I`m thinking it may be enforceable if it was clearer, I`m not sure though.

 

I`d still like to hear from anyone with any comments on this form.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[N.P]

Moorcroft didn't even manage an application form for my Argos card lol. Mind you, Argos didn't manage it either.

Needless to say they both got a bog off letter recently.

 

No doubt it will be only a matter of time before they pass it

onto a bottom feeder DCA who will start the threat-o-gram

form letters all over again.

 

 

Hi fuzzy,

 

Yeah, Moorcroft didn`t come up with anything either, that`s why they returned it to Argos. They then sent the account to Fredrikson International. Only, after some time they turned up with this.

 

I must be honest in saying, it came out of the blue though, I wasn`t expecting it. So, I wouldn`t hope on it.

 

We`ll have to see what happens with this.

 

I`m sure Paul (pt2537), Curlyben and Diskmandave, amongst others will have an arsenal of suitable replies for these annoying empty heads.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pigsic]

Hi there n.p

i see what you mean mum got exactly the same letter from FI word for word argos must of found all cos you got them at the same time

see you

lisa

[N.P]

Hi everyone,

 

Right, we have an UPDATE!

 

I decided to hang fire on the response to these empty heads, to see what they will come up with next.

 

Anyway, they have come back with errrmmm..... the same letter -

 

 

 

 

They also sent me this months Argos statement, stating I need to pay over £1300 to bring to account upto date. How silly, of course I`ll pay it off on Saturday, when the banks are open, NOT! Not sure why they`ve sent this, as I haven`t had one for months and months now. Maybe they are trying to remind me of this account, not that it`s getting to me.

 

Is there any point in responding to this? Clearly these people are nothing but morons.

 

Maybe it`s time to send Paul`s letter?

 

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated on this.

 

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[fuzzybobble]

£1300 for a monthly payment is a lot.

Did you go into Argos and say "One of everything please."?

 

I think Moorcroft have run out of stamps,

as they've not bothered to reply to my bog off letter.

I think they have realised it's a lost cause.

No doubt I'll be hearing from another DCA about it

before too long though.

[N.P]

£1300 for a monthly payment is a lot.

Did you go into Argos and say "One of everything please."?

 

I think Moorcroft have run out of stamps,

as they've not bothered to reply to my bog off letter.

I think they have realised it's a lost cause.

No doubt I'll be hearing from another DCA about it

before too long though.

 

 

The monthly payment is around £102, it`s just I haven`t paid anything for months since they haven`t showed up with my shiny CCA, just that daft looking application form type thing, that looks like a copy of a microfiche anyway.

 

You might hear from Fred soon then. These are REAL DCA`s, they are harder than Morecrap, LOL.

 

 

 

N.P

[pigsic]

Hi there N.P

Can you believe mum got exactely the same letter and a statement like you today I was like what I cant understand them

lisa

[N.P]

Hi there N.P

Can you believe mum got exactely the same letter and a statement like you today I was like what I cant understand them

lisa

 

 

Hi Lisa,

 

How you doing?

 

Are you going to bother with a response or not?

 

They must send these things out in bulk to save on postage because they don`t seem to be doing too well in the reclaims, do they?

 

Shall we all ignore them at the same time, and reply at the same time?

 

Perhaps if we all put our letters into one envelope or parcel and send them that, then that will really mess them up, LOL

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[pigsic]

Fine thanks, just having a laugh on these idiots expense was just going to post it on my thread and see what responce i get will keep you informed

lisa

[fuzzybobble]

The monthly payment is around £102, it`s just I haven`t paid anything for months since they haven`t showed up with my shiny CCA, just that daft looking application form type thing, that looks like a copy of a microfiche anyway.

 

You might hear from Fred soon then. These are REAL DCA`s, they are harder than Morecrap, LOL.

 

 

 

N.P

 

Already had dealings with Fredrickson about 6 months ago

with my girlfriends barclaycard account.

It's been passed around 4 DCA's now, and the best any of them

managed was a bad microfiche copy of an application form.

So they all got sent packing Fredrickson included. Until Robinson Way

started churning out random threats a few days ago.

[pigsic]

Hi n.p

I have been advice to file under ignore so i dont know what to do

lisa