Rachael V Barclays - Help & Support Required

[rach_vicky]

OK, well here goes, I have gone through the whole process so far through advice from Money Expert.

 

1st letter was sent on 4th April, and I received a letter from Barclays on 16th April requesting more time to deal with my complaint, then on the 9th May I got a goodwill gesture of £615.00 - My claim is for £939.60 - (greedily you might think) I turned this down by sending the second letter on the 10th May, I received no response so on the 28th May I sent the second letter again, still no response. So on the13th June I sent my claim through MCOL. It was classed as issued on 18th June, and on the 14th day Barclays submitted an acknowledgement and then on the 28th day they submitted a defence. I have today received the defence.

 

To be honest I am now extremely scared, nervous and feel way out of my depth.

 

The claim has been sent to my local court – Wakefield

 

The first page reads:

To all parties

A defence to this claim has been filed.

The claim has been transferred to the court covering the area where the claimant lives or carries on business.

Please read the accompanying documents carefully and note that the allocation questionnaire should be returned to the Wakefield County Court.

All further communication should be address to:

The Court Manager

Wakefield County Court

(Address)

01924 370268

 

The part about the allocation questionnaire has been crossed out, and there is not one included, does this mean I do not need one? Or should I call the court to seek advice?

 

Now onto the defence:-

 

• The particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and / or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. Furthermore, they give no recognisable cause of action, nor is there sufficient material to enable Barclays to serve more than a bare denial of liability as a Defence. The statement of Case would appear to be an abuse of process and / or will obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings and it does not appear to comply with CPR r16.2.

• The defendant respectfully requests an order that the claim be struck out pursuant to CRP r3.4 as it does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim and is abuse of the Courts procedure.

• If an order to strike out is not considered to be appropriate, to the extent it is alleged that the Claimant incurred bank charges on the Claimants account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques “paid referral fees” or any other such fees), the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

• The particulars of Claim are summary in nature. Accordingly, this defence is summary in nature and the Defendant reserves the right to amend this Statement of Case in due course.

• The Defendant is entitled to charge the Claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The Claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):
  • The Defendant’s right to charge a “paid referral fee” where the Defendant pay’s an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25)
    
  • The Defendants right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient funds in the account - £35 per item (previously £30)
    
  • The Defendants entitlement, if the Claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

• The defendants standard terms and conditions give the Claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the Claimant Exceeds the authorised overdraft limit)

• If and to the extent it is the Claimants case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits and / or failure to arrange an authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that that contractual entitlement to debit charges from the Claimants account constitutes a liquidated damages clause., the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the Claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of the account and were consideration for the Defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the Defendant was under no obligation to advance. The Defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred overdraft.

• Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges are constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, (or any other provision).

• Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.

• If and to the extent the Claimant incurred charges on the account this was caused by the Claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant an authorised overdraft facility or to increase the overdraft facility and / or the failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back to credit.

• It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and the Defendant was entitled to debit the same.

• The defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded at all. In the alternative if (which is denied) the said charges are unenforceable and constituted a breach of contract by the Defendant those charges which were applied to the account prior to 12th June 2001 are not recoverable because they are time barred under the terms of the Limitation Act 1980 in that more than six years have elapsed since the accrual of the cause of action.

• In the alternative, and without prejudice to matters stated above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the Claimant or at all, and the charges were a consequence of the breach of contract by the Claimant, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of such breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the Defendant is unable to rely on its express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant.

 

I am sorry this is so long winded, but rather than pick bits out I thought it would be best to copy it all down.

 

I feel like I have done this all wrong, because from reading through this I have no chance in hell of getting any money back from them at all. I am beginning to wish I had just taken the goodwill gesture.

 

What do I need to do from here?

 

There has been no court date advice and no information telling me what to do from here?

 

Am I fighting a losing battle?

 

Many thanks if you have sat and read through all this. Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

Rach

[animaleyes76]

Hey Rachael,

 

don't worry. the defence is pretty much textbook (pretty much the same as mine too). We are both pretty much at exactly the same stage. As part of the defence is that they do not have a copy of the charges you are claiming send another copy by recorded delivery to the barclays litigation team. What did you enter as your particulars of claim form (in relation to their first 3 poiints) They are basically stating that they are not detailed enough and are trying to have your claim dismissed by the court. Can you post on here asap?

 

Most judges are getting rid of AQ's now as they waste time in these cases. No AQ fee should be payable in your case either as the claim is under £1500

 

Soon you will get a letter from the court with directions from the judge as to the action you need to take.. Don't worry at all! You are right to chase the whole amount as it is YOUR money! Barclays and the rest offer partial settlements because they want you to accept and a lot of people will as they don't want the hassle/scared of the possibility of court.

 

Your directions usually give a court date and will tell you what to do next. Don't worry. When you receive them just post again on here if you are unsure.

 

The main thing is not to worry (easier said than done i know) as there are PLENTY of really good people that will help you.

 

As i said I am only slightly ahead of you. Check my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/79699-animaleyes76-barclays.html

Good luck

[rach_vicky]

Thank you so much for your advice Animal, i am going to read your thread to keep up to date with your progress.

 

i just feel like i am really out of my depth here, but it is nice to have other people to talk things through with.

 

Particulars of the claim - I followed the example given on money saving expert.

 

Between Feb 2003 and June 2006 the

Defendant applied a number of default

charges to the Claimant's current account.

These charges are unlawful because they do

not reflect the true cost of going into an

unauthorized overdraft. Furthermore they

are a breach of the Unfair Terms in

Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 which

state: 'A term is unfair if it requires any

consumer who fails his obligation to pay a

disproportionately high sum in

compensation.'

A charge is deemed to be penalty if, in

reference to the case of Wilson v Love in

1896, it does not reflect the true cost of

an item.

I am entitled to claim interest at 8 per

cent per annum from the date when charges

were first applied to my account until a

judgment is made.

The Claimant asks the court to enter

judgment in their favour for the sum of

£870.00 plus interest of £69.60 total Claim

£939.60

 

Is this where i have gone wrong?

 

Animal you mentioned about sending the charges do i just send the list i have got or shall i send copies of the statements as well?

 

Also i have used the spreadsheet on money saving expert to work out my interest, i have noticed that on this website there is a spreadsheet that works out the interest right up to date, is it too late to use this spreadsheet and add the additional interest? Or can i only claim for the amount i claimed for through MCOL?

 

 

[animaleyes76]

Here is the example of the poc on here. They don't look THAT different. Did yours include your account number anywhere etc? I'd get someone else to advise you on whether you may have to submit an amendment form as I'm not as good on that stuff as some people on here ! Saintly1, Dar£n and Michael Browne where are you lol. Don't worry, one of them will see this shortly lol.

 

You can use the spreadsheet on here and send an updated copy of your charges with interest to B'clays You only need to send the schedule of charges, not the copy of statements.

 

As i say don;t worry because there are LOADS of good people on here! It's a learning curve for us all hey! God i sounded like a corporate tw@t with that learning curve line lol.

 

 

 

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxxxx xx-

xx-xx with the Defendant, opened xx/xx/xxxx

2. Since x/xx/xxxx the Defendant

debited charges and interest in respect of

purported breaches of contract. 3.

Defendant is aware of all details as a list

of charges has already been supplied.

Another copy will be sent. 4. Claimant

contends: (a) The charges exceed the

Defendant's losses caused by the breaches;

(b) The Term permitting the Defendant to

levy such charges is unenforceable under

the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act

1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimant claims:

(a) return of the amounts debited of

£xxxx; (b) Interest per S.69 County

Courts Act 1984 of 8% - £xxxx continuing

at 8% until judgment or settlement at a

daily rate of £xxxx 6. Alternatively, if

the charges are a fee for a service, then

they must be reasonable under S.15 of the

Supply of Goods andServices Act 1982. 7.

Costs allowed by the Court.

[rach_vicky]

Yes there was my account number and sort code on there.

 

Is this the address that i use to send my charges?

Barclays Bank Plc

Legal: Litigation and Disputes

Level 29

One Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

I sent it to my branch orignally with my 1st letter!!! Obviously found it's way filed under B (for bin)

 

Good luck with your claim, and thanks for the advice

[animaleyes76]

Yup that's the right addy. Barclays are just a nightmare. They have complained about the template this site uses on some cases. They just seem to pick random cases to be even more obstructive on . Your poc's could be ok but i'd let one of the 3 peeps i mentioned confirm.

 

No worries re help, anytime

[Trucker]

Hi Rach

 

Welcome to the site. Having read your posts it looks like you have not sent them a Schedule Of Charges. Have a look at the spreadsheets in link below. I would suggest you use the simple one with 8% Interest. You will need 3 copies one for yourself, one for court and one for barclays.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

I notice that you used MSE template for your particulars of claim (POC) via MCOL. We have come across problems with those POC's. You may need to resubmit your POC via form N244, which unfortunately will cost you £35 that is not recoverable. However perhaps saintly or dar£n could comment on them.

 

The schedule of charges (soc's) is a must though#

 

 

(The Platinum Post)

[rach_vicky]

Thanks for your response Trucker.

 

Shall i just send the Schedule of Charges for now? And wait till i am asked to send the poc or shall i change this now?

 

Also using the simple spreadsheet from here, my claim is more than i originally asked for, can i only ask for the amount i put into MCOL or can i adjust the amount?

 

Sorry for all the questions people!!!

[slick132]

Hi Rach Vicky

 

If you want to amend (increase) the amount of your claim, you have to apply to the Court using form N244 - see here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/41901-form-n244-application-notice.html.

 

There is a fee involved (not reclaimable), perhaps £35 or £65.

 

So you need to decide if it's worth it for the amount extra you want to claim.

 

Slick

[saintly_1]

It depends on what has changed ...... if is the interest then thats bound to increase .. as that rises daily

[rach_vicky]

Thanks For your response guys

 

It is the interest that has changed because i originally used the spreadsheet on Money Saving Expert.

 

But also when i have gone back over my charges i have realised that i actually missed a few charges.

[rach_vicky]

OK so i have just printed off my soc ready for posting tomorrow, recorded delivery.

[rach_vicky]

I have got a feeling i have seriously messed up!

 

I did not get time to post my updated SOC yesterday, but last night i got out all the bank statments and went over everything again!

 

There are 3 charges i missed off, and 1 I put down originally as £25.00 should have been £30.00!! So there is now a big difference from my original claim. I would be fine with just sticking with the original amount claimed for, but when it comes to sending in my statements the differences are there!! (if you understand me)

 

I am now comptley baffled! And after reading this site i have got a feeling i have done everything wrong on this claim from the beginning.

 

My intital letters to Barclays gave the amount with the interest! And reading on here this is wrong!

 

What do i need to do??

 

I have a feeling i have blown this, and should just let it go!!

[dar£n]

adding the interest from the beginning is not the crime of the century,,,I did the same and look at me, i'm on my third win...

 

Do you really want to throw it away for the sake of three charges?

either amend your claim [n244 = £35]

or

leave it as it is and live with the £90 or so loss,

 

you are doing fine, just make sure you know what figure it is you are claiming for and stick to it when settling out of court.

[rach_vicky]

Thanks Dar£n, no i have come along way! and dont want to quit just getting panics now!!

 

if i stick with the original amount, my statments are different, so i am worried that this will be noted!

 

I also think i should redo my POC because i used the ones on Money Saving Expert and it does not seem to have as much information as the ones i have seen on here.

 

I think i am going to ammend my claim! Can i ammend the amount and POC in the same form or do i need to send in 2 forms and pay 2 amounts of £35?

 

Last question (sorry guys) when do you advise i change this? Straight away? Or wait for court to contact me?

[tezl]

I have got a feeling i have seriously messed up!

 

I did not get time to post my updated SOC yesterday, but last night i got out all the bank statments and went over everything again!

 

There are 3 charges i missed off, and 1 I put down originally as £25.00 should have been £30.00!! So there is now a big difference from my original claim. I would be fine with just sticking with the original amount claimed for, but when it comes to sending in my statements the differences are there!! (if you understand me)

 

I am now comptley baffled! And after reading this site i have got a feeling i have done everything wrong on this claim from the beginning.

hi, in exactley same boat,my pocs had less on than yours,was advised to re-socs and wait for courts responce.just had court date with ordinary directions.as saintly1 says they know were ordinary people not lawyers.good luck.

!

[dar£n]

 

I think i am going to ammend my claim! Can i ammend the amount and POC in the same form or do i need to send in 2 forms and pay 2 amounts of £35?

 

Do it as soon as you are able to. Using the N244 submit your NEW POC's as a whole, changing ALL information that is necessary, include an updated SOC's when sending it in also.

[rach_vicky]

Thank you Dar£n for your advice, it is much appreciated x

[rach_vicky]

Some more help need guys & gals -

 

I am filling out the POC and a just wanna double check a few points :-

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3 and any interest charged thereon; (in 3 do i put the amount before charges)

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from [date when the money became owed to you] to [the date you are issuing the claim] of £ [amount] and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of [enter the daily rate of interest] (in amount do i put just the interest? )

Sorry guys for being so thick!!

[welshcakes]

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3 and any interest charged thereon; This is your charges + any Overdraft Interest BUT NOT the 8%

 

c) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from [earliest charge date] to [the date you are issuing the claim] of £ [the amount of 8% interest as shown on your SOC up to the date you filed at court] and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of [enter the daily rate of interest]

[rach_vicky]

Thanks welsh cakes

[rach_vicky]

2 last questions people!! (sorry)

 

Can i post the N244 forms or do i have to hand deliver them ?? (i work an hours drive from the court and work full time, so will have to pursuade other half to go for me!)

 

Where can i find out how much the fee is? (i have heard conflicting things, some say £35 some say £65!)

 

Thanks

[dar£n]

County Court Fees

[rach_vicky]

thank you dar£n but i can not seem to find the bit about ammendments on there! (it might just be me)

[welshcakes]

Hi Rach

 

Here is what I have looked up:

 

N244 Form

 

Top left hand box, tick c), "without a hearing"

 

Leave the rest blank

 

Part A:

 

I ***** (the claimant)

 

(that....) allows an amendment to particulars of of the claim and in respect of the basis of the claim.

 

(because....) the claimant is now aware that the basis of the original claim was not fully stated and the claimant was previously unaware of the interest element of the charges.

 

Part B:

 

tick 'evidence in part C' box

 

Part C:

 

 

"I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim in respect of the basis of the claim and an increase of the claims value. The increase in the amount claimed has recently become evident due to additional information coming to light since the original claim.

 

Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, amended to better describe the basis on which my claim is founded and to represent the increase of the claims value, as well as an amended schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant"

 

 

Write out new particulars including your name and claim number at the top and a statement of truth at the bottom. Take 2 copies of everything then attach the SOC to the N244 and take the original and one copy to the court along with the £35 fee.