MBNA/Alliance Leicester Credit Card

[alfwithhair]

Hello again folk,

 

I was wondering if you could give me some advice regarding a debt my wife has with MBNA/Alliance Leicester, as you all helped me immensly with my debt problems.

 

May wife is in the same boat as me, can't offord the repayment on her credit card. She wrote to the 3 months ago to tell them she could not afford the minimum payment as she was on Incapacity Benefit and Income Support. This is the only credit card she has. It was originally taken out with Alliance Leicester, but recently was taken over by MBNA. Although the letters are still headed Alliance Leicester.

 

She owes £6400 to them and told them she would pay them a pro rata payment of £10.79 per month based on her disposable income and has been paying this since the situation arose. They have written to her four times now, but never stated stated if they were accepting to offer or not, just the usual ring this number NOW. They even sent a letter last week saying that they were investigating the complaint against them for telephone harrassment. So they are obiously getting my wifes correspondence.

 

How ever this morning letter arrived headed

 

"INTENTION TO COMMENCE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS"

Contact us immediately to set up a reduced payment plan, if you don't;

 

This will result in a County Court Judgment and either an attachment of earning, Warrant of Execution by a Bailiff or a charge bing placed on your property.

 

Is this just the usual scare tactics like my creditors tried on me to get you to telephone them? I told my wife DO NOT ring them or speak to them on the phone get everything in writting. But having said that my creditors never sent me a letter like this one. So would it be wise to ring them, write to them again or just ignore it.

 

Any help appreciated guys

Alf

[redsue]

Alf - send them a CCA request.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Send out this letter NOW and then you need to do some reading up on the CCA s78 request process - the crux of it is - you ask them to provide you with a copy of your original credit agreement which needs to contain specific prescribed terms.

ie, credit limit, t&cs taken out at time of card, rate of interest charged etc

they 12 working days (+2) for postage to supply them to you. After a further 30 calendar days if they still haven't supplied you with the documents then there are in default and cannot enforce the agreement until they do.

 

I suggest some reading for you on these matters!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html#post742396

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/74733-credit-agreement-application.html#post649450

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources.html#post698228

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/57846-debt-written-off-due.html#post483540

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/84285-ccas-dave-against-world.html#post757767

 

see my thread.Mine is also an A&L card taken out in 1993.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/81907-mbna-ding-ding-round.html#post729106

 

it may be that the account is indeed enforceable but at least it will give you some breathing space.

 

You may want to have a look around the MBNA part of the forum as there is an awful lot of information there - good luck

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Alf - send them a CCA request.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Send out this letter NOW and then you need to do some reading up on the CCA s78 request process - the crux of it is - you ask them to provide you with a copy of your original credit agreement which needs to contain specific prescribed terms.

ie, credit limit, t&cs taken out at time of card, rate of interest charged etc

they 12 working days (+2) for postage to supply them to you. After a further 30 calendar days if they still haven't supplied you with the documents then there are in default and cannot enforce the agreement until they do.

 

 

I wouldn't do this just yet. Just don't pay anything and sit tight until they sell the debt on. Then follow the above procedure. As a rule one should never CCA original creditors (at least not until they sell the debt). If they sue, you ask for the original agreement under the Disclosure Rules. This gives them a tighter time frame than a CCA request and their case will be struck out if they can't produce it before the deadline.

[spindoctor]

Hi Alf

 

I'm new to this site so I don't know how you do things around here but I would say that we need to know a few more details to give meaningful advice.

 

Is this debt her only debt?

 

I presume your wife has sent a 'statement of affairs' to her creditor which will give a statement of income and expenditure and show how much she can afford. If she hasn't then I doubt they will listen to her and will probably issue a county court judgement.

 

You could also contact national debt helpline, CCCS or the CAB.

 

Putting a charge on your property basically turns the unsecured debt into a secured debt and they cannot do this until they have issued a CCJ against you and you then break the agreement of the CCJ.

 

These tactics are nearly always just scare tactics but they could use them if they wanted. They don't really want to go down this route because they are taking the risk that by ignoring your wifes request to accept £10 per month, the judge may come down hard on them and only ask for £5 per month.

 

How long is your wife wanting the creditor to accept this debt management plan for?

 

Do you have equity in your house?

 

If you don't have any equity in your house and the dmp is only a temporary measure until your wife gets back on her feet then I would suggest sticking it out and calling there bluff. In this case they know that there is not much they can do to make you pay what you don't have - you could just declare bankrupt and they would not have anything.

 

However, if you do have equity in your house and you're expecting this dmp to go on indefinately, they will probably go straight to the courts to try to get at your equity.

 

Crezzie

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

[alfwithhair]

Thanks guy for your help

Just to clarify some points form the initial post.

 

Yes this is my wife only debt.

 

Yes she has sent them income and expenditure sheets twice and wrote to them five times. They never reply. Just send letters saying she has failed to contact them.

 

There is no equity in our house, it is rented.

 

There is no propect of her income changing until at least August 2008.

 

Hope this helps.

Regards

Alf

[redsue]

They never reply. Just send letters saying she has failed to contact them.

 

welcome to the world of MBNA

[spindoctor]

Alf

 

Who advised your wife to embark on a debt management plan? £6,000 isn't a vast amount but if you are living on benefits and can only afford £10 per month then it may as well be £60,000.

 

You say that her situation will change in August 2008. If she can up the amount to at least £100 per month then and manage to keep the interest frozen for the full term (very unlikely), she can pay it off in 5 years which doesn't seem too bad.

 

Unless she can do the above then I would look into bankruptcy.

 

Crezzie

[alfwithhair]

Wife had a reply today from MBNA, well Alliance Leicester headed, but same thing.

 

Regarding the complaint about telephone harrassment they said it had been noted that she requested to communicate in writting only, but there are times when they may need to contact her by phone so the contact number will remain on record. So another complaint brushed under the carpet there I think.

 

Now comes the confusing crap:

 

"As you advised in your last letter that you would accept calls from us. I have collected the necessary information through a review of your credit file. We are entitled to do this under the terms of your account with us. I must stress that we have made an exception in case for your benefit"

 

 

What are they on about?

 

"As a result I have been able to confirm a pro-rata payment for your account of £53.00 per month based on the outstanding balances of £2146.00". Thats funny she owes them £6400.00.

 

"They also see that we are paying are other creditors £60.67 a month" Do we? how do they work this out. So the £10.79 she pays a month is not enought as they want a pro-rata payment. Well they are getting a pro-rata payment based on our dissposable income, not theres. LOL.

 

Then they prattle on to say they cannot accept this low payment they want 0.8% of the balance ie £53.00

Then they say in one paragraph that they will not suspend the interest and charges or accept the payment offered. But then say "we reccommend you continue to pay what you can afford" in another.

 

Then to top it all the last line of the 3 page manuscript says.

 

"Although your offer is insufficeint to prevent a default being issued, I have arranged for interest and charges to be suppressed on this account"

 

This letter makes as much sense as MFI assembly instructions.

So she my wife just let it ride now and see what happens or get some more letters of to them.

 

Cheer

Alf

[alfwithhair]

Got another letter from A&L/MBNA this morning. Some progress is being made, but I would like a bit of advice regarding their wording on a couple of points.

 

They state that

 

"they have been informed of our financial difficulties and as a result are suppressing fees and interest on the account"

 

One bit of good news, but then they say

 

"However, you are not on a formal reduced payment arrangement which means your account is continuing to fall into arrears. Whilst we understand your difficult situation, if we cannot set a level of re-payment that is suitable to you, we will be required to write off your balance as a bad debt"

 

Then in the next paragraph they say,

 

"The debt will be legally assigned to a third party for recovery action"

 

How can they assign a debt that is written off? I thought once it was writen off, that was end end of the debt?

Then a couple of lines about the usual crap, contact us immediately on this number, even though they have been told a dozen times we do not discuss these matters over the phone.

 

"We need to discuss with you the situation and set up a repayment programme for you. It maybe we need just a small increase on what you are currently paying"

 

Well we have offered and been paying all we can afford to them, so an increase is out of the question and we have been asking them to set up this re-payment programme for months. What speaking to them on the phone is going to achieve, I have no idea.

 

"In the meantime we appreciate that we are making every effort to continue addressing the situation by at least making some level of payment to your account"

 

So I am a bit confussed with this letter to say the least. They are suppressing the fees and charges, yet no arrangement is in place? They will write the debt off, but sell it to someone else?

 

Your veiws and comment would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

Alf

[The Lantana]

They're idiots at MBNA.

 

They were stitched up like kippers by Alliance and Leicester when they bought the Alliance and Leicester card portfolio a few years back.

 

Although payingonlyencouragesthem has suggested an excellent strategy of waiting for the debt to be sold on before applying for your cca, I'd personally be tempted to go for it now - I have yet to see an enforceable Alliance and Leicester card agreement.

 

If they haven't got an enforceable agreement you can ignore them or play games with them as you wish - you have control.

 

If they have an enforceable agreement you can continue to pay £10 pm. A ccj would be pointless from their perspective so long as you stick to a repayment plan - they won't get more than £10 pm with a ccj, given your wife is on benefit.

 

Given your circumstances outlined above, you really have little to worry about.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[alfwithhair]

So I should CCA them now and not wait until they sell the debt on to who ever. As a matter of interest does any one who who A&L/MBNA use as a DCA?

 

Is the fact that we are paying the a token payment not an acceptance that the debt exsists? I understand the reason behind a CCA to a DCA. But do not see any benefit will be gained from a CCA to the original creditor, surely they can produce proof of the debt if asked. Also do we stop payment after sending the CCA until they provide the necessary documents?

 

Alf

[PriorityOne]

Got another letter from A&L/MBNA this morning. Some progress is being made, but I would like a bit of advice regarding their wording on a couple of points.

 

They state that

 

"they have been informed of our financial difficulties and as a result are suppressing fees and interest on the account"

 

That's nice....

One bit of good news, but then they say

 

"However, you are not on a formal reduced payment arrangement which means your account is continuing to fall into arrears. Whilst we understand your difficult situation, if we cannot set a level of re-payment that is suitable to you, we will be required to write off your balance as a bad debt"

 

It means... if you don't send what they want you to send, they will sell it to a DCA

 

Then in the next paragraph they say,

 

"The debt will be legally assigned to a third party for recovery action"

 

There you go !

 

How can they assign a debt that is written off? I thought once it was writen off, that was end end of the debt? It means that it is written off with them, but in doing so they sell it and then gain through tax advantages on top...

Then a couple of lines about the usual crap, contact us immediately on this number, even though they have been told a dozen times we do not discuss these matters over the phone. Ah yes, but they can only intimidate you over the 'phone... that's why they try and get you to do it.

 

"We need to discuss with you the situation and set up a repayment programme for you. It maybe we need just a small increase on what you are currently paying" In their dreams, I'm sure they would...

 

Well we have offered and been paying all we can afford to them, so an increase is out of the question and we have been asking them to set up this re-payment programme for months. What speaking to them on the phone is going to achieve, I have no idea. As said, so that they can intimidate you into increasing payments...

 

"In the meantime we appreciate that we are making every effort to continue addressing the situation by at least making some level of payment to your account" Oh, pass the sick bucket... they are creeping now... .. you usually get this kind of behaviour when they are having a last-ditched attempt to see how much more they can extract out of you (over the 'phone), before accepting that they're not going to get what they want from you after all... so best to flog it on.

 

So I am a bit confussed with this letter to say the least. They are suppressing the fees and charges, yet no arrangement is in place? They will write the debt off, but sell it to someone else? Pretty much.

 

Your veiws and comment would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

Alf

 

[PriorityOne]

So I should CCA them now and not wait until they sell the debt on to who ever. As a matter of interest does any one who who A&L/MBNA use as a DCA?

It has to be your decision whether to CCA now or wait for it to be sold....

 

Is the fact that we are paying the a token payment not an acceptance that the debt exsists? It makes no difference... a CCA would still be needed in order to have it re-enforced in court. I understand the reason behind a CCA to a DCA. But do not see any benefit will be gained from a CCA to the original creditor, That depends on whether the original creditor is getting sh*tty with you or not and threatening to go for a CCJ ,etc. surely they can produce proof of the debt if asked. Not always, no. Also do we stop payment after sending the CCA until they provide the necessary documents? After 12 working days from rec. delivery receipt of your request, yes.

 

Alf

 

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

It will probably be sold to Lowells. This being the case I would hold fire on the CCA until it's sold. Lowells generally weed their portfolio pretty well and wouldn't bother chasing a debt owed by a tenant on benefit with no credit agreement.

[The Lantana]

They sold mine to Arrow Global, who are trying to collect through BCW and gpb solicitors.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

They sold mine to Arrow Global, who are trying to collect through BCW and gpb solicitors.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

That's interesting - I wonder if Lowells have wised up or if they have just started spreading the muck a bit thinner.

[The Lantana]

Arrow Global are part owned by Bank of America, who also own MBNA. It maybe Lowells are wising up - if you're any good as a dca you won't waste your time, or it could be Bank of America sort of keeping things in-house. MBNA 'sold' my account in May this year.

 

Either way, no cca = no enforceable debt.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[FANTASY CHARGES]

any update ???

seem to have a difference of opinion here ??

 

 

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THINK SOMEONE SHOULD TELL CREDIT TODAY ABOUT THEIR "MARIE CELESTE" GHOST ADDRESS