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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Bus lane fine - please help


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Just a quick two questions about about these bus lane PCNs:

 

1) What time limit do they have to issue the PCN from the date of the contravention?

 

2) If the surname is spelled incorrectly, two letter swapped round - is the PCN still valid?

 

Thanks for your help

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One other question for anyone that can help, the PCN states that to take advantage of TfL's bargain 50% discount :confused: I need to pay within 14 days of its receipt. Given that I have made a representation instead I'm not absolutely sure where that leaves me should I lose my appeal - since I assume I'm not likely to get a response before the 14 days are up. I would be livid if by doing this I run the risk of paying the full whack. The PCN suggests that so long as I make my representation within 14 days I should be OK, but is that definitely the case?

 

Thanks

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One other question for anyone that can help, the PCN states that to take advantage of TfL's bargain 50% discount :confused: I need to pay within 14 days of its receipt. Given that I have made a representation instead I'm not absolutely sure where that leaves me should I lose my appeal - since I assume I'm not likely to get a response before the 14 days are up. I would be livid if by doing this I run the risk of paying the full whack. The PCN suggests that so long as I make my representation within 14 days I should be OK, but is that definitely the case?

 

Thanks

I think the normal thing is that if your informal representations they will give you a further 14 days to pay at the reduced rate starting from the date the rejection notice was served.

 

You have the choice of then paying up or making a formal appeal (and losing the discounted rate).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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  • 2 months later...

ARGH! I'm so annoyed. I've just received a PCN for the exact same spot. The photo clearly shows me on a piece of road that says 'Bus Stop' just after zig zag lines.

 

I remember specifically not entering the bus lane earlier in the road because you weren't allowed to. Then I entered here because I thought I was allowed. It's very unclear.

 

Has anyone else successfully appealed or shall I just pay while it's £60 instead of £120? I would rather be spending the money on something else. :-(

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ARGH! I'm so annoyed. I've just received a PCN for the exact same spot. The photo clearly shows me on a piece of road that says 'Bus Stop' just after zig zag lines.

 

I remember specifically not entering the bus lane earlier in the road because you weren't allowed to. Then I entered here because I thought I was allowed. It's very unclear.

 

Has anyone else successfully appealed or shall I just pay while it's £60 instead of £120? I would rather be spending the money on something else. :-(

 

There is no 'bus lane ends' sign so you cannot just assume that the Bus Stop is not a part of the bus lane.

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the TSRGD is not guidance. It is a Statutory Instrument.

 

check out davies v heatley

 

Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the contravention of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not as prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind

 

councils hate that one for some reason

 

Parking News Archive: Davies v Heatley [1971] RTR 145 QBD 4th Feb 1971

:)

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the TSRGD is not guidance. It is a Statutory Instrument.

 

check out davies v heatley

 

Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the contravention of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not as prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind

 

councils hate that one for some reason

 

Parking News Archive: Davies v Heatley [1971] RTR 145 QBD 4th Feb 1971

:)

 

 

Exactly therefore the bus lane is valid the TSRGD states that the markings must cease prior to a zig zag and re-start after. This does not mean that bus stops and crossings are not part of the Bus Lane, I cannot see how anyone would think a Bus Stop would not be in a Bus Lane, why would anyone create a Bus Lane and then stop it immediately before a Bus Stop? If the Bus Lane markings continued thru the crossing it would be contary to the TRSGD which would be ilegal, as it is as you state THE LAW!

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I'm not an expert on the law and most of the regulations seem like a foreign language. However, it seems to me that when experienced drivers who are trying to obey the rules are being caught out at the same spot, something isn't right there.

 

I've never received a speeding fine, PCN, had any points on my license or even (excluding my first months as a driver) had a parking ticket. I'm no saint but I try to avoid getting fined.

 

It seemed like a new bus lane with different rules. In future I'll look out for a 'bus lane ends' sign.

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Hi Bianca1771 (or anyone),

Just got caught 3 times by this camera the other week and have appealed, using some of the arguments posted above, so fingers crossed. Also I visited the site and was intrigued to discover that the bus lane ends just 20m from the traffic lights for the left turn into Brixton Road. I have read on the DfT website that bus lanes should end 30m ahead of a major left turn, so I believe it actually contravenes DfT regulations, which I have pointed out. I'd be very interested to know if you appealed to the adjudicators (assuming my first attempt is unsuccessful).

Thanks!

Have you had any luck with this yet? I wrote to them about haw many PCN's have been issued from that one camera, 19731 in the last 12 months alone is the answer I got back there has to be inadequet markings etc to issue this number.

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Have you had any luck with this yet? I wrote to them about haw many PCN's have been issued from that one camera, 19731 in the last 12 months alone is the answer I got back there has to be inadequet markings etc to issue this number.

 

Even if the Camera was only in force 12 hours a day thats only 4.5 vehicles an hour do NOT understand the signs, considering the road has a constant flow of traffic during the day the vast majority do realise its a Bus Lane.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, I found this thread while searching for advice on getting a totally unexpected bus lane PCN on the (apparently infamous) Camberwell New Road.

I emailed the council asking them to send me documentary evidence of this, as I was convinced I had not gone into a bus lane.

I heard nothing back for several weeks, but got a letter this morning telling me that due to a 'processing error' my penalty charge had been cancelled.

I'd strongly reccommend everyone ask for evidence of their offence. I've no doubt I'd be £120 poorer if I hadn't sent that email.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all.... I too had a PCN issued for this exact spot...

 

I emailed them this... and they cancelled it.

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I am writing to you to make representations against a Penalty Charge Notice that I received recently from TFL Croydon.

 

The Reference Number is GT27274933

 

The reason that I feel that this Penalty Charge Notice is unfair is simply because the road markings and signage are not comprehensive and clear enough in this instance.

 

All across London and indeed around the area that the alleged contravention took place a Bus Lane is divided from the normal traffic lane by a thick white line. As you can see from the CCTV pictures that you have of my vehicle, I changed lanes approaching a set of traffic lights where the thick white line had stopped.

 

The thick white line then continues for what can only be a few metres before the traffic lights, where if you are trying to be a competent and safe road user you should have selected the relevant and most suitable lane in which to continue your journey. As you are aware, the junction in question is filled with a large yellow boxed area and many people in this instance, and indeed the pictures, are filtering right causing a great deal of congestion.

 

There is a very small sign indicating the end of the bus lane which is not clearly readable from where I changed lanes and there is absolutely no question that I was deliberately flouting the Road Traffic Act or Highway Code.

 

In my observations the thick white line doesn't disappear at any other pedestrian crossing in the area, so why is this an exception ?

 

This is from the TFL appeals process pdf...

 

 

Other considerations for representations

We recognise that there are other reasons for you to challenge a

A representation made on this basis would be rejected by us unless

the vehicle drove in the bus lane for less than 20 metres prior to

making the left turn. We would confirm this by viewing the video

evidence available. It is important to note that there is an

exemption in the Traffic Management Order, which allows a vehicle

to enter a bus lane under these circumstances. This is taken into

consideration when enforcing all bus lanes.

 

 

I would like to know how long the bus lane is before the junction and would be more than happy to go and measure it myself if necessary as I am absolutely certain that it is less than 20 metres.

 

Is the Traffic Enforcement Officer in question aware of your guidelines as written on the TFL website ?

 

I have also found a website with a great deal of posts on it's forum about this very location and allegedly you have received over £2 million in fines and caught over 20,000 motorists with this camera. It is also said to be the highest earning camera in London, a coincidence ? I don't think so.

 

One such case is absolutely identical to mine and the pictures are posted there with only the vehicle being different to my case. They appealed to yourselves and the PCN was cancelled as it was adjudged, as I indeed also feel, to be inadequately signed.

 

I hope that this email finds you well and trust that I have eloquently and clearly stated my grounds for appeal and the PCN is cancelled.

 

Should these representations be rejected then please treat this as a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for the following documents:

 

a) A copy of the bus lane order or regulation giving effect to the Bus Lane.

 

b) A copy of the Safety Audit for this road layout.

 

c) A copy of the engineer’s scale diagrams showing the layout of this Bus Lane, the road markings and the signage (including warnings of camera enforcement).

 

d) Copies of any approvals of deviations of signage from TSRGD.

 

e) Logs of maintenance visits verifying existence and condition of the signs.

 

f) Certification of type approval of the CCTV device.

 

g) Details of the number of times that the videotape used has been degaussed and reused.

 

h) A copy of the Camera Enforcement logbook recording the alleged contravention.

 

i) Copies of the still images showing all the required information in the correct order.

 

j) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location.

 

k) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled by them following informal challenges.

 

l) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled by them following formal appeal to them.

 

m) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled following appeal to a PATAS adjudicator.

 

n) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and not pursued by them for any other reason.

 

I will then pass them to my legal team for further appeal.

 

Thank you for your time, I hope to hear from you soon

 

Warmest Regards

 

 

 

BTW... my 'legal team' consists of advice from my Dad who is a lawyer.... :-D

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Despite the numerous posts and victims in this thread it still isn't clearly defined whether or not the Bus Lane is correctly signed. Pics seem unavailable now? what about the two 'commencement' signs? are they there?

Strada, well done. I think you actually got 'em by frightening them off with the request for stats! rather than any technicality. Useful ploy and I just loved the "warmest regards". LOL.

-

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  • 2 months later...

Guys, I'm so sorry it has taken this long for me to put up any update regarding my case with TFL for the PCN's received on Camberwell Road J\W Brixton road, I know a lot of people have been left with a hole in there pocket and some cynics on this forum, have been against some who try and get leverage on their time and busy life by driving.

 

Also some have simply said yes! I won my case, however they refused to show integrity by helping others. In my case, I had the confidence to fight back against my initial 4 PCN's on this stretch of the within 2 days and I lost out on 2, having had to pay the discounted price on the first one, the second & 3rd I paid the full price.

 

Then a 6 month afterwards I was sent a further 8 for the same period with the first 4 which made me furious, as I knew it was now becoming expensive to travel on the Camberwell road and I completely avoided the road and I knew something had to be done, due to not being able to convince the ADJUDICATOR initially, so I kept fighting till the ADJUDICATOR decided to put a hold on the further 8 PCN'S and visited the ** STRETCH OF ROAD ** with the markings himself.

 

This took me 1 year and after all the finding the ADJUDICATOR told TFL they were in the wrong for a few reasons and ordered them to cancel the all the 12 PCN'S they gave me and refund all my money totalling £180.00, what upset me a bit was that if the money had been in a bank account they will at least have given me interest.

 

Finally, I want you all to know that you can claim all your money back, using the single cases used a s a precedent and the new precedent I had set, making it 2 defence that this will make anyone’s case valid, as that was my saving Grace, so "with God on your side who can be against you".

 

I will be uploading necessary documentation required to help you appeal to the ADJUDICATOR to have all your cases re-opened and reviewed.

 

In the meantime, you might want to look up the case "salt coy v TFL "

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Oh! lest I forget, they have now changed the direction of the camera now to face Kenilworth road and the one on Kenilworth road, overlooks the park now, due to the evidence I got in form of photographs from this site and the one's I went around collecting from different borough's that had the required signage and display to help motorist complete there journey's safely

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  • 1 month later...
Finally, I want you all to know that you can claim all your money back, using the single cases used a s a precedent and the new precedent I had set, making it 2 defence that this will make anyone’s case valid, as that was my saving Grace, so "with God on your side who can be against you".

 

I will be uploading necessary documentation required to help you appeal to the ADJUDICATOR to have all your cases re-opened and reviewed.

 

Hi there, are these docs uploaded anywhere yet?

 

( and... how/where can I look up Salt Coy vs TFL? )

 

Thanks!

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  • 8 months later...

I have received a letter today saying I was seen in a Bus lane by one of these cameras. Is the law the same as it is when you get a speeding fine? For example a notice of intended prosecution has to be served within 14 days of the offence? The date of the offence was 28th Aug and the notice was sent out on 15th sept.

 

Any feedback on this would be welcome. Many thanks

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I have received a letter today saying I was seen in a Bus lane by one of these cameras. Is the law the same as it is when you get a speeding fine? For example a notice of intended prosecution has to be served within 14 days of the offence? The date of the offence was 28th Aug and the notice was sent out on 15th sept.

 

Any feedback on this would be welcome. Many thanks

they have 28 days to send out postal tickets from the date the incident occured.

 

there are expemtions for being in a bus lane mate, what happened here??

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I was like everyone else in a town I was nt famililar with, had to make a delivery, could nt turn left as it was Buses only, but the right turn was blocked, by a delivery truck and a bus. behind me I had taxis and buses sounding their horns for me to get out the way but I had no where to go, therefore my only option was to use the bus lane by turning left!

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I was like everyone else in a town I was nt famililar with, had to make a delivery, could nt turn left as it was Buses only, but the right turn was blocked, by a delivery truck and a bus. behind me I had taxis and buses sounding their horns for me to get out the way but I had no where to go, therefore my only option was to use the bus lane by turning left!

was there a vehicle broken down, blocking the way forward

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Yes there was an obstruction, and I could nt turn right, other wise I was holding up the traffic behind me, which was mainly buses and taxis, which had the authority to turn left, therefore I was forced to turn left. I am going to appeal but I dont know how I will fair!

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  • 1 year later...

This site is v close to me. It appears the camera is facing up the Camberwell New Rd towards the bus lane once again, i.e. pointing south away from Oval station. Obviously, the money this one makes is too good to miss. I'm all for it catching people deliberately hogging the bus lane but as we can see it is catching those who have no idea they are committing and offence and who would never deliberately do so. OTH, to get caught twice would be stupid and repeatedly would be moronic, regardless of where or how.

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