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    • Please see my witness statement below.  Please let me know what modifications I need to apply.  I haven't included anything related to "administrative charge while paying by credit or debit card" as I wasn't sure if I should include since sign says "it may apply"   Background  1.1 Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of November 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.    Contract  2.1 No Locus Standi, I do not believe a contract exists with the landowner that gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” From PoFA (Protection of Freedoms Act) 2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-  (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or  (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44  For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.    Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed  3.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.  3.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.  3.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.  3.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.    Unfair PCN  4.1         As stipulated in Exhibit 1 (Pages 7-13) sent by DCB Legal following the defendant’s CPR request the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows £60.00 parking charge notice and will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue. The defendant puts it to the claimant a request for strict proof when the signage changed to show £100.00 parking charge as the evidence provided by DCB Legal stipulated £60.00 parking charge was indeed the parking charge at the time defendant parked and included in Exhibit 1   4.3        The Claimant did not respect PAPLOC   4.4        It is also unfair to delay litigation for so long and claim nearly four years' interest.    No Keeper Liability  5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.  5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.    5.3        The claimant did not mention parking period instead only mentioned time 20:25 which is not sufficient to qualify as a parking period.   Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  The notice must -  (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;      No Breach of Contract  6.1      No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY.  6.2        The wording “Electric Bay Abuse” is not listed on their signs nor there is any mention on the contract of any electric charging points at all let alone who can park there or use them.    Double Recovery  7.1        As well as the original £100 parking charge and £50 allowed court/legal costs, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  7.2        PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper”. Which in this case is £100.  7.3        The Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 is also quite clear that the maximum amount recoverable is £100.  Government ministers and government web pages explaining the Act refer to extra charges as "a rip off".  7.4        Unless the Claimant can clearly demonstrate how these alleged additional costs have been incurred this would appear to be an attempt at double recovery.  7.5        Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery i.e. Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since the sum £85 was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of all the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court V Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practise continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (...) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6        In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating “It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgement in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a addi8onal sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.  7.7        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  7.8        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  7.9        The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the PoFA AND THE CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.    In Conclusion  8.1        I believe the Claimant has got use to intimidation tactics and has got greedy. I believe the truth of the manor is the Claimant has used bullying tactics successfully for too long and is therefore assured that innocent drivers will fall into the trap of paying rather than going through the hours it takes to defend themselves. In the process, wasting the time of the Court, the time of the Defendant and everyone else who has advised the Defendant, out of sheer decency to help have a fair hearing and see justice delivered.  8.2        I am still in disbelief that I am being heard in this court, defending myself nearly 4 years after receiving a charge through my door. I have had to spend weeks’ worth of my life studying the letter of the law in order to defend myself from this ridiculous attempt at a swindle.  8.3        I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 
    • 'I thought why don’t we give it a try?' said student Swapnil Shrivastav, after inspiration struck during water rations.View the full article
    • honestly he/she just makes these ppc look so stupid everytime   fairplay lfi
    • Women share their stories of how they feel renting has held them back in life.View the full article
    • First, the Entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract. so it only  is an offer to treat.  Second, the sign does say % hours free without mentioning that it is also the maximum time one can stay. it would be logical to presume that there would be a fee for staying longer-but not £100. Looking at the PCN-as usual it does not comply with the protection of freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. First it does not specify the parking period since their figure includes driving from the entrance to the parking space, then later driving from the driving space to the exit. Second it does not inform the keeper that the driver is expected to pay the charge Section 9 [2]] (b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full; What that means is that you as keeper are no longer liable to pay the charge-only the driver is. As anyone with a valid insurance can drive your car they will have difficulty proving who was driving especially as you haven't appealed. In addition the Courts should your case get that far, do not accept that the driver and the keeper ae the same person. So just relax and ignore all their threats even from their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors.  Just do not ignore a Letter of Claim if you get one of those-come back to us so that you can send a snotty letter.
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me v virgin


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Hiya all. Recieved my statements today which was the result of my sars. I do believe there should have been some more info than statements but will deal with this.

 

Have added up all the non ddr fees and the late payment charges and they total £215.00

 

Do i now just do standard 1st letter reclaiming money back and just adjust it?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

 

karen

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Basically, yes - however you have to give them the opportunity to explain the charge is justified before you can move on to the reclamation phase. Point out the total costs you've incurred and ask them to confirm their costings for process your non-DD payments. When they don't, you then send them your LBA and start the ball rolling.

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Thanks very much buzby. I already have a letter stating there charges are in proportion to there costs but couldnt provide breakdown..

So will get on with prelim letter.

thanks once again

 

karen

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  • 1 month later...

As I use the Scottish procedure, I can't help with Mcol as we don't use it. However, you just state the nature of your complaint, just the brief facts, what you are claiming for, and leave the rest to the court. VM will most likely settle on receipt of the court documentation.

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Help please anyone!!!!!!!!

 

I have a managing director from telewest phoning me at 6.30pm tonight to discuss the late payment fees and non ddr fees. Have just spoken to a customer care bloke who is going to put a £9 credit on to my account each month to cover the late payment charge each month nearly.

They wont budge on the previous late payment charges. I asked for a breakdown of how they came to the £10 and they told me it is to cover the phone and letter fees and as an incentive to pay on time.

 

I asked where in the contract had i signed to say that i would be paying the late payment charges of £10.00 and they told me a letter would have been sent out when virgin took over and the late payment charge came into force.

 

The thing is i sent a sar to virgin and no where in what i recieved from them was a copy of a letter stating that they would be now charging a £10.00 late payment fee.

 

I need help with putting my argument across and im not very assertive and no good at arguments lol.

 

help please

 

 

karen

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Karen - Don't Panic! The charge was well promoted, but that's not the point, it was applied to your account without your express agreement. You didn;t ask for it, it was imposed. Ireland has already prohibited firms from charging different amounts depending on payment method, if it's good enough for them - then clearly it is good enough for us.

 

You have the right to control who has access to your bank account, Virgin Media has no track record to speak of - say you'll reconsider in 12 months, but only if their billing system has not created incorrect bills during the period.

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when i was on the phone to them earlier all the bloke kept saying was run your account in order and you wont get the charges. I dont know how to answer that really.

 

Hes made it quite clear that when this manager phones me back he will say exactly the same and will not refund these charges.

 

Am i agreeing that they should make charges just not this amount of what??

 

panicking now. half hour to go

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Hiya, Well call went bad. I ended up in tears through frustration at getting passed from pillar to post. I spoke to 8 different people on Friday regarding charges. I have got one late payment charge refunded but they will not refund any more

 

If i run my account in order i wouldnt get charged basically.

 

Apparantly they have no way of refunding charges. Regarding the non ddr fee they add i explained all the errors that had happened on my bill this year alone and said that if in six months there wasnt no further errors i would consider swapping to ddr but for now no way.. The man just told me tough basically.

 

I explained my situation financially and told them that the 10 per month late payment fee and the 5 per month non ddr fee is a lot of money to me.Its the equivalent of my sons dinner money for two weeks. No sympathy there.

 

I asked how much notice i have to give to cancel services with them and its 30 days. The man is going to ring me back wednesday to see what i want to do.

 

I cant find anyone that has actually started court proceedings against virgin media so dont really know what to do next.

 

Any help would be appreciated

 

karen

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Hi Karen,

 

First of all I would like to say that I sympathise with your plight since I am in the same situation and I thoroughly support your attempt to get these crooks to refund these charges.

 

However I think you should not panic and there is certainly no need to cry, on the contrary you should make them understand you have the upper hand.

 

I'm sending them a preliminary letter tomorrow and see how that goes. What I basically intend to do is send them a few letters (prelim asking them to explain their costs/request for refunds/LBA) stating clearly what the remedies are and then file a claim in court. I think this will cost me $60. If I lose then so be it!!

 

I know I am right (morally) so I have no fear of confronting these gangsters. Since the death of Brezhnev, there are two Mr Niets left in this world: Vladimir Putin and me!!! Nothing but a full refund will do. I'll just try to keep it simple: Refund or court. Full stop.

 

However I don't know if i'm right legally speaking... and this is why I will seek the opinion of a judge if they don't settle.

 

I'll keep you guys posted in my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/109948-reclaiming-charge-virgin-media.html

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Well guess what? I didnt get the call back. I have just sent a lovely email to steve stewart who apparantly is high up in the customer concern team.

He probably wont even get to read the email but i think now i have exhausted all other option apart from court action.

 

I just dont feel confident though replying to them on the phone stating that if i pay on time i wont get these fees. Also one of the numerous people i spoke to friday said well we know you have a bank account because you pay on your bank card so why not set up a ddr.

 

I tried to explain all the errors that had happened this year alone and that was the reason i wouldnt set up a ddr. But they wasnt interested.

 

Will keep you posted if i get a response. Not really sure how long to give him to response but will see.

 

karen

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They do refund non DD fees.

 

I asked for a comparison of costs between DD & CC. When they said that DD was free to them, I told them that I didn't believe them, and that customer services were obviously involved in administering DDs, were they using non DD charges to subsidise DD paying customers. Eventually I got them refunded.

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There is always a cost, their description of 'free' however needs to be qualified slightly - they receive the full value remitted by the customer (or in reality, taken by them). This also hold true for money paid over the counter (if they had one) or remitting by cheque. All other card payments are paid with a percentage taken off for processing by the finance house, so VM do not receive full value of the payment. HOWEVER there is a good argument that since these costs are those incurred by VM it is they who should pay the fees as a consequence of doing business.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hiya just to update i never receieved any reply from steve steward. Last Wednesday i paid my bill of £180.00. I gave the money to my sister to pay in her bank account and then i phoned using her card on the automated line. I dont have a card. On friday my sister has checked her bank and they have taken the £180.00 out twice.

I couldnt beleive it. I phoned them straight away. The man that answereds response was on well it has put your account in credit now.

They are going to refund the money but it will take 3-7 days.

 

I told the bloke this is why i dont pay by ddr. And hes answer was well you get the money back.

 

Anyway ive had no more response regarding the late payment charges and the non ddr fees so i dont know wether to move on to mcol. I cant find anyone that has actually done this. I dont know what my chances are of getting any of this back.

 

Any help would be appreciated

 

karen

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Unfortunately paying by card is just as bad than providing a DD - with the latter you at least get a laughable 'guarantee' that can sometimes be used to enforce a repayment. With cards, they can pretty well manage to empty your account and you have to sort out the mess with them, not your bank! There is also the additional problem that they will have retained this card number, and if you are late or don't pay they'll debit the card again without giving notice.

 

You may have to go the MCOL route (as I did with SKY) but if your reason for NOT giving them DD access to your account is because of their inaccurate billing, it is very hard for them to justify their penalty charges for non DD!

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Hiya buzby, Im sorry i dont understand the last paragraph.

 

How did you get on with sky? What was you claiming back if you dont mind me asking was it late payment charges or non ddr fees.

 

Im still looking to see if anyone has had any luck with virgin media. I do believe its luck with them because whatever member of staff you speak to will tell you different and different reasons.

 

will keep you posted

 

karen

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The full story is here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/29691-sky-subscriber-services.html?highlight=sky+subscriber+services

 

There appears to be only one department capable of resolving these issues at VM, and they are not 'customer facing'. It is only when you get close to taking them to court, or have raised a formal action do you get on to these folk, who have the power to right all these wrongs fairly quickly!

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