SLC Cannot Supply The Original Agreement

[breadline]

Well done Bready... excellent news!

 

I've just received some further interesting information regarding the CCA 1974 and 2006 from the DTI. See here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-480912.html

 

Pete

 

Well done Pete I had re-read the thread again today and this was still a shaded area so after reading so many posts, is good to have some type of topdog confirmation:)

[un1boy]

Ah but breadline, it is my contention that they should.

 

For a start you are credit checked in order to get one, second it basically is a credit agreement and third Example 6 of the CCA states:

 

EXAMPLE 6

Facts. The G Bank grants H (an individual) an unlimited overdraft, with an increased rate of interest on so much of any debit balance as exceeds £2,000.

Analysis. Although the overdraft purports to be unlimited, the stipulation for increased interest above £2,000 brings the agreement within section 10(3)(b)(ii) and it is a consumer credit agreement.

[un1boy]

I would assume that if they cannot provide the original agreement with your signature on it they would find it difficult to prove it exists?

[joneshousehold]

Actually I have read some document that was published by the OFT giving an explanation of parts of the CCA. It said that an exemption can be granted (by whom? The DTI/OFT perhaps?) and a list is published of exemptions. However it also went on to say a general exemption from the S77-79 part of the Act was granted to the Bank of England and all other banks. This seems to be the reason why they claim to be exempt from that part of the Act. That exemption does not extend to the requirement to issue default notices and the like, hence the reason why they do issue them.

 

Sorry I am a bit vague. Tamadus gave me a link to see this document and I think it was a reply to a posting I made in the Consumer Credit Agreement thread

Found it, this is the link. There's a lot to wade through but I am sure I saw it here

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C...D/0/oft018.pdf

[Number6]

Hi No.6

 

That certainly is interesting, is it poss to to PM me a HQ copy of that letter plz.

 

RGDS

FB

 

I can certainly send you a copy but not by PM. If you PM me your email address I'll send it there.

 

Pete

[breadline]

Ah but breadline, it is my contention that they should.

 

For a start you are credit checked in order to get one, second it basically is a credit agreement and third Example 6 of the CCA states:

 

EXAMPLE 6

 

 

Facts. The G Bank grants H (an individual) an unlimited overdraft, with an increased rate of interest on so much of any debit balance as exceeds £2,000.

 

Analysis. Although the overdraft purports to be unlimited, the stipulation for increased interest above £2,000 brings the agreement within section 10(3)(b)(ii) and it is a consumer credit agreement.

 

Thanks JH can't get the link to work..

 

Thanks uniboy i was so sure of this too...

 

I think it is Best i just type my whole situation here for one final request of help.

March 2005 failure to provide contract for current account under Data Protection Act

 

11 of my written requests later..

 

November 2005 I recieved a letter stating The account contract no longer exists as its to long ago est:1992/4 that i also cannot confirm.. ( so i could use this letter to say a contract has existed )

 

 

I sent a CCA against the Current Account and they confirm reciept in writting.. but keep returning the payment advising, you must be requesting your credit report.. apply to equifax, and they also assume it is the Overdraft and its conditions and they send me which was raised in April 2004 and stands at £1800

 

So as I am now at the end of a long battle of abuse with them and about to throw the whole 18 months of thier breaking of the banking code, irresposible lending, broken direct debit gaurentees, basicaly unbelivable acts on my account.

Letter advises of Complaints to Information Commissioners Office/FSO/TS and Local MP with a court cliam for CCA failure to produce on a loan.( not current account in question)

 

My plan was to also File another CCA failure regarding the current account contract.

The wieght it would hold regarding my Final Kick of the bank butt.

is one of the heaviest, so I was not pleased to of lost it.

 

All of these details in a long letter offerd at the end is a short settlement which rounds up 3 accounts, with a short settlement for lloyds to close and leave my life

 

I would be most greatfull for solid advice as i have had conflicting advice so far and i have to get this letter written and returned Monday.

 

Q. Is an actual contract written for a current account. As i have been advised ( the conflicting advice) there is no contract on a Bank account yet ( the bank) admit not to hold a contract any longer)

 

Q. If one is entered Should they still hold my contract passed 6 years

 

Q. Is it possible to make a claim in court for failure to produce a contract on a Current account of 1992/94. Under my request CCA section 77/78. (will i find adequate ruling to even comlete an N1)

 

 

Thank you for answers this is the last Question from me as the letter has to go. thanks for the thread and the support.

 

BL:) x

[Guest Battleaxe]

I am not going to hijack this thread. I have a question or two regarding current accounts and overdrafts.

 

We have an overdraft on our current account with A & L, but I cannot remember signing a credit agreement for the overdraft orginally. In fact we have never signed a credit agreement when it got increased.

 

So do I send off a request for the credit agreement on the overdraft, they charge £5.00 a month overdraft fee, whether it is used or not and when it is used they charge us interest on it. At present the OD stands at £1100.00 plus interest. I am making a second claim on this account because of the charges they keep adding to the account it will be part of my 1998-2000 claim under the s32.

 

What I want to know is, if there is no credit agreement, is the OD lawful?

 

I am getting really confused now. Stop laughing, because the more I read the more I am questioning?

[rosierose]

As far as I'm aware BA the £5 fee is OK as the OD is a service being provided.

 

Here's the bit Jones might have been referring to earlier From OFT018:

There are two further, highly specialised, types of exemption which may be granted by the Office of Fair Trading from, among other things, the rules on form and content of agreements. A general exemption has been granted for the Bank of England, other banks and licensed deposit-taking institutions in respect of their arrangements for providing overdraft facilities on current accounts.

[un1boy]

Hi Breadline, please see my comments below....please note, these are my personal opinions only.....

 

 

Thanks uniboy i was so sure of this too...

 

Hehe, no problem!

 

Q. Is an actual contract written for a current account. As i have been advised ( the conflicting advice) there is no contract on a Bank account yet ( the bank) admit not to hold a contract any longer)

 

Well, every account I have ever applied for has had an application form; otherwise, how else can they get away with saying "Charges are agreed to in the terms and conditions?"

 

It is my contention that if they cannot provide evidence of your agreement to terms then how can they keep processing your data?

 

You may not have been told exactly how they will process your data if not, and if there is no agreement then you are not responsible for the conduct of the account, are you?

 

Lookingforinfo has been helping me on another thread and says companies have to keep you informed of their terms - otherwise how do you know each party are conforming to them?

 

This is what the Information Commissioners Office guidelines to the Data Protection Act say -

 

The interpretation of the Second Principle further provides that in deciding whether any disclosure of personal data is compatible with the purpose or purposes for which the data were obtained, consideration will be given to the purpose or purposes for which the personal data are intended to be processed by any person to whom they are disclosed. Such decisions cannot be made retrospectively by data controllers once the data are obtained..

 

The above quote is from Lookingforinfo.

 

So, to cut a long story short, if they reckon that processing your details are allowed in the terms you agreed to - where's the proof you agreed to any?

 

The ICO also say this:

 

Meeting a Schedule 2 and Schedule 3 condition will not, on its own, guarantee that processing is fair and lawful. The general requirement that data be processed fairly and lawfully must be satisfied in addition to meeting the conditions.

 

Q. If one is entered Should they still hold my contract passed 6 years

 

If I was running the business, I would keep them, as for any statutes obligating them to, I don't know - maybe someone more learned than me would be able to tell you. It makes ssense for them to though, doesn't it? Surely if it is as important as it is then yes, and surely it should really be supplied as part of a sar?

 

Q. Is it possible to make a claim in court for failure to produce a contract on a Current account of 1992/94. Under my request CCA section 77/78. (will i find adequate ruling to even comlete an N1)

 

I don't know if you can file an N1 for failure to produce a contract, but I am sure you can issue one for the unlawful and unfair processing due to not being able to prove you consented to any terms.

 

I am currently doing this with T-Mobile, check out my thread if you think it will help: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed-broadband/41808-t-mobile-dont-need-6.html

 

[breadline]

I don't know if you can file an N1 for failure to produce a contract, but I am sure you can issue one for the unlawful and unfair processing due to not being able to prove you consented to any terms.

 

I am currently doing this with T-Mobile, check out my thread if you think it will help: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed-broadband/41808-t-mobile-dont-need-6.html

 

Uniboy thank you so much for this reply, yes the N1.. well i havent even looked into the steps to go to court, as im stuck on this one situstaion, im hoping once this is launched at them I wont need to follow it up. I have to read info one step at a time, as i loose it quickly

 

Thank you all sorry for the slight hi jack hopefully some of the post questions and answers being relevant will help others, reading.

 

BL:)

[un1boy]

Hi Breadline, it's no problem - that's what we're here for. Please feel free to follow my thread, and/or PM as and when.....this particular situ is a learning experience for me, so I am by no means an expert. I can only comment on my experiences.

 

Anything I can do to help though, let me know and I will!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Rosie, I understand about the £5.00 monthly fee, but it is the OD facility. If a credit check was done before granting it, and we didn't sign anything regarding this, does it mean they didn't need our authorisation for this, if they are using OFT018? Maybe a letter to them asking them to quantify their decision in granting us an OD facilty. I remember ringing up and asking for it and it was granted immediately, with no futher terms and conditions sent out. Actually Io can't even find a copy of any documentation from we opened that account. it was done over the phone and letters to the Chairman's office. They gave us a cheque book but no cheque guarantee card and it was never explained how the system worked over here. I only found out about the card when I wrote the cheque for my groceries and they asked for the card? We didn't even have a debit card at that stage.

[un1boy]

As far as I am aware, if you find that you have searches on your credit file which you didn't authorise, you can contact the company in question and ask them to substanciate the reasons for the entry!! I fyou didn't tick that box and sign then as far as I understand it, they have to remove the search print!

[Guest Battleaxe]

I know I gave permission for LTSB to check when I opened my parachute account, this is how I found out the credit report was so bad, when I was offered the cashcard account, I took it as a means to an end and use that a account as a little savings account and nothing else.

 

Looks like I have to get the agreement when the account was orignally opened in 1998.

 

UnIboy you are a goldmine of information.

[un1boy]

Thanks Battleaxe! It is only my personal interpretaitons though.

 

See what provide after sending the agreement (or not).

 

I have a major bank considering a refund for me of my OD payments since they defaulted the account as they can't provide the agreement for that or my credit card - can't say too much at the mo because it's still all going through, but will let you know when it all finishes!!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Looks like another £1.00 postal order and another recorded delivery letter on its way to A & L. I seem to be keeping our local post office in business.

[breadline]

Looks like another £1.00 postal order and another recorded delivery letter on its way to A & L. I seem to be keeping our local post office in business.

 

i have enough to wall paper a small room, and the women up the post office thought i was potty until i explained what i was doing then they were even More interested.

[un1boy]

lol, I was thinking that the other day - the post office should be thankful to the CAG, I bet we are all keeping it afloat, hehe!

[JULI99]

Could those that are a bit more legally minded than me give their thoughts on this course of action.

 

I sent off my cca request back in early September 06. I heard nothing from either CSL or Barclaycard within the 12 working days, and nothing from them within the following 30 days. I then received from both CSL and Barclaycard an unreadable copy of my application form which they stated was my credit agreement.

As they have "committed a criminal act" because they did not send me the documentation within the required time frame and because as a criminal they are not allowed to profit from me, and so are unable to charge interest, can I make an offer to pay the balance outstanding less any interest they have charged in the past.

 

Would they be forced to settle for this and if so which laws/acts would I quote? Otherwise any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

 

Bare in mind I asked for my statements. Like everyone else I only recieved some of them.

 

I asked for my Credit Agreement and the date I opened the Account. I recieved an unreadable application form.

 

I do feel with Barclaycard I am beating my head against a brick wall.

 

Many thanks

 

juli99

 

PS The man at my post office was so interested he has joined too.

[spotnot]

Surely the application form is not sufficient, as an application can be turned down? I thought it had to be an agreement not the application.

[un1boy]

Could those that are a bit more legally minded than me give their thoughts on this course of action.

 

I sent off my cca request back in early September 06. I heard nothing from either CSL or Barclaycard within the 12 working days, and nothing from them within the following 30 days. I then received from both CSL and Barclaycard an unreadable copy of my application form which they stated was my credit agreement.

As they have "committed a criminal act" because they did not send me the documentation within the required time frame and because as a criminal they are not allowed to profit from me, and so are unable to charge interest, can I make an offer to pay the balance outstanding less any interest they have charged in the past.

 

Would they be forced to settle for this and if so which laws/acts would I quote? Otherwise any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

 

Bare in mind I asked for my statements. Like everyone else I only recieved some of them.

 

I asked for my Credit Agreement and the date I opened the Account. I recieved an unreadable application form.

 

I do feel with Barclaycard I am beating my head against a brick wall.

 

Many thanks

 

juli99

 

PS The man at my post office was so interested he has joined too.

 

Hi Juli

 

As they have now commited a criminal offence you do not have to pay them, regardless of whether they can now produce an agreement or not.

 

The CCA requires that the information is legible on all accounts, so what they have supplied you is still unenforcable.

 

The course of action is now up to you:

 

1.Write to them advising that they have commited an offence and they will have to take you to court to enforce the agreement and offer them something as a settlement on the understanding that all info will be removed from your CRA files and the accounts closed and balances reduced to zero.

 

2. Write to them as above and ask them to return all monies you have paid against it.

 

There is a moral argument here, which is not for me to get involved in. If you genuinely owe the money, you might be happy offering a settlement. depending on how they have treated you etc then you might want to go after the moneuy - that is up to you entirely.

 

If you do offer a settlement then make them aware that you DO NOT acknowledge the debt at all and that you are, in effect, being extremely generous as you don't actually have to pay anything.

 

Just make sure that you never acknowledge the debt.

 

Have you written to them since?

[un1boy]

Surely the application form is not sufficient, as an application can be turned down? I thought it had to be an agreement not the application.

 

This is an on going debate - some say yes, some say no. Personally I can see the points of both sides but logically I would say that an agreement shouldn't (not necessarily can't) be used as an agreement.

[Number6]

Surely the application form is not sufficient, as an application can be turned down? I thought it had to be an agreement not the application.

 

See my post HERE

 

Pete

[cyprusp]

Hi,

I have a card debt currently with wescot. The card was an RBS gold card which was opened in I think 1994. It has been with wescot for about 18 months. I am paying back at £150 per month. (debt now stands at £5589.67) Is the following course of action ok, request from RBS 6 years transactions charges with an SAR, and request from wescot true signed copy of agreement under cca.

 

Is this likely to result in them attempting to take out a ccj against me? Can they do so without the agreement?

 

Also wescot is not shown on the data protection act website as being registered as a data processor, are they linked to RBS and if not how can they have information relating to me without my permission?

 

Am I admitting the debt is valid if I request to see charges?

 

If in the 12 days plus 1 month no true signed copy is produced do I then have a case for stopping repayment? Can I still pursue refund of charges and/or monies paid to wescot?

 

I am extremely doubtful wescot can provide a copy of the agreement.

 

lots of questions I know but any advice/help appreciated.

 

thank you.

[joneshousehold]

Sorry about the link. Try this

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/CC4C7B5C-2152-4EC7-B850-C3B6E646869D/0/oft018.pdf