Benefits, Council Tax/Housing Benefit, Prison. HELP ME PLEASE

[booboocraig]

I really need advise here. In 2002 I was on benefits Income Support and claiming Council Tax/Housing Benefit. The benefits didn't cover all the rent and my Landlord offered me a way off paying the outstanding off....working in an office and taking home £20 per week out of a £70 cos he kept that as repayment. An employee left and got fraud benefit onto me, all benefits were stopped yet I had young twins and myself to feed on £20. This then went to court. My solicitor didn't explain that I was only receiving the £20 to which legally I was still entitled to the benefits, so I was placed on tag a 16 week curfew and payed costs of £35 nothing more.

I didn't hear anything else until whilst working for this particular Council this year I got a message to see an officer no more said, when I went to see him he was intimidating and told me that he needed payment I told him my wage he said he didn't care and that my partner can pay my debts......Legally as this happened pre boyfriend he is not liable for my debts.

The Council Officer told me that he needed £100 pcm, he then said if you move or change jobs I will find you its not a threat its a promise and was aggressive in his manor to the point I rang my partner in tears.

Months later I left as I sustained an injury at work and am unable to work until my arms and nerves are mended.

I have now received a letter re a Comittal To prison. I attended Magistrates Court and have another date for next week, I do not claim benefits and personally don't have monies coming in and I don't have any savings, my partner provides me with my everyday needs. My partner isn't liable for my debts.

I don't know how I stand now because:

1) You can earn £20 per week and still get full benefit

 

Why wasn't this looked into? Because I was still entitled to all they are asking back?

 

2) I have no monies coming in so how do they expect me to make payment?

 

3) The Council Officer said an agreement was made, but it wasn't! He made a demand and no paperwork was signed?

 

4) How do I stand with regards to Intimidation, especially as it was at work?

 

5) Legally how do I stand ?

 

I am so distressed through this as I have many things going on like my Father recently had a stroke, my mother becoming Disabled and my Daughter who self harms and is high risk of suicide. This is making me so depressed that I have even mentioned the easy way out to my partner because I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Please if anyone can give me guidance I really would appreciate it.

[sar011279]

Booboocraig, I'm so sorry to hear of all the problems that you're having at the moment. I'm afraid that I can't help on any of the specifics of your post but if it were me I'd be straight down to the local solicitors asking for legal aid, it really does sound complicated and I would be wary of advise given (no offence to anyone on this forum) unless it is from a proffesional.

 

There is always light at the end of every tunnel, it's just sometimes it seems further away than other times but sooner or later it will get sorted out one way or another.

 

My only advise from experience would be to use the support of your partner and friends and family. That's what they're there for isn't it? You can't deal with everything by yourself, something somewhere has to give, better it be your pride than something worse. Talk to people around you and make sure you get the necessary support and don't go it alone.

 

Booboocraig I wish you all the best, onwards and upwards and all, first stop solicitors.

[petcat]

hi I truly feel for you. Please also see the citizens advice bureau- they are very sympathetic, have a lot of 'weight' and also im pretty sure they have a free solicitor which you can make an appointment to see.Best wishes for a brighter future.

[booboocraig]

Thankyou so much for your comforting words....I am awaiting a call from a solicitor I have dealt with in the past.....I think the main thing is just getting the court to understand that I was still legally allowed to the benefits....thinking you wouldn't get far on £80pcm and child benefit....especially when rent was £900pcm then council tax and daily living......I find the law so frustrating because they pen 12 cases into each court room so they only have time for Guilty or Not Guilty and not listening to what really has happened. I would like to point out that statements were taken by fraud officers from all concerned and my Employer told them I only received £20 per week....just shows you no one looks.

 

But I really appreciate your help, my partner is brilliant I just can't tell anyone else in my family because of health and chance of fatality.....

[shaniannie]

I totally sympathise with you, the benefits system is so hard to understand.

 

From the knowledge I have of it (which is personal, no professional knowledge) they are looking at the whole of the £90 per week you were paid, no matter what it was used for. In their eyes, you were paid £90 per week and chose to use £70 towards rent (which they will argue you needed to as you lived in a house too expensive, as housing benefit rates should cover the whole cost of what is "needed").

 

That being said, forgive me if I'm mis-reading or not understanding something... You've already been on tag years ago for this "crime", and it had all gone through court and you paid whatever you were told to at court, right? I'm no legal expert, but how on earth, after a court has ruled, can they now decide that you still owe them money? I thought a court decision is final, and the end of it?

 

I know my post isn't of much help, I just wanted to offer my support and sympathy, and little knowledge of the benefit system. I think you need to see a solicitor ASAP and go through everything with a fine tooth comb to understand the ins and outs of it all. HUGS.

[booboocraig]

I was on Income support but my Landlord gave me a way of paying the rent which wasn't covered by the benefit. I only was given £20 per week from my boss out of £70 so £50 never came to me as it was what rent was outstanding...all complicated I must add. So in my eyes I only earn't £20 which was legal because other monies never came to me.

The original court case I was put on tag and ordered to pay £35 costs and nothing more...yet now 2yrs on I have all on my back.

I have always been honest and find this so frustrating because in the back of my child benefit book it said I was able to earn £20 without it having an effect on my benefits, and as I didn't receive more than £20 in my hand I saw no wrong......

[shaniannie]

Sorry, I got confused and thought you meant £70 + £20 cash in hand. So it's £50 rent and £20 cash in hand? OK.

 

In which case, the way the benefits system sees it, it would still be the same. It's hard to explain fully, so I'll use an example - If you work and either pay childcare or say a personal pension straight through your employer, you technically don't have that money as it was never paid to you in cash - it's a "paper transaction". You still have to have the money deducted from your payslip included in your p60 as it is still earnings.

 

The same goes for your "arrangement" while you were on benefits. Technically you didn't have the cash in your hand, but it was still a "paper transaction", and that is how the courts and the benefits system view it.

 

Just like if I went to work now and my employer said, "I won't pay you in cash, I'll pay your mortgage instead." Do you get where I'm coming from? No matter what the "wage" was used for, it's still your income.

 

I'm only saying this to try and help you understand why you were/are in trouble for doing this. I don't have any legal knowledge so don't know if there are any legislations/acts/whatever that could help you, there may be, there may not.

 

But from what you say, I am completely baffled as to why you're in trouble again for the same crime. You had your tag for 16 weeks when you were convicted, and did as the courts said. How can they have you up in court for the same crime when you've already been convicted??? Is it the same people prosecuting this time? Really, only a solicitor can help you properly...

 

And as I said, I do totally sympathise with the benefit thing - until a few years ago I was a single mum on benefits and know how hard it is to get by. The system is so complicated and it needn't be so.

[booboocraig]

They are trying to change the wording at the moment.....The case where I was curfewed was under "Giving A False Statement" with regards to claiming benefit and work.....now they are going for "Non Payment Of Council Tax and Housing Benefit" as to claim it all back!

So there's me getting my £20 per week cos benefits have been stopped/suspended and my Family allowance yet with rent at £900pcm and council tax and daily living.........It's plainly obvious that I cannot manage to pay this on what I was getting so I would of been entitled to Benefits.....

I would like to add I am not claiming benefits now and never will again I am off work injured and my partner sees to my daily needs

[shaniannie]

Ah, ok. I understand what you're saying, it's plain common sense, but the benefits system doesn't work on it I'm afraid, they stick to tight rules as to who qualifies.

 

It seems that it is not the wording that has changed. The original prosecution was for wrongly claiming income support. This prosecution is for wrongly claiming housing benefit and council tax. They are two totally seperate benefits that just go hand in hand with each other, which explains why you are being prosecuted again.

 

In their eyes, regardless of whether you were actually receiving the cash in hand or not, you were being paid £70 a week for working. Because you failed to declare this I'm sure that means that your claim for income support and SEPERATE claim for housing benefit and council tax benefit become void. Which means you have to pay back the WHOLE amount of council tax and housing benefit for the period you were claiming while effectively earning £70 per week.

 

I know this may not make sense, but it's just the way the system works. From what I know, they cannot go back and re-calculate on you earning £70 per week (regardless that you only saw £20 of it).

 

To deal with a problem, you need to understand why that problem arose. I'm trying to help you figure out WHY you were in the wrong in the first place.

 

I know I think you didn't know you were doing wrong - but unfortunately not knowing you were doing wrong doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted for it.

 

Hindsight is a powerful thing. This was before Tax Credits came into force, wasn't it? What you should have done at the time is declare the £70 and claimed whatever was in place of Tax Credits (I think it was known as "Working Families Tax Credits" then). Because you didn't go this route - knowingly or not - ALL the claims you made at the time for any type of benefit are void and repayable, which is why you've been summonsed again. To answer what you said:

 

It's plainly obvious that I cannot manage to pay this on what I was getting so I would of been entitled to Benefits

 

You WOULD HAVE been entitled to the benefits had you claimed for the right ones and declared your income. Because you didn't declare this you were not entitled. It is obvious to most people that you couldn't live on £20 per week, but in the eyes of the benefit system you defrauded them so it wasn't/isn't their problem.

 

I really wish I knew more of the law regarding all this but alas I don't. I can only try and help you understand why you are in the position you are, so you can get proper help to solve this. I think you need to get a solicitor who knows how the benefits system works. I only know what I know from having lived on benefits for a while myself and have read a LOT, and I like understanding how things work. If a solicitor has never dealt with benefit problems before then I doubt they'd be any more help than I would, to be honest.

[booboocraig]

thanks for helping me much appreciated.......I will let you know how it goes on Wednesday......

[booboocraig]

Just an update to those ppl who gave me advice....

I changed solicitor to which the court wasn't happy with as they said maybe she will do this again! ...I changed solicitor because my origional one decided to let me know he didn't normally deal with this type of case yet the Judge slated me.

My new solicitor found many double charges within the monies he said I owed...so at the moment I am on bail and have til September to get my case together. My solicitor has it wrapped up and has told me not to worry he also is looking into the fact that I would of been entitled to benefits.

I am keeping my fingers crossed but I truly wanted to thankyou all for your advice

[shaniannie]

I'm glad you found a solicitor that'll be able to help you Let us know how you get on I have my fingers crossed for you!