DCA approach after 5 years.....

[Jason Toulmin]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post so please forgive me if I ask any stupid questions!!!

 

I received a letter the other day, 2nd class stamp and non recorded. Inside was two letters, one was from a Mortage company that I handed the keys of my house back to over 5 years ago. I simply walked away, which I know isnt the responsible thing to do but as I am sure other people on this forum will understand things werent exactly rosy at the time.

Anyway, the mortgage company letter basically said that they had handed my debt over to the company that the other letter was from. The other letter stated that they represented a company that had taken the debt on, which I now owe to them, and that I should phone them on the number provided and discuss an amicable way in which to make payment. It also mentions that I will owe "all interest and other sums due thereon" to said company.

When I left 5 yrs ago I sort of vanished, opened another account, didnt leave forwarding address, and so on.

I now live with someone, am on the mortgage and deeds and have a joint account with them.

Ok, so, not sure what to do. I am tempted to remove myself from the mortgage and joint account (although I didnt think that the dca company could track this info due to data protection, am I wrong?) and also remove myself from even being registered at all at this address. Basically, not officially live there at all. They do not have my phone number (I think!!) and do not know where I work so I am thinking they have limited knowledge of my situation apart from my address which they have somehow managed to acquire. I have also checked creditexpert and nothing is showing on there that is negative!

Could someone please let me know what is the best way forward, any advice would be very gratefully received as I do not want to repeat the turmoil I went through five years ago.

Oh, and if I did "officially" not live where I live is there any chance they may send someone "snooping"?

[renegotiation]

DCA's use the electoral roll. That is a cast iron certainty. That's probably how they found you if you are on it. They may well have mass mailed all Jason Toumlins. I don't know for sure.

[jay123]

Surely the house was repossed and sold on so how can you still owe them money?

[rory32]

Jason,

I think you need to give us a bit more information in order to help. What was the %age mortgage taken out e.g. 90%. 100%, 125%? What was the type of mortgage e.g. interest only? Was there equity in the property? Was the mortgage in your name only? What were the circumstances leading up to you walking away?

 

When you are registered on a bank account or a mortgage it is automatically entered on your credit file. They will have been able to find you by searching your credit file.

[Jason Toulmin]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for your responses.

At the time house prices werent so hot, however, I had an endowment mortgage that was not performing to say the very least. I was having some real bad issues with other lenders at the time but had no defaults etc as had come to certain agreements with all except the mortgage company, that payment remained the same so as far as they knew there werent any issues.

Basically, I decided to remortgage with a standard repayment type motgage, I certainly had no intention of leaving at the time otherwise I would not have done so. When I remortgaged I am not totally sure with regards to equity etc how I stood. Looking back I cant remember the lender looking into this but they must have to some degree otherwise they would not have gone ahead with the remortgage. The mortgage cannot have been 100% as they wouldnt have done that at the time as far as Im aware and I am sure that is something I would have remembered so I am presuming 95%. Basically, my marriage fell apart along with I hate to admit my sanity to some degree, it just got too much for me. I left maybe a month or two later.

 

In response to jay123, I totally thought that would be it, the monies the dca says is now outstanding (WITHOUT THEIR INTEREST ETC!!) amounts to 75% of the total mortgage which to be honest flabbergasts me, I cannot see how this can be possible when they got the house.

 

With regards to the dca searching my credit file, I read my file and it clearly states that nobody should do a search without my consent and my file shows no such search, at this point in time anyway!!

 

Repeating what I already said, what if I came off the electoral register?? I am actually tempted to move out for a time, get a flat till this dies down.

I thought that due to data protection etc that dca companies could not look at your address through any means other than electoral role so they should have no means of actually saying I definately live where I live now if I come off the register and if it is denied. I have not acknowledged receipt of any letter and I have not admitted liability for the debt.

Thank you again for your help.

[Jason Toulmin]

Sorry, just to add, the mortgage was in my name only.

[jay123]

From what you have said I cannot possible see how you can owe them that much.

 

There is a website you can join called Our Property gives free house prices from Land Registry data - OurProperty.co.uk

it gives the amount that any property in the UK was sold for since 2000.

 

I would suggest you first find out what they sold your property for and then try and work out how much your outstanding mortgage was.

 

You will then be able to work out how much (if any) you owe them.

 

Sounds to me like they are trying it on.

[Jason Toulmin]

That is extremely helpful, thank you.

It appears that they sold the house for a very low amount, however, they are claiming somewhere in the region of £7000 over the outstanding amount as of the sale date which is over 4 and a hlaf years ago.

Is £7000 increase on £13000 outstanding over 5 years since handing the keys back normal? Outstanding is now near £20,000.

Thanks.

[Jason Toulmin]

Also, I am correct in the assumption that the dca is likely, on average, to have paid 10% of this debt, so around £2,000 and yet are trying to say the outstanding to them is near £20,000, plus costs plus interest? Is it my imagination or are these companies total parasites?! How do courts view this level of greed?

[renegotiation]

They wouldn't care if you were on your death bed mate. I kept telling them my dad was 73 (which they knew anyway!) and had been having chest pains and to stop phoning up. They didn't take a blind bit of notice. I'm dealing with everything now and he doesn't answer the phone unless he knows the number. If he died how could they be innocent?

[jay123]

I would not admit the debt and try and hold out to 6 years and the use the limitations act 1980. When will it be 6 years since you admitted the debt?

[ledgejigsaw]

Hi

 

I'm new to the forum but i thought that you may find some of the following helpful.

 

With regards to tracing a customer that owes funds on a mortgage bank's & building societies have access to nearly every piece of public information held about you including credit reports, unlisted numbers, past and present addresses and voters roll as previously stated.

 

If you don't want to be traced you would literally have to disappear (sp) and not be registered anywhere, but this is also includes your current account as banks can call your bank if you had a direct debit setup with them to see if they hold any contact information for you (where multiple banks are part of the same group)

 

With regards to outstanding debt after you surrendered the keys;

 

They should of sold the property after getting 3 independant valuations for the property and then marketing it for sale as any other house sale.

 

If after the property was sold there was a shortfall, i.e; they didn't get back enough to cover the oustanding balance they can chase you for the shortfall for up to 6 years to recover any outstanding debt.

 

With regards to the actual amount calculated, it would usually be calculated at the interest rate of the mortgage, also taking into account any interest rate changes from the time it was sold up until the point that the debt is cleared

 

The problem you may now encounter if they have managed to trace you and you now have a new mortgage, is that you now have security and a way of paying them back.

 

The only other thing worth mentioning is that there costs will have been added to the outstanding debt with regards to tracing you and because the LTV (loan to value) was quite high you could of ended up in what is called negative equity

[rory32]

they can chase you for the shortfall for up to 6 years to recover any outstanding debt.

As this is a mortgage they can chase you for up to 12 years I'm afraid.

[Jason Toulmin]

Thanks again to everyone that has posted with advice/information.

It does seem that I am up against the wall here, even though I have not yet admitted to the debt I am feeling a little lost with what to do now to be honest. The only thing I can think of is maybe trying to borrow on the equity of my current property and paying some sort of settlement figure, hopefully. Just not sure how low this company will settle or how long I can drag this out for in order for me to try and raise funds, if I can at all.

[rory32]

Personally the first thing I would do would be ask for a breakdown of the debt to see if there are any penalty charges on the debt. You can do this by sending a SAR. Once you have an idea of the true value of the debt (rather than just automatically accepting what they say) you can start to come up with a plan on repaying it.

 

Due to the circumstances they may even be willing to accept a reduced offer. In my experience it is always worth trying to negotiate. Plus you also want to find out if the property was sold for a reasonable market price.

 

Remeber if they take you to court the judge will not award them a payment plan that is more than you can reasonably afford.

[Jason Toulmin]

Is it worth waiting for them to send me more correspondance? What I mean is, they did only send it via 2nd class post, it is very possible I have never received it and nothing is actually recorded yet.

Once they send me something by recorded delivery then I could send them an SAR, maybe just to buy a little time. Just out of curiosity, how long would it normally take for a dca to get back to me with the requested information? Is it possible to get an exact figure of what they paid for the debt and would that help me in any way?

Thanks again.

[Jason Toulmin]

Just thought of something else, sorry to be a pain!! Is there any point in sending a CCA prior to an SAR? Mainly for buying time. Also, if they dont supply me with all of the correct information with regards to these requests from me then where do I stand? I realise how broad these questions are!! Thanks again.

[rory32]

Is there any point in sending a CCA prior to an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)?

Fraid not, mortgages are generally not covered by a CCA. This one certainly wouldn't.

[Jason Toulmin]

I may sound a little naive here but is this still classed as a mortgage? I mean, it started as a mortgage but it has now been bought by a DCA and there is no mention of the debt being a mortgage anywhere on the letters, the letter from the DCA states:

 

 

Assignment of Debt from ***mortgage company*** to ***dca***

***mortgage company ref no. XXXXXX-XXXXXX, XX ref No. XXXXXX

Debt Balance :£xx,xxx.xx at XX XXXXX 2006

 

On behalf of ***dca*** we hereby give you notice that by Deed of Assignment dated ***2007 ("the assignment") made between mortgage company ("the assignor") and ***dca*** ("the assignee") the Assignor assigned to the Assignee absolutely all amounts due from you to it in the sum shown above together with all the rights vested in the Assignor under the documents giving rise to the Debt Balance noted above. We now require you to pay the Debt Balance together with all interest and other sums due thereon to ***company collecting for the dca*** on behalf of ***dca***.

 

We invite you to discuss tis matter etc etc.

 

They dont even mention the word mortgage on the enclosed letter from the company the mortgage was taken out with, it simply states it as an account that has been sold by way of absolute assignment.

 

Thanks again.

[PriorityOne]

The fact that it has been sold by a mortgage company indicates that it's a mortgage debt.

 

At the moment, they may be fishing without any real proof that you are living where you are now. Having said that.... they also use DVLA records to find people.... so they may have found enough to be fairly confident that you are who they think you are.

 

I have actually been through this scenario myself some years ago.... only mine was still with the original mortgage company. I cannot say how this DCA will behave in the future with you.... but whatever you do, DO NOT admit to having another mortgage or being on house deeds ! If it comes to the crunch and you have to give an income/expenditure breakdown to keep them off your back... list these outgoings as "housing costs" and leave out details re. buildings insurance, etc.

 

Low settlement offers are often accepted. I bluffed my way through my own nightmare at the time and settled for an absolute pittance.... but it took 4/5 years of making token payments before they would settle.

 

There are a few threads on here that may be useful to you.... depending on which way you want to go on this. I will try and find one for you....

[Imagination75]

Jason

 

I get a bit paranoid about people like "Fairmile" and the possibility that someone from them could be reading this.

 

There is no way that I will ever be in a job like the one I had in 1992 before my downwards slide, and I will be on part-time low paid jobs for some years to come.

 

I don't have to justify my current position, because Northern Rock cancelled the debt three years ago, and think this is a "try-on", probably legal if not moral.

 

I expect them to come back with an oversight apology which I will be expected to accept.

 

However, I am not going to give them ideas that my position has in any way improved since they made that offer.

 

All the best

[PriorityOne]

This is a long thread.... but you may find it useful.

 

Mortgage, CreditAgricole ,BirminghamMidshires, Halifa x, HBOS, CurtisSolicitors

 

[Jason Toulmin]

Thank you, that is very useful. I will certainly stay away from admitting being on another mortgage or deeds etc.

Your help would be gratefully received in finding any information that would help me. I have spoken to my partner and we have agreed if absolutely necassary we will try and raise funds but it woould REALLY stretch us to say the least and other means would be by far prefered.

You guys on here are bloody lifesavers, thank you!!!

[PriorityOne]

Jason,

 

I fully understand the panic that you are going through.... Some companies will bully you more than others and you will have to protect your interests all the way. If they are able to get hold of a 'phone number for you, do not get into any conversations with them at this stage. If it comes to you having to settle with them, make sure that you offer nowhere near the amount that they are asking for. Box clever.

 

Have a read of the thread I have given you.... and see how similar it is to what you are going through. My situation was very different and there was no way that I could risk going to court. As you are named on Deeds, it sounds as if you won't want to go there either. This is one of the reasons why I try and advise people outside of the courtroom, so to speak....

[Jason Toulmin]

Imagination75,

I fully understand how you feel, I must admit I feel a bit paranoid myself but dont know what else to do. Thanks for your support though, I am sure you will get your apology and I really hope things come together for you in the future.

PriorityOne, thanks again, that thread is long but has some excellent content, I am going to have to do some serious thinking on the whole situation.