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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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The Holte41 v A&L ***WON***


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I have read the information on your site and have sent a request (along with the £10 "fee") to the bank, requesting statements for the past 6 years. I believe that the amount of charges will run in to the thousands, (at one point last year being charged almost £400 a month, half of my monthly salary! - which only made matters worse).

I have written to the bank on many ocassions expressing the unfairness of the charges - I dont need to pay £34 for them to tell me they are not paying my £16.99 direct debit due to insufficient funds - I already know it and part of the reason there are insufficient funds is due to their charges!! From time to time they have made token gesture and refunded one charge. I know I am ranting now - everyone on this site knows the situation and has suffered the same.

 

I now have two queries:

1, Once I have received statements and identified all charges - which of these do I request refund for? Are the illegal charges only those which exceed the amount the single offence for which I am being charged?

2. Should these total more than the £5000 limit of the small claims court (or in my case Sherrif Court), could I lodge two separate claims?

Thank you for such an informative site and good luck to everyone attempting to retrieve charges from their respective banks. We all know these excessive charges suck!!

Regards

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The Holte41, can you please tell us which bank you're claiming from so we can move your post to the relevant forum, you are currently posting on someone else's thread, which is called hijacking and will complicates things enormously for both that [person and you as your claims progress. Then we'll answer you. Thank you.

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Hi there, The Holte, seems no-one has picked up on your thread yet.

 

I'm no expert, still only considering action myself - it's a big step and you need to feel 100% confident before you jump. However, from what I have been reading on the site, it seems ALL charges can be claimed back for the past 6 years.

 

It isn't a case that there are legal charges and illegal charges.

 

The case is that the amounts the banks have been charging is illegal, because they are punitive and not a true reflection of what it costs them to deal with our - shall we call them - "indiscretions"!

 

If I am incorrect in any of this, I'm sure someone else can steer you right.

 

Luck dude.

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I now have two queries:

1, Once I have received statements and identified all charges - which of these do I request refund for? Are the illegal charges only those which exceed the amount the single offence for which I am being charged?

2. Should these total more than the £5000 limit of the small claims court (or in my case Sherrif Court), could I lodge two separate claims?

Thank you for such an informative site and good luck to everyone attempting to retrieve charges from their respective banks. We all know these excessive charges suck!!

Regards

 

1 All of them

2 As you mention the Sherrif Court does this mean that you are in Scotland. If so the limits are different, but I think the advice is to split the claims. Take a look on the Scotland forum as I think you will find some answers there.

 

Good luck.:)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Many thanks Bookworm for sorting my posting difficulties - hope you got a good nights sleep!!

 

Just a quick update checked bank online today and my cheque to Alliance and Leicester in respect of fee for providing me with statements (as requested in DPA) has been cashed.

I wonder if they will be so efficient providing the information requested? Will be interesting to see.

So play the waiting game now - but I will keep you updated!

Regards

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  • 2 weeks later...

Please, please, please A&L hurry up with those statements!!! My 40 days are up this weekend and I am off visiting relatives for two weeks - off on Monday!! Want to get my letter requesting refund of charges in before I go and think it will take at least a couple of evenings work to complete all the data for the past 6 years!!!

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Attempted to check on my account balance today via telephone banking services only to discover that A & L have closed my account WITH no prior warning!!! Could this have something to do with the fact that I emailed them yesterday reminding them that the time required for provision of my statements was running out???

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That sounds a little excessive, have you contacted them?

Kingliam

:!:

 

On behalf of the Ginger one

Lloyds TSB - 1ST 12/07/06-LBA 26/07/06-MC-14/08/06-Court-31/01/2007

Halifax - D P A 02/10/06

On behalf of MumKing

Barclays Bank D P A 29/08/06

 

On behalf of DJ Sunny

Alliance & Leicester D P A 29/08/06

 

On behalf of GrandmaKing

GE Capital D P A 30/10/06

Barclays Bank D P A 30/10/06 - 1ST 15/11/06 *Microfiche [problem]

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Attempted to check on my account balance today via telephone banking services only to discover that A & L have closed my account WITH no prior warning!!! Could this have something to do with the fact that I emailed them yesterday reminding them that the time required for provision of my statements was running out???

Dude, if you haven't already done so, check out Lady Penelope's thread; they did a similar thing to her. She received her Data Protection Act c17th June - they closed her account by the 30th, so not even got to moneyclaim stage!

 

They have obviously decided to play it even dirtier than before.

 

Good job you already had a parachute open.

 

This is one important lesson for new claimants to learn - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A PARACHUTE ACCOUNT BEFORE YOU JUMP!

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I am not certain that the account closure was as a response to my email reminding them there was only a few days left before the time was up for the provision of statements.

However during the conversation I was advised that it had been closed because my overdraft limit had been exceeded by £23.59 - which would not be the case had they not charged me £25.00 for cashing the £10 cheque submitted as fee for provision of statements!!

I expressed my disappointment given that neither myself of Money Advisor CAB had been contacted by the bank. I was advised that they were not aware that I was using the services of a Money Advisor, or had indeed made a proposed repayment plan!

I also reminded the customer service advisor that I had submitted a request for statements at the beginning of June and to date no statements had been received. Wait for it. . . . We have no record of your request, did you send a letter? At this point I fell of my chair laughing (you have to keep your sense of humour when you are losing everything else)! I asked how on earth they could possibly deny they had not received my subject access request when they had cashed the £10 cheque, charged me £25 for doing so, this meant I had exceeded my overdraft limit AND now account closure!!!!! The response, well the cheque went one way and the request another, there is a backlog ot the moment. LOL I WONDER WHY????

Now with great delight I am about to put pen to paper, regarding this farce (for all the good that will do except make me feel better) AND have my letter reporting them to the information commisioner ready to post first thing Monday morning when my statements have failed to turn up at the weekend!!! Will be couteous enough to let them know I am doing just that too!!!!

Will keep you posted!!!! :wink:

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OK - just checking procedure and I appeared to be jumping the gun. Next step send letter before action advising them they have seven days to provide statements before I report them to the Inromation Commisioner and seek Court Order obliging them to do so?

 

Feel I need my hand held here now - am off to check Lady Penelope's thread, but any advice welcomed!

Thanks folks

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Letter ready to post first thing Monday morning - if anyone spots anything wrong PLEASE let me know!!!

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account: *****(I have entered account number here)!

You have failed to comply with my Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated 6th June 2006

 

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall have no alternative other than to report your failure to comply within the terms of Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998with the Information Commissioner and shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

 

Yours faithfully

Any comments appreicated!!!

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And letter ready to go to bank now:

Account Number (MINE)

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing with regard to the above detailed account and to express my utter disgust at the manner in which I have been treated.

When attempting to obtain an account balance by use of telephone banking today, in order that I may pay cash in to my account to bring it back within terms of my agreed overdraft, I was informed that I had failed security and was eventually connected and told that my account had been closed. I was told that my account had been closed because I am in excess of overdraft to the sum of £23.59

This was without prior warning. In addition, the advisor failed to recognise that I have been in correspondence with the bank on numerous occasions expressing my financial difficulties and advising that I was seeking assistance to rectify the matter from a Money Advisor CAB. The Money advisor wrote to you on May 5th 2006, offering a proposed repayment plan. Again all knowledge of this communication was denied.

During the same conversation I advised that I had requested statements for the past 6 years and had paid the appropriate fee of £10 on 6th June 2006. Your advisor told me that you had received no such request. However, I was able to provide evidence that they had received the request having cashed the accompanying cheque! In cashing that cheque the bank made a charge of £25.00 – NOTE my overdraft facility has been closed due to an excess of £23.59!!! The bank is obliged to comply with my subject access request within 40 days. 40 days will have passed this coming Sunday 9th July and I suspect that the bank will have failed to comply with this request and will be in breach of Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

To that end I shall be issuing a Letter Before Action and shall be referring the banks failure to comply to the Information Commissioner.

Yours faithfully

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I'm not sure about saying that you expect them to fail to meet the deadline. You cannot make that assumption. I would suggest you leave out all of the DP stuff in fact, as you do not need to warn you are sending an LBA, and then send that on Monday as a nice little follow up;-)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Friday and still no statements. Posted letter of complaint about account closure to bank, but now back to the business of claiming back charges.

I have checked the forums and the step by step action plan, so if statements are not received tomorrow - last chance before 40 days are up and very doubtful given that I was told yesterday that they havent received request, I next step is to send Letter Beofre Action - advising I shall be reporting them to Information Commisioner and begin a court action obliging them to provide me with information. They have 14 days in which to respond? That deals with their failure to supply information.

Am I too also send a preliminary letter requesting estimated charges be refunded in order to commence my calim?

Any advice appreciated

Regards all

Keep up the good work!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just an update. Back from travels to mailand visiting family, and the wonderful sight of a huge package containing all that vital information. Looks like I have a very busy few days ahead. . but here goes:)

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Whatever for? Luck has got nothing to do with it.;)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good luck Holte41!!!!!

 

I'm also sending my LBA on Friday 11th August. Bring it on!!!!!!!

 

Just read all of the court stuff and start preparing your defence in case they take it to the last straw!

 

Cheers

 

Jase

A&L Claim SETTLED IN FULL 16/09/06 :D

HSBC -Claim settled in full 26th Oct 06.

HSBC PPI - Premium settled in full 1st Jan 08

HSBC PPI Interest - 1st request for refund issued,due 17th June 08

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