Jo x versus HSBC

[jox74]

Hey guys,

 

Firstly, gutted I hadn't gotten wind of this site before I started my barny with HSBC - found loads of fantastic advice, and more importantly the interest calculator - doh - that's nearly 500 quid Ive missed out on!! I'll be passing along details of this site to my brother-in-law-to-be, to make sure he takes HSBC for the interest!!!

 

Basically, HSBC owe me £2995 in bank charges. I've written a number of times and got fobbed off with the eight week thing, as have lots of you from what I've read.

 

So - hacked off with being messed around I started an online claim, which was:

• Issued 14 May
  
• Acknowledged 17 May (so I assume deemed as served on that date too?!! Anyone know if that's right?)
  
• If defendant has 28 days from date of service to file a defence, does that then mean some time around 14 June???

(Oh, and if it wasn't for this site I would never have know to send my statement of charges on to the courts after doing my online claim - so thanks for making that so clear!! Phew!)

 

I've seen lots of advice on various threads about writing to push the HSBC solictor bods into making an offer - I assume it is too early to do that now so should I sit tight and wait to see what they come back with defence-wise?

 

I'd be uber grateful if some of you knowledgeable souls out there would direct some of that HSBC-busting power my way.....

 

And I can't wait until that money is stuck in my account and I can make a donation to this site for its sterling work.....(geddit?!.....sterling.....sterling....I'll get my coat).

 

 

Jo x

[jeneil]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/71369-getting-mcol-right.html

Hi hope that worked there is some info in the above link about MCOL timescales which hopefully should help and I would just sit back and wait

[jox74]

Jeneil,

 

You're a star!!! Thanks for posting so quickly, and for the really helpful direction to that thread.

 

From the info there, it looks as though they've got until 18 June to file their defence, so I'll stop getting my knickers in a twist for the mo!!

 

Jo x

 

:grin:

[jowalshy]

You should have received a notice of issue. this would then tell you when the date of deemed served is. Usually it is 5 days after the date you filed your claim. So if the date of issue is 14th May then the date of deemed served would be 19th May. DG then have 28 days from the 19th in which to put in their defence(16th June). As for nudging DG, I would wait until your claim has been transfered to your local court. You may in the meantime get an offer from DG, this will relate to your prelim letter or LBA.

[jox74]

Jowalshy,

 

You are spot on with the issue and deemed served dates...but I'd gone for 18 June (coz it's a Monday) rather than Sat 16th.

 

(I'd just gotten a little confused as the claim was acknowledged on 17 May...two days before it was deemed served, but I suspect that it doesn't really matter).

 

I'm grateful for the your help though, and should probably apologise in advance for some of the eejit questions I may fire out as this thing goes on!!

 

Jo x

[jowalshy]

Even if the deadline date is on a weekend, I still think that they will have to defend by then as it is 28 calender days and not working days. Just keep an eye out on the MCOL site.

[jox74]

I'd picked it up from the MCOL thread Jeneil sent me...

 

Just out of interest though, given what seems like the huge amounts of these claims going through the courts at the moment are these deadlines slipping?

 

Jo x

[jowalshy]

Sometimes they do. If that happens to you, I would contact MCOL for advice.

[jox74]

Will do. Cheers Jowalshy!

 

Jo x

[jox74]

Right,

 

Latest on my claim is that DG submitted a defence on 22 June, the claim has been transferred to to my local court, and the allocation questionnaire has been dispensed with.

 

I've had a look at a few other threads, and am I right in thinking that now is the time to start trying to nudge our friends in DG? Of course, I don't hold out much hope that they'll act on said nudge letter, but presumably it looks good that I've been trying to push them without taking up any more of the court's precious time (!)...

 

So, two questions. I've seen a few different nudge letters dotted about - is there a template about that someone might be able to direct me to?

 

Also I've been reading something about the additional stuff that can be claimed - s69 interest? Can someone direct me to some advice about this, so that I can decide whether I need to include a claim for that.

 

Actually, I lied, I've three questions - since my claim was submitted I've had another bank charge (first one in ages - really not v happy!). Can I add this to my claim, or shall I just let it go?

 

Grateful for any advice!!

 

Cheers

 

Jo x

[lateralus]

hi jo,

back to front - on the new charge - can't add it on - must wait and claim again but my advice would be hang on to it a little - if dg makes an offer and drops something off your claim (like one is a duplicate or one was refunded at some point - so they are taking off that amount) then you can come back with - well, i'd like to accept that offer if you would include this new charge from xx/xx/xx - then i would accept your offer - so keep it as a bargaining chip for now.

 

in my signature at the bottom of this post there are two threads with aq in the title - both have nudge help in post one - both are slightly different - but don't be afraid to tweak the letters to your situation.

 

now, the s.69 - i'm interested in where you got your particulars of claim and what they said. i'm thinking if you followed a template from somewhere - you may have already asked for the 8% interest (that is what the s.69 is about) so, have you kept a copy of your particulars or do you know where you got them from - maybe you could put them up here and we can check them - if you haven't asked for the s.69 - it may be that the court will sort of automatically give it - i'll check that out - if not - and you wanted to - you could file an amended poc for £35 (not reclaimable) and add the interest to your claim. it is a little involved but for that amount it would be well worth it.

 

so, get back with where you got your poc's and put them up here for us to look at if you can.

[jox74]

Lateralus,

 

Thanks for your post - I suspected that was the case with the latest charge.

 

As for the particulars of my claim, I got them from the BBC website (which I now deeply regret!) and they go:

 

The claimant has held a current account [my details] with the defendant, conducted on their standard Terms and Conditions since 1999. The defendant, from 2003 to the present day has applied charges to the claimant account, totalling not more than £2995. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915]Ac 79 along with Murray v Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. The defendants charges are also contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8 and Sch 2(1)(e). The claimant has asked the bank to refund their charges, or offer proof that they are a true pre-estimate. The bank has, so far, failed to do so. The claimant claims no more than £2995, being the sum unlawfully debited.

 

The £2995 is solely charges, so there isn't 8% added anywhere.

 

Also, another couple of points I'm a little nervous on...couldn't remember exactly when the account was opened, but now suspect it could have been as far back as 96 - will this have a bearing?!

 

I'll have a look at those nudge letters in the meantime...

 

Thanks again!

 

Jo x

[lateralus]

won't matter when the acct. was opened.

as for the interest - i've asked hagenuk and will let you know when i know for sure.

if you did mcol - did you tick the including interest box.

this is from michael browne's getting mcol right thread:

 

(5) Claim Details: Type in your Particulars of Claim. See here:

5. Money Claim On-Line (MCOL) Particulars of Claim

 

Click No to Human Rights and Yes to claiming interest.

 

If you have already included the s69 paragraph in your POC’s, you can ignore the pop-up. Otherwise enter this now and fill in the first and last dates of your charges and the s69 8% interest total.

 

 

does any of that ring a bell - do you remember what you did?

[jox74]

Distinctly remember not ticking the interest box.

 

I had ummed and ahhed about this when doing my claim, but as I didn't have the first clue how to claim the interest (before finding this site), and as I really wanted to get my claim going I thought it would just be easier not to.

 

I've since done the excel calculation sheet - although it was a little while after my claim, and I know it calculation works from the day it is opened, so assume the version I've got (with the 8% added) wouldn't tally with the claim anyway!

 

Hey ho, while frustrating, I guess there is nothing that can be done on that now - I'll just make sure that other people I know who are looking to claim know about this site.

[lateralus]

i'm taking it under advisement - try not to stress out over it - it might work out ok. like arnie - i'll be back!

[jox74]

Cheers Lateralus - you're a star!

[jox74]

Morning!!

 

The sunshine, and a letter from the court woke me today. Lovely!

 

Having been reading the court bundles for dummies thread I thought I'd set out details in the letter, as suggested.

 

 

GENERAL FORM OF JUDGEMENT OR ORDER

Upon reading the court file

 

it is ordered that

 

1 claimant do by 4.00pm on 24 July2007 file and serve a schedule specifying each and every item in dispute

 

2 defendant do by 1 august 2007 file and serve a schedule showing how each item in dispute is calculated and the legal basis for the charge

 

I got a little excited, in the hope that this was a direction for my court bundle, but on second reading think I jumped the gun....aren't they just asking for another copy of my schedule of charges?!

 

btw this is from Luton County Court - anyone else have any experience of doing this in Luton?

[lateralus]

it's very good news and i'll tell you why - since we are a tad worried about the 8% interest - this gives us the opening we need to make sure you get it.

(as for the particulars - i asked hagenuk - and here's what he said - just so you know: i asked:if a claimant doesn't specify s.69 or mention interest in the poc's would the court give them anyway and would they still go after them through the bank's solicitor or would the poc's need to be amended.... he responded: strictly the claimant should fully particularise their claim, the right to interest is not absolute nor automatic, however, I would suspect that if this is a bank claim then interest will be awarded "as a matter of course" but only at the statutory rate, 8%.

At the point the bank (or their solicitors) settle then the claimant should raise the matter of the amount claimed, plus interest. Just out of curiosity, why did the PoC not include interest? and i told him it was from following bbc format.

so, that should set your mind at rest on that.

 

now, back to those directions -

take a look at your schedule of charges -

you want to make sure that you have all the charges listed - oldest first through to newest - (still none you didn't claim originally) and EACH charge must have the date, the name of the charge (as it appears on the statements - i.e. "charges" would be incorrect but "Total Charges" is fine) and the amount of each charge.

 

then at the botton i would put:

 

THE TOTAL OF THE CLAIM IS:

£XXXX.XX CHARGES

£ XXX.XX 8% INTEREST

£ XXX.XX COURT FILING FEE

TOTAL £xxxx.xx

 

 

that didn't line up right - but you get the idea.

so get it done - looking lovely, including interest and any costs

and send it to both the court and to dg. include a cover note telling them you are responding to court directions. and turn your one to dg into nudge by adding the stuff from the nudge letters.

[jox74]

Excellent.

 

So, I've done as you suggested and worked out the 8% interest (as of my date of claim - which means I worked out how to change the date on my computer!). The interest (£438.76), plus my filing fee (£120), added to the original claim of £2,995 in charges, comes to £3,553.76.

 

Ok, so having taken that very sound advice, I've drafted the attached letter to DG (using the higher figure) ....do you think it's ok?

 

 

For your records I enclose a copy of my letter, dated 14 July 07, to Luton County Court, in response to their ‘General Form of Judgment or Order’ letter, dated 10 July 07, requesting a full schedule of the items disputed in my claim. Enclosed with this letter is a copy of my schedule of charges.

Additionally, it has come to my attention in my Notice of Transfer of Proceedings letter dated 22 June 07, an Allocation Questionnaire may not be required in this case.

 

However, the Court has confirmed that the allocation fee of £100 remains payable. As this will form part of my costs, should I win this case, this cost would then be transferred to you. So as to avoid this additional cost, it would be beneficial to both sides to speedily resolve this case.

 

I am also mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing, and so in order to resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £3,553. I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

 

Cheers!!

[freakyleaky]

The letter is perfect Jo!

[lateralus]

i'd make one change to it - i'd put where you say how much you will accept - i'd say I am willing to accept the sum of £2,995 for the charges and £438.76 for the 8% interest, plus £120. for the court filing fee bringing the total of my claim and the total I would accept in settlement: £3,553.

other than that one change - it's brill.

[freakyleaky]

There you go Jo! It was almost perfect!

[jox74]

Thank you both! I'll make the changes and send it off.

 

D'you know...I think this forum might be restoring my faith in humankind!

[jox74]

PS. I hope you are having a more fun filled Saturday night than I am - sitting in front of my computer!!

 

 

That said, I'm off for a nice, chilled glass of Reisling, of which I'll raise a glass to you two!

[lateralus]

i never even saw this til this morning - i was doing my usual saturday night in the pub! except we paid £3 each for a very crap queen tribute band which turned out to be a very aged freddy m. (probably just about what he would look like today) doing queen songs on karoake! not a pretty sight!