Consumer Credit Agreement

[bracknellboy]

Hi

 

Can anyone tell me what a consumer credit agreement looks like?

 

Thanks

[PriorityOne]

Have you been sent one by a DCA or something ?

[bracknellboy]

no but i have requested one but dont really know what a properly executed one looks like.

[rory32]

Best thing to do is scan it in if you get one. Most of what a properly executed agreement looks like is covered by sections 60 and 61(1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, there are other sections which are pertinent.

[lookinforinfo]

If you go to this site and fill out your details, they will confirm whether it is

the executed agreement or not. That's assuming they send anything at all.

 

https://www.financialagreementsolutions.co.uk/usr/basicchecker.aspx

[bracknellboy]

Hi Just had a letter back from a DCA who says that the creditor is unable to supply a CCA due to the length of time! They have supplied me with a statment which is well out of date, and put a default on my credit file along with the original lender, now what do I do?

[rory32]

You should really start your own thread on this bracknellboy.

 

However, what you will want them to do is

(1) right off the debt

(2) remove all reference of the account including the default from your credit file.

 

If you start you're own thread and post a link I will comment further.

[bracknellboy]

Thanks Rory,

 

Thought I had started my own thread on this, maybe I've done something wrong here?

[lemma1968]

You have.

 

Maybe the title is not clear enough to show you actually have an ongoing dispute ? In any case, Rory is great and will assist.

[lookinforinfo]

Bracknellboy, you might find that when you contribute to threads as often as

Rory and myself that we forget who started what thread.

 

 

I am assured that he drinks nothing stronger than tea.

[rory32]

I am assured that he drinks nothing stronger than tea.:grin:

Then you would be very wrong LFI

 

I just don't drink and post.

 

But I would agree with LFI, we do get occassionally confused with threads and who started what. Best bet is just to remind us cos I just looked at post#1 (twit that I am).

[lookinforinfo]

Then you would be very wrong LFI

 

 

You see, I said we get confused.

[bracknellboy]

thanks folks thought I was my thread:)

[rory32]

As they can't supply the copy of the agreement and a happy to admit this you really now want some closure on this matter. This requires giving them a little push in the right direction. The letter below demonstrates what I mean, although you will have to adapt it to your situation. I must stress that it is unlikely that you will receive any money back - the purpose of the letter is meerly to demonstrate that it is not in their best interests to attempt to pursue the account.

 

I refer to my letter dated {enter date} which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on {enter delivery date}.

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the letter or by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

 

In my letter of the {enter date} I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time {debt agency name} purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on {enter date} and {enter date} respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on {enter offence date} this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, I do not acknowledge any debt to {debt agency name}.

 

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

 

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

 

2. Removal of all defaults entered by {debt agency name}. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

 

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

 

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

[Penfold92]

As they can't supply the copy of the agreement and a happy to admit this you really now want some closure on this matter. This requires giving them a little push in the right direction.

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the letter or by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

 

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

 

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

 

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

 

Hi Rory,

 

The above is amazing...I have been asking this question on here for sometime with no-one giving me a straight answer. So are you saying that if the CCA request is no fulfilled then full refund of any monies paid is a fair request? My thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/86403-statute-limitations-banks-word.html) has asked this question with a old Woolwich account. I agree completely that if no evidence of the debt can be proved then whether there is acknowledgement of the debt via payments or not this does not constitute that you agree with the amount. If the amount cannot then be proved or evidenced then the Bank falls flat on its face in court with nothing at all... Are you saying then that this is not just a breach of the CCA, but also Data Protection? Or is that because of the default in this case?

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[rory32]

First of all Penfold it is highly unlikely that you would get your money back. The court nearly always rules that you paid the money voluntarily and are not entitled to it back. The Data Protection breach is due to not having the copy of the agreement, in other words they can not show that they had consent to process your personal info.

 

The purpose of the letter is to reach a compromise position. That compromise being the bank close the account, remove all adverse info from your credit file and forget about you. In return you will forget about them.

[Penfold92]

First of all Penfold it is highly unlikely that you would get your money back. The court nearly always rules that you paid the money voluntarily and are not entitled to it back.

 

Because payments are made monthly does not mean they are voluntary. Also if you are being pursued and told this is what you owe, especially at a young age you may not always check the exact details and just be happy a Bank is off your case. Does this mean they do not have a liability to ensure the facts are correct and documented accordingly?

 

The Data Protection breach is due to not having the copy of the agreement, in other words they can not show that they had consent to process your personal info.

 

I am confused because I thought not having the contract or agreement was a breach of CCA not data protection? I feel the bigger issue about the contract/ agreement is the fact that if this does not exist along with proof of the debt then the debt does not exist and surely a Judge cannot say "well you made the payments so tough luck..." It can be argued that there is a trust between customer and bank and this remians until an element of doubt arises. This whole unfair charges etc has brought this about and as a result I want to check the banks debt records. oops they do not hold any.

 

This is not about morals, but a Legal Issue no-one can claim you owe them money and take it off you without proving it if requested. The fact I have taken my time to challenge it is irrelevant as there is no legislation that says you must question your debt within a certain timescale is there?

 

So if no debt can be proved then they must repay that money back as they had no right to claim it off you in the first place. There is no legislation in place that says data must be destroyed after 6 years. This is a common misinterpretation of the Data Protection Act and live or active data should in fact not be destroyed as this can be used to evidence all sorts of things.

 

The banks are in trouble once more I'm afraid due to their over zealous administration...IMHO of course

 

Thanks Penfold

[rory32]

Penfold you seem to be getting confused. Not having a copy of the agreement breaches the Consumer Credit Act. Not having a document which gives your permission to process your data (in this case this would be a true copy of the agreement) breaches The Data Protection Act.

[tomterm8]

Because payments are made monthly does not mean they are voluntary. Also if you are being pursued and told this is what you owe, especially at a young age you may not always check the exact details and just be happy a Bank is off your case. Does this mean they do not have a liability to ensure the facts are correct and documented accordingly?

As far as a court is concerned, any payment made except under illegitimate duress or a court order is voluntary. (The duress would be illegitimate if the creditor was aware the debt was unenforceable, and continued to pursue the debt without informing you; BUT try proving that in a court:( )

 

 

I am confused because I thought not having the contract or agreement was a breach of CCA not data protection?

 

A information breach under the CCA is also a breach of Data Protection under the DPA 1998; this provides for civil damages, whereas the CCA does not.

 

I feel the bigger issue about the contract/ agreement is the fact that if this does not exist along with proof of the debt then the debt does not exist and surely a Judge cannot say "well you made the payments so tough luck..." It can be argued that there is a trust between customer and bank and this remians until an element of doubt arises. This whole unfair charges etc has brought this about and as a result I want to check the banks debt records. oops they do not hold any.

 

The courts will let the estate fall where it may, in the assumption that there WAS a valid agreement, and without being able to see what the terms were. Unfair, maybe, but that is what the law generally suggests in such a case. only exception is where you can prove the contract was VOID, i.e. improperly executed or unexecuted.

 

This is not about morals, but a Legal Issue no-one can claim you owe them money and take it off you without proving it if requested. The fact I have taken my time to challenge it is irrelevant as there is no legislation that says you must question your debt within a certain timescale is there?

 

You are not obliged to pay further, but unless you can prove the debt was never enforceable you will not get the money you paid back.

So if no debt can be proved then they must repay that money back as they had no right to claim it off you in the first place. There is no legislation in place that says data must be destroyed after 6 years. This is a common misinterpretation of the Data Protection Act and live or active data should in fact not be destroyed as this can be used to evidence all sorts of things.

 

To be exact, the credit agreement must remain intact while there is any amount outstanding. that's the effect of CCA 1974, and the fact that each time they fail to supply they make a new breach of the Data protection duties.

 

Thanks Penfold

 

Hope this helps.

[rory32]

And just to add to tomterm8's last point the copy of the agreement should be kept for 6 years after the closure of the account. This IS contained in legislation.

[Penfold92]

And just to add to tomterm8's last point the copy of the agreement should be kept for 6 years after the closure of the account. This IS contained in legislation.

 

Thanks for these posts guys. If someone was to take it far enough would they really go to Court to find out? Also I know the above is in the DPA, however, is an account with a reducing balance a closed account? That is the question I was raising.

 

Penfold

[tomterm8]

Thanks for these posts guys. If someone was to take it far enough would they really go to Court to find out? Also I know the above is in the Data Protection Act, however, is an account with a reducing balance a closed account? That is the question I was raising.

 

Penfold

 

If the account has any money due, then they MUST furnish the credit agreement on request and payment of the statutory fee. they would only be entitled to enforce the debt on the production of a valid credit agreement, (as long as it was made before april of this year).

 

Once it's gone to court, that changes because the agreement is terminated.

 

the fact that the account is closed from the viewpoint of the bank DOES NOT make a difference.

[Penfold92]

Thanks that is my point exactly. Does anyone know how to research historical judgments regarding debt? I would be very curious to see if any cases have gone to court similar to this.

 

Penfold

[bracknellboy]

Hi Again,

 

I have just had a threatening letter from Aktiv Kapitol who say they are now going to take legal proceeedings against me, despite them admitting that they do not have and can not obtain the original credit agreement, what should I reply?

 

Any assistance would be gratefully received.

[lookinforinfo]

I think they are just trying to frighten you. They know they have not a

snowball in Hells' chance of winning so would not waste money taking it to Court.

You can either ignore it or write to them along the lines of.............

you must be aware that the debt is totally unenforceable without the original

agreement. Should you persist in your threats, I will advise Trading Standards

that I am being harassed by you, and your ignorance of the Law is such that

I will question your ability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

Personally, I would ignore the letter. However, were they to write a second

or even third threatening letter, then I would complain to Trading Standards

since I would have more ammunition.